Guns...

[GannonFan]

That's why any of these No Fly No Buy or terrorist watch list proposals MUST have transparency and due process written into them. If you are denied, it can't be an arbitrary or capricious reason. They need to tell you exactly why and you need to be given clear steps for expedient resolution in the case of an error.

But somehow I doubt they will.

Congress can pass a law that doesn't fit the Constitution (and the "No Fly, No Buy" law they are talking about pushing through wouldn't be Constitutional), but then it's up to the Supreme Court to do their part and tell Congress no. Unless there is a clear and transparent way to use due process to get on the list and then get off the list, then it shouldn't pass the constitutionality defense. And frankly, this is exactly the kind of stuff the ALCU should be getting behind as well and they should be coming to the forefront and say that the way lawmakers are proposing this doesn't fit the Constitution. Lawmakers should put a little thought in this rather than just rushing through something to make them and their constituents feel good in the moment but then realize later on they messed up.

[DSUrocks07]

The Democrats ideas of keeping us safe may not be all they're cracked up to be...at least if you're into civil liberties and concerned with the government's ability to isolate you as a radical without due process...

Democratic leaders came out in force on Wednesday in favor of a proposal to prohibit Americans who are on federal government terrorist watchlists from purchasing firearms. A group of Democratic senators waged a fillibuster on the Senate floor. And after presumptive GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump announced that he intends to meet with the powerful National Rifle Association to discuss a similar restriction, presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton welcomed him to the cause.

For Democrats, however, the move amounts to a strong endorsement of a system that civil liberties advocates have called a “Kafkaesque bureaucracy,” and which some Democrats have previously criticized for being secretive, unaccountable, and discriminatory.

Getting your name on a watchlist is much easier than getting it off. According to interagency watchlisting guidelines The Intercept published in 2013, it takes neither “concrete facts” nor “irrefutable evidence” to add someone’s name as a terror suspect. The guidelines allow the administration to name individuals as representatives of terrorist groups they have no demonstrable connection to, or to name entire “categories” of people on to the no-fly list.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/15/dem ... -violence/

Flash forward to 2017 and a Trump Presidency.

Former members of #OWS and BLM are added to the Terror watch list and no fly lists

Shitstorm ensues.

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[kalm]

The Democrats ideas of keeping us safe may not be all they're cracked up to be...at least if you're into civil liberties and concerned with the government's ability to isolate you as a radical without due process...



https://theintercept.com/2016/06/15/dem ... -violence/

Flash forward to 2017 and a Trump Presidency.

Former members of #OWS and BLM are added to the Terror watch list and no fly lists

Shitstorm ensues.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Without getting too Spandosie, that's a large part of the concern.

[kalm]

The Democrats ideas of keeping us safe may not be all they're cracked up to be...at least if you're into civil liberties and concerned with the government's ability to isolate you as a radical without due process...



https://theintercept.com/2016/06/15/dem ... -violence/

Flash forward to 2017 and a Trump Presidency.

Former members of #OWS and BLM are added to the Terror watch list and no fly lists

Shitstorm ensues.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Without getting too Spandosie/Orwellian, that's a large part of the concern.

[andy7171]

[93henfan]

Guns and sweaty socks for all!

[DSUrocks07]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[DSUrocks07]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[andy7171]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Predicted comeback...
"YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT!"

[ASUG8]

Michael Moore That fat bastard is still busy using up all the food and air that someone more deserving could be using. What an idiot.

[Pwns]

I'm curious as to who would be on the no-fly list.

Given how Janet Napolireno's DHS is apparently more concerned about terror from skinheads and tea partiers than Islamists, I wonder if there are just as many Jim Bobs and Bubbas as there are Mohammeds and Amirs.

[93henfan]

I'm curious as to who would be on the no-fly list.

Given how Janet Napolireno's DHS is apparently more concerned about terror from skinheads and tea partiers than Islamists, I wonder if there are just as many Jim Bobs and Bubbas as there are Mohammeds and Amirs.

Our whole member list is on it.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

Michael Moore That fat bastard is still busy using up all the food and air that someone more deserving could be using. What an idiot.

I would seriously punch that fat fuck in the face if I ever saw him in real life. It would be worth the jail time. I wonder if that POS is going to go film the funerals of the gay people that were killed against their wishes?

[CID1990]

Tired, dead logic.


The Constitution didn't envision computers, either... but here we sit, typing away, protected by the 1st Amendment.


BTW- it's called "muzzle loading". You must be channeling your soul mate: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/f ... -1.2673201

Sure. And I've had several debates with Ivytalk on whether a computer/smart phone/emails should be considered personal effects.

Revisionist!

If you understood that a computer and a smart phone are personal effects, and emails are personal communications then you wouldn't have to have several debates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[93henfan]

I'm willing to make one concession to the gun control lobby:

[kalm]

Sure. And I've had several debates with Ivytalk on whether a computer/smart phone/emails should be considered personal effects.

Revisionist!

If you understood that a computer and a smart phone are personal effects, and emails are personal communications then you wouldn't have to have several debates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Constitution didn't envision electronic papers either... but here we sit, typing away, protected by the 1st Amendment.

Tired, dead logic.

[grizzaholic]

Eating a piece of bacon could have prevented 9/11....fuck you KALM!!!

[CID1990]

If you understood that a computer and a smart phone are personal effects, and emails are personal communications then you wouldn't have to have several debates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Constitution didn't envision electronic papers either... but here we sit, typing away, protected by the 1st Amendment.

Tired, dead logic.

For deflection to work you actually need a valid point.

Once again you ignore logic in favor or a hard left position, Mr thoughtful moderate.

[CitadelGrad]

If you understood that a computer and a smart phone are personal effects, and emails are personal communications then you wouldn't have to have several debates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Constitution didn't envision electronic papers either... but here we sit, typing away, protected by the 1st Amendment.

Tired, dead logic.

You're trying pretty hard to break analjelly's strikeout record.

Another swing and miss.

[kalm]

The Constitution didn't envision electronic papers either... but here we sit, typing away, protected by the 1st Amendment.

Tired, dead logic.

For deflection to work you actually need a valid point.

Once again you ignore logic in favor or a hard left position, Mr thoughtful moderate.

Hard left?

I'm only questioning the constitutional consistency here. I own a few of the 300 million guns in this country. Our right to own those ain't going away. I get the slippery slope theory and the notion that if the government can arm itself with nukes, citizens should be able to as well to maintain a level battlefield. In other words, I AM Mr. Thoughtful Moderate on this issue...thank you very much.


But let me get this straight...

1) You say that even though the founding fathers didn't anticipate computers, the constitution still protects our 1st amendment rights while typing on them.

2) Therefore the founding fathers who didn't anticipate semi-auto/automatic weapons would still support the 2nd amendment rights of those who wanted to own them.

3) But our 4th amendment rights to privacy regarding our papers don't count because emails are, as you put it, "personal communications" and different from personal effects?

I had you pegged as an originalist. I guess only when it's convenient.

Go sit in the corner with Cgrad and Grizza.

[houndawg]

Michael Moore That fat bastard is still busy using up all the food and air that someone more deserving could be using. What an idiot.

I would seriously punch that fat **** in the face if I ever saw him in real life. It would be worth the jail time. I wonder if that POS is going to go film the funerals of the gay people that were killed against their wishes?

You wouldn't do shit except ask for his autograph. You're too much pussy to even leave Utah.

[CAA Flagship]

Michael Moore That fat bastard is still busy using up all the food and air that someone more deserving could be using. What an idiot.

I would seriously punch that fat fuck in the face if I ever saw him in real life. It would be worth the jail time. I wonder if that POS is going to go film the funerals of the gay people that were killed against their wishes?

I would quietly walk up behind him with a bottle of mustard and fill his pocket.

[grizzaholic]

I would seriously punch that fat **** in the face if I ever saw him in real life. It would be worth the jail time. I wonder if that POS is going to go film the funerals of the gay people that were killed against their wishes?

You wouldn't do shit except ask for his autograph. You're too much pussy to even leave Utah.

At least he wouldn't suck him off like you.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

I would seriously punch that fat **** in the face if I ever saw him in real life. It would be worth the jail time. I wonder if that POS is going to go film the funerals of the gay people that were killed against their wishes?

You wouldn't do shit except ask for his autograph. You're too much pussy to even leave Utah.

I know the family of the soldier he filmed in his suck ass movie. My nephew was his son's mentor in Boise for years. Don't pretend to know anything about me. I'm really a pretty mellow guy in real life but there are things that piss me off and in my mind, Moore crossed that line.

http://arlingtoncemetery.net/gregory-stone.htm

[CID1990]

For deflection to work you actually need a valid point.

Once again you ignore logic in favor or a hard left position, Mr thoughtful moderate.

Hard left?

I'm only questioning the constitutional consistency here. I own a few of the 300 million guns in this country. Our right to own those ain't going away. I get the slippery slope theory and the notion that if the government can arm itself with nukes, citizens should be able to as well to maintain a level battlefield. In other words, I AM Mr. Thoughtful Moderate on this issue...thank you very much.


But let me get this straight...

1) You say that even though the founding fathers didn't anticipate computers, the constitution still protects our 1st amendment rights while typing on them.

2) Therefore the founding fathers who didn't anticipate semi-auto/automatic weapons would still support the 2nd amendment rights of those who wanted to own them.

3) But our 4th amendment rights to privacy regarding our papers don't count because emails are, as you put it, "personal communications" and different from personal effects?

I had you pegged as an originalist. I guess only when it's convenient.

Go sit in the corner with Cgrad and Grizza.

No, the inference you are making is of your own invention.

I never implied that emails were not protected by the Constitution. I said they were communications. Just as written letter are- and the government needs a warrant seize or read them. If you want to call them effects, then fine- knock yourself out. They are still protected all the same.

Sometimes I think you just post because you think you're somehow being left out. Or behind.