Guns...

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Re: Guns...

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Hard left? :suspicious:

I'm only questioning the constitutional consistency here. I own a few of the 300 million guns in this country. Our right to own those ain't going away. I get the slippery slope theory and the notion that if the government can arm itself with nukes, citizens should be able to as well to maintain a level battlefield. In other words, I AM Mr. Thoughtful Moderate on this issue...thank you very much.


But let me get this straight...

1) You say that even though the founding fathers didn't anticipate computers, the constitution still protects our 1st amendment rights while typing on them.

2) Therefore the founding fathers who didn't anticipate semi-auto/automatic weapons would still support the 2nd amendment rights of those who wanted to own them.

3) But our 4th amendment rights to privacy regarding our papers don't count because emails are, as you put it, "personal communications" and different from personal effects?

I had you pegged as an originalist. I guess only when it's convenient.

Go sit in the corner with Cgrad and Grizza. :dunce:
No, the inference you are making is of your own invention.

I never implied that emails were not protected by the Constitution. I said they were communications. Just as written letter are- and the government needs a warrant seize or read them. If you want to call them effects, then fine- knock yourself out. They are still protected all the same.

Sometimes I think you just post because you think you're somehow being left out. Or behind.
Great! So you DO allow for some interpretation except with the tired and dead analogies of course. :lol:

And I'm sure you're farts smell fine...to you. :thumb:
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Re: Guns...

Post by Chizzang »

Regardless of the tit-for-tat details of gun laws...
If the FBI isn't going to do it's job or is simply inept on a grand scale

Citizens need to start arming themselves - it's just that simple

This latest killer simply SCREAMED red flag
I can no longer wait and see - I've seen enough and I don't care about gun laws
and I don't care about the constitution

The FBI is about as handy as the TSA
The onus is squarely in my own court to handle the affairs of state
I will acquire what I need by any means possible - The End

Thank you and Good Night
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Re: Guns...

Post by GrizFanStuckInUtah »

Chizzang wrote:Regardless of the tit-for-tat details of gun laws...
If the FBI isn't going to do it's job or is simply inept on a grand scale

Citizens need to start arming themselves - it's just that simple

This latest killer simply SCREAMED red flag
I can no longer wait and see - I've seen enough and I don't care about gun laws
and I don't care about the constitution

The FBI is about as handy as the TSA
The onus is squarely in my own court to handle the affairs of state
I will acquire what I need by any means possible - The End

Thank you and Good Night
Well damn Chizz, I gotta agree with you. :thumb:

I am really of the opinion that we need to create a national conceal carry permit for people to get. That way asshole states like California and Oregon can't keep me from carrying when I go there. In fact, I am pretty sure I won't go there anymore until I can legally carry. I will stick to the states that honor my permit and be happy. :nod:
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Re: Guns...

Post by Chizzang »

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:
Chizzang wrote:Regardless of the tit-for-tat details of gun laws...
If the FBI isn't going to do it's job or is simply inept on a grand scale

Citizens need to start arming themselves - it's just that simple

This latest killer simply SCREAMED red flag
I can no longer wait and see - I've seen enough and I don't care about gun laws
and I don't care about the constitution

The FBI is about as handy as the TSA
The onus is squarely in my own court to handle the affairs of state
I will acquire what I need by any means possible - The End

Thank you and Good Night
Well damn Chizz, I gotta agree with you. :thumb:

I am really of the opinion that we need to create a national conceal carry permit for people to get. That way asshole states like California and Oregon can't keep me from carrying when I go there. In fact, I am pretty sure I won't go there anymore until I can legally carry. I will stick to the states that honor my permit and be happy. :nod:
So I'm in the gun shop today with my new 410 shotgun and I'm like
Me: hey what's this plastic thing in the chamber where the shells go...
Guy: Oh it's illegal to have as many slugs in there at one time as the gun will hold
Me: Can I take it out..?
Guy: Nope you can't but here let me show you how it works
Me: Ah... I see so that's how you take it out
Guy: Big smile - Maybe...

:rofl:
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Re: Guns...

Post by JohnStOnge »

You know, I think what the country needs to do is have an honest discussion about what the original understanding of the Second Amendment is and whether or not we need to Amend the Constitution. I say that because all of this stuff about "guns" and whether anybody "needs" an "assault rifle" and such is totally off point.

To me, the Second Amendment is there to prevent the Federal government from regulating and/or holding a monopoly on military arms. Not just guns. It appears to refer to all of the military arms available at the time. It goes along with a situation in which Congress had the power "To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years."

It looks to me like the idea was to create a situation in which the primary responsibility for land defense of the United States rested with State militias. And it looks to me like they wanted to create a situation in which the Federal government could never rule the States by sheer force because the militia were maintained by each "free state."

In any case it was clearly referring to military arms. This thing of the Federal government doing things like banning automatic weapons is, to me, a clear violation of what it says in plain English and what the original understanding was.

I understand why people don't want to go along with that. Back then about the worst thing "arms" encompassed was a primitive cannon. Nowadays "arms" includes nuclear weapons. But I think we need to be intellectually honest and go through the process provided by the Constitution to make changes if changes are necessary instead of playing this game. And doing things like referring to hunting is absurd. All other things aside the Second Amendment clearly isn't talking about hunting weapons. It's talking about military arms. And "arms" goes beyond just guns. It's putting a restriction on the Federal government with respect to controlling military arms.
Last edited by JohnStOnge on Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guns...

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

Chizzang wrote:
GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:
Well damn Chizz, I gotta agree with you. :thumb:

I am really of the opinion that we need to create a national conceal carry permit for people to get. That way asshole states like California and Oregon can't keep me from carrying when I go there. In fact, I am pretty sure I won't go there anymore until I can legally carry. I will stick to the states that honor my permit and be happy. :nod:
So I'm in the gun shop today with my new 410 shotgun and I'm like
Me: hey what's this plastic thing in the chamber where the shells go...
Guy: Oh it's illegal to have as many slugs in there at one time as the gun will hold
Me: Can I take it out..?
Guy: Nope you can't but here let me show you how it works
Me: Ah... I see so that's how you take it out
Guy: Big smile - Maybe...

:rofl:

Why would you buy a 410?

:ohno:



:tothehand:
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Re: Guns...

Post by Skjellyfetti »

JohnStOnge wrote: It looks to me like the idea was to create a situation in which the primary responsibility for land defense of the United States rested with State militias. And it looks to me like they wanted to create a situation in which the Federal government could never rule the States by sheer force because the militia were maintained by each "free state."

Where in the Constitution does it say anything about militias being maintained by each "free state"??

It doesn't say anything about "free states" at all - language about states being "sovereign" was in the Articles of Confederation and removed when they drafted the Constitution.



The Constitution does say who should organize, arm, discipline, and govern the militia.

And guess who it explicitly gives that power to?? CONGRESS. :shock:

The powers with respect to the militia that the Constitution leaves to the states are (1) appointing officers and (2) training the militia (as instructed by Congress). Doesn't sound like "militia were maintained by each 'free state'" to me.... :coffee:

The Constitution lists three functions of the militias. One of which is to "suppress insurrections". You seem to think one of the functions of a militia is to foment insurrection?



"the militia were maintained by each 'free state'" is a pretty loose interpretation of the Constituion. :coffee:



Constitution wrote:Congress shall have the power to....

provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
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Re: Guns...

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

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Re: Guns...

Post by JohnStOnge »

Where in the Constitution does it say anything about militias being maintained by each "free state"??
Second Amendment:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
But look, this is the kind of thing the nation can debate. An honest discussion of what the intent/understanding was. But the main thing is that it wasn't talking about just guns. And it wasn't talking about hunting or home defense. It was clearly referring to military arms whatever those military arms might be.

Like in the past few days we've heard, again, the thing about there's no way people should have military weapons. But military arms is CLEARLY what the Second Amendment is referring too. All other things aside we should be able to at least agree on THAT.
Last edited by JohnStOnge on Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guns...

Post by kalm »

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
So I'm in the gun shop today with my new 410 shotgun and I'm like
Me: hey what's this plastic thing in the chamber where the shells go...
Guy: Oh it's illegal to have as many slugs in there at one time as the gun will hold
Me: Can I take it out..?
Guy: Nope you can't but here let me show you how it works
Me: Ah... I see so that's how you take it out
Guy: Big smile - Maybe...

:rofl:

Why would you buy a 410?

:ohno:



:tothehand:
Do you have any idea how much safer I feel knowing Cleets is packing at our Spokane coffee clutches now?

Lay off, why dontcha! :tothehand:
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Re: Guns...

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

He probably has a macrame sling.........
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Re: Guns...

Post by kalm »

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:He probably has a macrame sling.........
It impresses the militant barista crowd!
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Re: Guns...

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:

Why would you buy a 410?

:ohno:



:tothehand:
Do you have any idea how much safer I feel knowing Cleets is packing at our Spokane coffee clutches now?

Lay off, why dontcha! :tothehand:
:?

*klatches

:ohno:
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Re: Guns...

Post by Col Hogan »

No, they clutch their coffee in the North West...
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Re: Guns...

Post by Ivytalk »

Chizzang wrote:Regardless of the tit-for-tat details of gun laws...
If the FBI isn't going to do it's job or is simply inept on a grand scale

Citizens need to start arming themselves - it's just that simple

This latest killer simply SCREAMED red flag
I can no longer wait and see - I've seen enough and I don't care about gun laws
and I don't care about the constitution

The FBI is about as handy as the TSA
The onus is squarely in my own court to handle the affairs of state
I will acquire what I need by any means possible - The End

Thank you and Good Night
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Re: Guns...

Post by kalm »

Col Hogan wrote:No, they clutch their coffee in the North West... Image
You got that shit right!

Coffee Clutch
Talkshow-like reference to when someone arbitrarily talks far too much/too long. Wasting time chatting, bullshiting, or arguing. Unnecessarily long conversation, irrelevant conversation, or just general flatulence of the mouth.

in satire: One who sits on a talk show "Clutching they're coffee and lecturing an audience".
(security personnel radio chatter)

SecurityGuard1: david 5 to david 1... you've got a pretty mouth.......
......
.......david 5 to david 1.... smile like a donut for me....
....
SecurityGuard2: David 5, go do something constructive, this is'nt a fucking coffee clutch.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=4662381

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Spoiler: show
Ive only heard the word used by one old timer and he and his buddies pronounce it this way. :mrgreen:
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Re: Guns...

Post by Chizzang »

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
So I'm in the gun shop today with my new 410 shotgun and I'm like
Me: hey what's this plastic thing in the chamber where the shells go...
Guy: Oh it's illegal to have as many slugs in there at one time as the gun will hold
Me: Can I take it out..?
Guy: Nope you can't but here let me show you how it works
Me: Ah... I see so that's how you take it out
Guy: Big smile - Maybe...

:rofl:

Why would you buy a 410?

:ohno:



:tothehand:

Because it's a blast (no pun intended)
Went to the skeet range just north of town had a great time

:nod:

All the old dudes at the range were hittin' on the girlfriend (hilariously)
They seem really excited to have a few Liberals to make fun of

Turns out the farm girl can shoot a skeet
I kid you not:The funniest old guy
(was wearing an antique grimy baseball cap that that read "In Dog we Trust")
Admitted he was surprised how good of a shot she was

I'm pretty sure the dogs running around the range were his...
Also the 1970's pick up truck with two bullet holes in it looked like he might be the owner
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Re: Guns...

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

When I was 15 I was shooting skeet with a recurve bow..................so Yeah, glad you enjoyed yourself all these years later.
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Re: Guns...

Post by Chizzang »

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:When I was 15 I was shooting skeet with a recurve bow..................so Yeah, glad you enjoyed yourself all these years later.
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Re: Guns...

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GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:
houndawg wrote:
You wouldn't do **** except ask for his autograph. You're too much pussy to even leave Utah.
I know the family of the soldier he filmed in his suck ass movie. My nephew was his son's mentor in Boise for years. Don't pretend to know anything about me. I'm really a pretty mellow guy in real life but there are things that piss me off and in my mind, Moore crossed that line.

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Re: Guns...

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Re: Guns...

Post by Skjellyfetti »

I think the term is 'reach around'
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Re: Guns...

Post by Chizzang »

kalm wrote:
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:He probably has a macrame sling.........
It impresses the militant barista crowd!

The girlfriend is pretty good at the skeet range..!!!
She's a lefty and shoots from what looks like the wrong side - weird as hell

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Re: Guns...

Post by houndawg »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Where in the Constitution does it say anything about militias being maintained by each "free state"??
Second Amendment:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
But look, this is the kind of thing the nation can debate. An honest discussion of what the intent/understanding was. But the main thing is that it wasn't talking about just guns. And it wasn't talking about hunting or home defense. It was clearly referring to military arms whatever those military arms might be.

Like in the past few days we've heard, again, the thing about there's no way people should have military weapons. But military arms is CLEARLY what the Second Amendment is referring too. All other things aside we should be able to at least agree on THAT.
sure - but the reason they're referring to military arms is because it was written with the assumption that the United States would not have a standing Army or foreign entanglements. As a nation we have changed our position on the subject and decided to maintain a standing Army for more than defense. The reasoning of the founding fathers no longer applies, the second amendment is about as relevant as your appendix. :coffee:
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Re: Guns...

Post by AZGrizFan »

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and provide new Guards for their future security
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