First nationally televised third party debates

[Grizalltheway]

Are you saying his positions have "evolved"?

Glacially. But I'd still vote for him over Trump.

Cone to think of it, I'd vote for you over Trump!

#NeverTrump

My first endorsement! Nice!

[Ibanez]

libertarians are fine, Libertarians suck

[BDKJMU]

Article mentioned what Johnson would do about "immigrants", but didn't say whether that was illegal or legal, which is night and day..

Q: What is your view of the immigration issue?
A: Hispanics who immigrate care about their families like other Americans care about their families. They're living in poverty in Mexico and can come to the US and do a lot better.

Q: By--according to some--taking away jobs.
A: They work the lowest-paying jobs. And they are taking jobs that other Americans don't necessarily want. They're hardworking people who are taking jobs that others don't want. That's the reality.

Q: Would you open the borders and make it easier to immigrate legally?
A: My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders.

Q: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
A: They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Gary_Jo ... ration.htm

No the reality is we have 90+ million out of the work force,
Millions have the choice of do those or sit at home and earn the equivalent in unemployment and welfare bennies. So of course they choose the latter. Take away the disencentives to work and if the choice is do thise jobs or go homeless, starve, they will choose the former. there woukd be plenty of American citizens to do thise jobs.

Open borders = no borders at all. Mass amnesty for 12-20 million law breakers . Tens of millions more of 2nd-3rd world filthy hordes invading the country (including those who would thrive on a life if crime and some terrorists thrown in to boot). No thanks.

No way in hell I'd vote for a guy advocating that.

[Ibanez]

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Gary_Jo ... ration.htm

No the reality is we have 90+ million out of the work force,
Millions have the choice of do those or sit at home and earn the equivalent in unemployment and welfare bennies. So of course they choose the latter. Take away the disencentives to work and if the choice is do thise jobs or go homeless, starve, they will choose the former. there woukd be plenty of American citizens to do thise jobs.

Open borders = no borders at all. Mass amnesty for 12-20 million law breakers . Tens of millions more of 2nd-3rd world filthy hordes invading the country (including those who would thrive on a life if crime and some terrorists thrown in to boot). No thanks.

No way in hell I'd vote for a guy advocating that.

So, what? You're going to round up 12 million illegal aliens and deport them?

Would it not be wiser to tell them that they have 1 year to come out of the shadows, get registered with the Gov't and work on a pathway towards citizenship?

Get registered, get a tax id number and part of your taxes will be paying off a fine for illegally entering the country. But once that fine is paid, you are able to become a full fledged citizen and enjoy (legally) the benefits of other taxpayers?

At the same time, we ENFORCE our immigration laws and anyone caught after that 1 year mark is automatically deported. If you want to come to the US, that's fine, but do it legally.

[Skjellyfetti]

No the reality is we have 90+ million out of the work force

How many of those are retired? About half?

Round up all the old, retired people and send them to pick lettuce in Arizona and there's no more shortage. You're right.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

The paradox I face is that though I'm a Libertarian I rarely have Libertarian candidates I can vote for because the Libertarian Party platform takes a "pro choice" position and most of the time Libertarian candidates go with that. I could deal with Ron Paul's position. His position is that the issue should be left to the States. I think that's the correct position.

But Gary Johnson has taken that inane "viability" position. Can't vote for him.

Really? So after ALL your spouting off and drivel, you're really just a single issue (and STUPID issue at that) voter?

Great call out. He's a real full of shit fella.

[CID1990]

Article mentioned what Johnson would do about "immigrants", but didn't say whether that was illegal or legal, which is night and day..

Q: What is your view of the immigration issue?
A: Hispanics who immigrate care about their families like other Americans care about their families. They're living in poverty in Mexico and can come to the US and do a lot better.

Q: By--according to some--taking away jobs.
A: They work the lowest-paying jobs. And they are taking jobs that other Americans don't necessarily want. They're hardworking people who are taking jobs that others don't want. That's the reality.

Q: Would you open the borders and make it easier to immigrate legally?
A: My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders.

Q: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
A: They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Gary_Jo ... ration.htm

well this once again proves you're competent with Google but not so much with context or substance

there's another side Libertarianism's "open borders", and that is "free markets".

That means unregulated, unfettered, FREE markets. The free market in its pure form will naturally regulate immigration because our system will have no draws for immigrants other than a job (in other words, no healthcare, no safety net, nothing). Job market saturation, regulated solely by the laws of supply and demand, will be its own "border fence".

I doubt you'd be quite so thumbs up if you did anything more than stop reading at Gary's open borders policy

[dbackjon]

Are you saying his positions have "evolved"?

Glacially. But I'd still vote for him over Trump.

Cone to think of it, I'd vote for you over Trump!

#NeverTrump

But would you vote for ME over Trump?

[89Hen]

Glacially. But I'd still vote for him over Trump.

Cone to think of it, I'd vote for you over Trump!

#NeverTrump

But would you vote for ME over Trump?

I'd bet you would actually resolve a lot of issue.

[BDKJMU]

No the reality is we have 90+ million out of the work force,
Millions have the choice of do those or sit at home and earn the equivalent in unemployment and welfare bennies. So of course they choose the latter. Take away the disencentives to work and if the choice is do thise jobs or go homeless, starve, they will choose the former. there woukd be plenty of American citizens to do thise jobs.

Open borders = no borders at all. Mass amnesty for 12-20 million law breakers . Tens of millions more of 2nd-3rd world filthy hordes invading the country (including those who would thrive on a life if crime and some terrorists thrown in to boot). No thanks.

No way in hell I'd vote for a guy advocating that.

So, what? You're going to round up 12 million illegal aliens and deport them?

Would it not be wiser to tell them that they have 1 year to come out of the shadows, get registered with the Gov't and work on a pathway towards citizenship?

Get registered, get a tax id number and part of your taxes will be paying off a fine for illegally entering the country. But once that fine is paid, you are able to become a full fledged citizen and enjoy (legally) the benefits of other taxpayers?

At the same time, we ENFORCE our immigration laws and anyone caught after that 1 year mark is automatically deported. If you want to come to the US, that's fine, but do it legally.

With the technology of today you don't think we could figure out who was here illegally and deport the majority of them? Heck, in the 1950s during Operation Wetback a few hundred Border Patrol agents deported several million illegals.

But we wouldn't need to.
-Get 99% control of the border (I realize 100% not really possible)
- Establish a visa entry exit tracking program (there currently isn't one) so we know who has come into the country and who has left.

At the same time:
-Establish a reliable employer verification system so employers do have excuses for hiring large #s of illegals.
-Establish heavy fines for employers who hire illegals.
-Cut back on welfare, unemployment and other disencentives for American citizens to take low paying jobs largely filled by Illegals.
-Do all that and a lot (but not all) of the illegals would leave on their own (Romneys self deport).

The # of illegals coming here annually (both border crossers and visa overstays) could be slowed to a fraction of what it is now. As far as the million+ that currently legally, permanently immigrate annually, whatever the # should be, it should be changed to be limited to:
-By marriage
-those with advanced degrees and/or highly skilled
-high net worths.
No more lottery for people from 2nd-3rd world countries and refugees. Those people do nothing for us unkess they are highly educated, highly slilled ir have lots of $$$.

-Could establish a program for several million SEASONAL foreign workers. They come, do their work for 3-6 months, then leave.

-Crossing the border illegally or remaing illegally & then having an anchor baby shouldn't be a automatic right to stay. Parents can be deported. That isn't deporting the child. The parent(s) can take their kid with them and when the child is 18 he/she can come to the US on their own if they wish. Or if available and they want to could leave the child with a relative or guardian who is a citizen or legal permanent resident.

As far as a pathway citizenship for those already here, that would be rewarding lawbreaking to people who have either entered the country illegally or remained illegally (visa overstay) been working illegally, often while illgeally using fradulent docs, often on stolen identities (a felony). It also would be patently unfair to those who have come here legally and been waiting in line, and to millions of others who would want to come here legally, many of whom won't ever be able to do so.

[Ibanez]

So, what? You're going to round up 12 million illegal aliens and deport them?

Would it not be wiser to tell them that they have 1 year to come out of the shadows, get registered with the Gov't and work on a pathway towards citizenship?

Get registered, get a tax id number and part of your taxes will be paying off a fine for illegally entering the country. But once that fine is paid, you are able to become a full fledged citizen and enjoy (legally) the benefits of other taxpayers?

At the same time, we ENFORCE our immigration laws and anyone caught after that 1 year mark is automatically deported. If you want to come to the US, that's fine, but do it legally.

So, no response?

[BDKJMU]

So, no response?

Look up. I was trying to fix my post.

[Ibanez]

So, what? You're going to round up 12 million illegal aliens and deport them?

Would it not be wiser to tell them that they have 1 year to come out of the shadows, get registered with the Gov't and work on a pathway towards citizenship?

Get registered, get a tax id number and part of your taxes will be paying off a fine for illegally entering the country. But once that fine is paid, you are able to become a full fledged citizen and enjoy (legally) the benefits of other taxpayers?

At the same time, we ENFORCE our immigration laws and anyone caught after that 1 year mark is automatically deported. If you want to come to the US, that's fine, but do it legally.

As far as a pathway citizenship for those already here, that would be rewarding lawbreaking to people who have either entered the country illegally or remained illegally (visa overstay) been working illegally, often while illgeally using fradulent docs, often on stolen identities (a felony). It also would be patently unfair to those who have come here legally and been waiting in line, and to millions of others who would want to come here legally, many of whom won't ever be able to do so.

So...you want round up 12 million illegal aliens. Got it. Good luck with that.

[DSUrocks07]

So, what? You're going to round up 12 million illegal aliens and deport them?

Would it not be wiser to tell them that they have 1 year to come out of the shadows, get registered with the Gov't and work on a pathway towards citizenship?

Get registered, get a tax id number and part of your taxes will be paying off a fine for illegally entering the country. But once that fine is paid, you are able to become a full fledged citizen and enjoy (legally) the benefits of other taxpayers?

At the same time, we ENFORCE our immigration laws and anyone caught after that 1 year mark is automatically deported. If you want to come to the US, that's fine, but do it legally.

With the technology of today you don't think we could figure out who was here illegally and deport the majority of them? Heck, in the 1950s during Operation Wetback a few hundred Border Patrol agents deported several million illegals.

But we wouldn't need to.
-Get 99% control of the border (I realize 100% not really possible)
- Establish a visa entry exit tracking program (there currently isn't one) so we know who has come into the country and who has left.

At the same time:
-Establish a reliable employer verification system so employers do have excuses for hiring large #s of illegals.
-Establish heavy fines for employers who hire illegals.
-Cut back on welfare, unemployment and other disencentives for American citizens to take low paying jobs largely filled by Illegals.
-In addition to close to a million illegal immigration coming here annually.
Do all that and a lot (but not all) of the illegals would leave on their own (Romneys self deport).

The # of illegals coming here annually (both border crossers and visa overstays) could be slowed to a fraction of what it is now. As far as the million+ that currently legally, permanently immigrate annually, whatever the # should be, it should be changed to be limited to:
-By marriage
-those with advanced degrees and/or highly skilled
-high net worths.
No more lottery for people from 2nd-3rd world countries and refugees. Those people do nothing for us unkess they are highly educated, highly slilled ir have lots of $$$.

-Could establish a program for several million SEASONAL foreign workers. They come, do their work for 3-6 months, then leave.

-Crossing the border illegally or remaing illegally & then having an anchor baby shouldn't be a automatic right to stay. Parents can be deported. That isn't deporting the child. The parent(s) can take their kid with them and when the child is 18 he/she can come to the US on their own if they wish. Or if available and they want to could leave the child with a relative or guardian who is a citizen or legal permanent resident.

As far as a pathway citizenship for those already here, that would be rewarding lawbreaking to people who have either entered the country illegally or remained illegally (visa overstay) been working illegally, often while illgeally using fradulent docs, often on stolen identities (a felony). It also would be patently unfair to those who have come here legally and been waiting in line, and to millions of others who would want to come here legally, many of whom won't ever be able to do so.

I like a lot of these ideas...and a LOT more in depth than just "round up 12 million and kick them out", Ibanez

[Ivytalk]

Glacially. But I'd still vote for him over Trump.

Cone to think of it, I'd vote for you over Trump!

#NeverTrump

But would you vote for ME over Trump?

Sure. At least you wouldn't be bragging about all the hot married women you'd bedded down over the years!

[Ibanez]

With the technology of today you don't think we could figure out who was here illegally and deport the majority of them? Heck, in the 1950s during Operation Wetback a few hundred Border Patrol agents deported several million illegals.

But we wouldn't need to.
-Get 99% control of the border (I realize 100% not really possible)
- Establish a visa entry exit tracking program (there currently isn't one) so we know who has come into the country and who has left.

At the same time:
-Establish a reliable employer verification system so employers do have excuses for hiring large #s of illegals.
-Establish heavy fines for employers who hire illegals.
-Cut back on welfare, unemployment and other disencentives for American citizens to take low paying jobs largely filled by Illegals.
-In addition to close to a million illegal immigration coming here annually.
Do all that and a lot (but not all) of the illegals would leave on their own (Romneys self deport).

The # of illegals coming here annually (both border crossers and visa overstays) could be slowed to a fraction of what it is now. As far as the million+ that currently legally, permanently immigrate annually, whatever the # should be, it should be changed to be limited to:
-By marriage
-those with advanced degrees and/or highly skilled
-high net worths.
No more lottery for people from 2nd-3rd world countries and refugees. Those people do nothing for us unkess they are highly educated, highly slilled ir have lots of $$$.

-Could establish a program for several million SEASONAL foreign workers. They come, do their work for 3-6 months, then leave.

-Crossing the border illegally or remaing illegally & then having an anchor baby shouldn't be a automatic right to stay. Parents can be deported. That isn't deporting the child. The parent(s) can take their kid with them and when the child is 18 he/she can come to the US on their own if they wish. Or if available and they want to could leave the child with a relative or guardian who is a citizen or legal permanent resident.

As far as a pathway citizenship for those already here, that would be rewarding lawbreaking to people who have either entered the country illegally or remained illegally (visa overstay) been working illegally, often while illgeally using fradulent docs, often on stolen identities (a felony). It also would be patently unfair to those who have come here legally and been waiting in line, and to millions of others who would want to come here legally, many of whom won't ever be able to do so.

I like a lot of these ideas...and a LOT more in depth than just "round up 12 million and kick them out", Ibanez

I have no problem with them. But, he didn't address the issue of the illegals that are in the country.

[DSUrocks07]

I like a lot of these ideas...and a LOT more in depth than just "round up 12 million and kick them out", Ibanez

I have no problem with them. But, he didn't address the issue of the illegals that are in the country.

you mean the whole section after the "At the same time:"

that seemed like a through explanation to me. especially the first two. Employment is the biggest draw. Tracking and fining who is employing illegals is an excellent start.

(which, in context, actually goes towards the thought that the Establishment as a whole really WANTS to have illegal immigration. Not "just the libs".)

[Ibanez]

I have no problem with them. But, he didn't address the issue of the illegals that are in the country.

you mean the whole section after the "At the same time:"

that seemed like a through explanation to me. especially the first two. Employment is the biggest draw. Tracking and fining who is employing illegals is an excellent start.

(which, in context, actually goes towards the thought that the Establishment as a whole really WANTS to have illegal immigration. Not "just the libs".)

I keep missing that section.

[DSUrocks07]

you mean the whole section after the "At the same time:"

that seemed like a through explanation to me. especially the first two. Employment is the biggest draw. Tracking and fining who is employing illegals is an excellent start.

(which, in context, actually goes towards the thought that the Establishment as a whole really WANTS to have illegal immigration. Not "just the libs".)

I keep missing that section.

it is a JSO style wall of text

[AZGrizFan]

I keep missing that section.

it is a JSO style wall of text