FUCK MISSISIPPI GOP, and FUCK EVANGELICALS

[kalm]

What about in the case of a national monopoly?

That would take some massive coordination, effort, and bucks.

National monopoly? We're talking bakeries. A fucking cake! It's been whittled down to a family bakery. Who cares if a handful of bakeries in the US don't want to make money off someone?

So it's ok for insignificant businesses to discriminate, but just them?

[andy7171]

National monopoly? We're talking bakeries. A fucking cake! It's been whittled down to a family bakery. Who cares if a handful of bakeries in the US don't want to make money off someone?

So it's ok for insignificant businesses to discriminate, but just them?

If discriminate means losing money, who gives a fuck? Are they gaining an advantage by doing so?

[kalm]

So it's ok for insignificant businesses to discriminate, but just them?

If discriminate means losing money, who gives a fuck? Are they gaining an advantage by doing so?

You didn't answer the question.

[andy7171]

No. Everyone should be allowed to lose money as they choose.

[kalm]

No. Everyone should be allowed to lose money as they choose.

At least you're consistent.

[CAA Flagship]

What if a muslin wanted to buy a bucket of nails and tannerite?

[andy7171]

What if a muslin wanted to buy a bucket of nails and tannerite?

CRUCIFY HIM!

[Chizzang]

First of all - its an elaborate ruse...
This ^ ENTIRE situation between homosexuals and Fundamentalists

Frankly its an idiots race to see who can be the most offended by the stupidest possible outcome
AND
The amount of hypothetical nonsense required to get to the end-game
in this ridiculous charade would make Rube Goldberg blush

Nobody enjoys piling-on the idiot Fundamentalist hypocrites MORE THAN I DO...!!!
But for the love of Pete leave them alone
Why would you want to do business with somebody who doesn't want to do business with you..?

I know the answer:
You wouldn't - The end... Move along
Buy your cake from the grocery store and order your gay topper from Amazon
and be done with it...

Again, that makes sense as long as you have those choices. But what happens in the case of large scale monopolies? What if you live in a small town with one bakery?

Again, like I said in my post
You're playing this down to the dumbest possible outcome
all whilst desperately trying to be "THE" most offended of the two perpetually offended groups involved

re-read my original post:

[GannonFan]

I find it hard to see how people can truly defend laws like this. If you have a business that's open to the public, then you have to be able to sell to everyone. If you don't want to be involved in a lifestyle or group of people you don't like for whatever reason, either don't open the business in the first place or restrict yourself in other ways. You want to have a bakery but don't agree with gay marriage, that's fine, just advertise that you don't do weddings, period (and then, don't do weddings). Plenty of bakeries exist and make plenty of money without being places that also do wedding cakes. If you don't want to deal with minorities or lifestyle groups you don't agree with but still want a business, operate out of your house and only deal with people you actually know rather than the public at large, i.e. keep it as a hobby business and nothing more. Otherwise, if you open your doors to the public then you need to deal with the public, no matter who they are.

[andy7171]

What is a company town?

[kalm]

Again, that makes sense as long as you have those choices. But what happens in the case of large scale monopolies? What if you live in a small town with one bakery?

Again, like I said in my post
You're playing this down to the dumbest possible outcome
all whilst desperately trying to be "THE" most offended of the two perpetually offended groups involved

re-read my original post:

I don't have skin in this game (no homo). While JSO's and your point are intriguing, I'm just trying to play out the consequences and provide a reason why it might be society's interest to require a business to not discriminate.

It's a long thread so why don't you quote your original post.

Also...what Ganny just said.

[Chizzang]

Again, like I said in my post
You're playing this down to the dumbest possible outcome
all whilst desperately trying to be "THE" most offended of the two perpetually offended groups involved

re-read my original post:

I don't have skin in this game (no homo). While JSO's and your point are intriguing, I'm just trying to play out the consequences and provide a reason why it might be society's interest to require a business to not discriminate.

It's a long thread so why don't you quote your original post.

Also...what Ganny just said.

Fundamentalist Religion - in its most distilled form - is Bigotry...
and
Bigotry and pathological "isms" (Sexism / Racism / etc.)
cannot be legislated OUT of peoples minds

Fundamentalists will fight with their last dying breath
to keep this world in a state of perpetual fear and hatred
through ancient text and iron age ignorance

its what fear and hatred do... (see: Islam)

The way you defeat those things is through enlightened responses
Not Hate-on-Hate battles of equal portions making both sides appear insane

In America the Religious Fundies are desperate for a seat at the big-boy table
Adults typically do not actively engage in arguments with 4 year old children

Which is where D-back has taken this debate...
Whoever takes the high ground and least emotional ground will win this

[89Hen]

If you don't want to deal with minorities or lifestyle groups you don't agree with but still want a business, operate out of your house and only deal with people you actually know rather than the public at large, i.e. keep it as a hobby business and nothing more. Otherwise, if you open your doors to the public then you need to deal with the public, no matter who they are.

Why would it be OK to discriminate if your business is smaller? If you have a business license, you have a business license.

[YoUDeeMan]

If you don't want to deal with minorities or lifestyle groups you don't agree with but still want a business, operate out of your house and only deal with people you actually know rather than the public at large, i.e. keep it as a hobby business and nothing more. Otherwise, if you open your doors to the public then you need to deal with the public, no matter who they are.

Why would it be OK to discriminate if your business is smaller? If you have a business license, you have a business license.

Private clubs discriminate.

Bars discriminate (Ladies' night).

Governments discriminate (setting aside contracts for minority owned companies).

Universities/Schools, both public and private, discriminate (race quotas, goals).

Minority businesses discriminate (see examples in other posts).

Churches discriminate.

Small businesses discriminate (you can basically hire anyone you want if you are a family owned business).

Discrimination is all around...and many examples are willfully accepted (see defense of, and non-answers to, above examples), while others draw fake, hypocritical scorn.

It should be either all or nothing regarding discrimination...but we don't have that, do we?

[andy7171]

You didn't answer the question.

What is a company town?

[89Hen]

Why would it be OK to discriminate if your business is smaller? If you have a business license, you have a business license.

It should be either all or nothing regarding discrimination...but we don't have that, do we?

Yup.

[Chizzang]

It should be either all or nothing regarding discrimination...but we don't have that, do we?

Yup.

discrimination can not actually "be legislated"
Kinda like trying to identify a "hate crime"

What is in the minds of men is ether and shadow
and it can't be tracked or monitored or enforced

[89Hen]

Yup.

discrimination can not actually "be legislated"
Kinda like trying to identify a "hate crime"

What is in the minds of men is ether and shadow
and it can't be tracked or monitored or enforced

So you're in favor of no laws concerning discrimination.

[JohnStOnge]

I want to make sure you aren't using the Declaration of Independence for anything other than what it is: an 18th Century "Dear John" letter to King George.

The Declaration of Independence is this nation's founding document. It is the document that declares the general principles. The Constitution is not. It is a Standard Operation Procedure. The Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, represents the "soul" of the nation to be established.

[JohnStOnge]

If you have a business that's open to the public, then you have to be able to sell to everyone.

Only because we have accepted the premise that government can and should compel that. It is private activity. It involves private interactions. We have accepted government powers we should not have accepted. You should not have to agree to sacrifice your right to choose who you will engage in commerce with in order to be in private business. It's PRIVATE business.

[BDKJMU]

To hold a competition for black women is not that same as saying that only white people can enter a business. It's like comparing miss america pageants to some club that only allows men. They aren't the same.

Who said anything about simply entering a place?

JSO was talking about being FORCED to offer their business services to everyone. So a gay person can FORCE a business to make the gay person a cake, but a White person can't FORCE the Black business to allow the White person to enter their contest (which is a business)?

And in your club example...so a business can discriminate based upon gender...but not race? That is OK?

Simple solution- the fags might be able to force the devout christian baker to bake a "cake". But that baker can bake a "cake" that is a pile of slop.

[Chizzang]

discrimination can not actually "be legislated"
Kinda like trying to identify a "hate crime"

What is in the minds of men is ether and shadow
and it can't be tracked or monitored or enforced

So you're in favor of no laws concerning discrimination.

Meh..
I think discrimination laws are just more meaningless legislation
piled on top of other meaningless legislation...



I'm not for them or against them... it's just static in the background of my life
I'm white / Straight / Male so I have the luxury of not really giving a f*ck

[GannonFan]

If you don't want to deal with minorities or lifestyle groups you don't agree with but still want a business, operate out of your house and only deal with people you actually know rather than the public at large, i.e. keep it as a hobby business and nothing more. Otherwise, if you open your doors to the public then you need to deal with the public, no matter who they are.

Why would it be OK to discriminate if your business is smaller? If you have a business license, you have a business license.

I didn't mean to imply size of business matters. What I was referring to is the person who, say, likes to take photographs, for instance, and would do that job for pay from family, friends, and friends of family. If you want to do something in your small circle of friends and get paid for it, but don't want to do the same for anyone who came up to ask you about it, then just stick to your friends and families and close acquaintances. If you want to hang a shingle out your door and say open for business and you want people to find you and solicit your business, then you need to accept those people may have different skin color or like to kiss people of the same gender or may not even know what gender they are.

[GannonFan]

If you have a business that's open to the public, then you have to be able to sell to everyone.

Only because we have accepted the premise that government can and should compel that. It is private activity. It involves private interactions. We have accepted government powers we should not have accepted. You should not have to agree to sacrifice your right to choose who you will engage in commerce with in order to be in private business. It's PRIVATE business.

Nonsense, we accepted that premise because racist people were telling Blacks they didn't have to serve them or sell to them. And before Blacks it was Irish or Italians or any other sub group. We decided as a nation that we didn't want that in the public square as it was very easy to subvert the very Declaration of Independence you seem to cherish on one hand and then diminish on the other. It's not private when you do it out in the open. You want a private business, then do it in your house or other private building, don't advertise publically, and don't solicit new customers from the public at large, or have others do it for you. You can be racist or sexist or whatever other -ist you want to be in your own life in your own house or even out and about. What you can't do is open a business to the public at large and then peddle that same -ism.

[GannonFan]

I want to make sure you aren't using the Declaration of Independence for anything other than what it is: an 18th Century "Dear John" letter to King George.

The Declaration of Independence is this nation's founding document. It is the document that declares the general principles. The Constitution is not. It is a Standard Operation Procedure. The Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, represents the "soul" of the nation to be established.

The Declaration of Independence is just that, it's us telling Great Britain they don't rule us anymore and why. The Constitution is the government that we decided to have and found our nation on after Great Britain no longer ruled us. The Declaration is not the founding document for the nation, heck, it didn't even call itself a nation as it still referred to the states as individual states. You're just getting it wrong.