SCOTUS slaps down Texas anti-abortion law

[Ibanez]

That is not what they are saying. The Texas law required abortion centers to have higher standards than other outpatient clinics that do far more dangerous work - like a colonoscopy. A doctor could do one in his office, and colonoscopies have a much greater complication rate than abortions do.

Most doctors are not ER doctors. Again, you have no clue as to what the ruling was about. Stop reading the extremist, terrorist websites with their lies.

And what about mid-wives? How do their clinics stack up? What are dangers? Do they have ER auth?

We had our daughter born at a birthing center. They clinics were held to they same standard as hospitals, the Doctors had privileges at the hospital, which was located at the other end of the road, and we paid a fraction of the price of what a normal, in hospital birth would've been. There aren't any new dangers. Most birthing centers will not accept high risk pregnancies and if a pregnancy becomes high risk it's their medical obligation to refer them to a hospital where they can get specialized care. South Carolina tried to get rid of them, but the mothers ( and scores of doctors) came out in their defense.


The pregnancy wasn't treated like a disorder, there was no need for epidural and Rose was delivered safely in about 3 hours. We were home about 4 hours after that. I'm a huge advocate for birthing centers/midwives.

[dbackjon]

Abortion will go away when science gets to the point where a person doesn't need to carry a baby in a womb in order for it to keep living. We're getting there, and will continue to get there, it's only a question of when we arrive at that point. Once artificial wombs are realized then all this abortion talk will go away. It's always been about ending one life in exchange for another life to not be impacted more than it has to be. Science will take care of this in the coming decades.

How so?

Are you saying that instead of aborting, doctors will transfer the collection of cells to an artificial womb for it to be raised by whom??

Government?

[Ibanez]

And what about mid-wives? How do their clinics stack up? What are dangers? Do they have ER auth?

I doubt it.

And it is not ER auth - another misstatement by the Forced-Birth Camp. Admitting privledges to a hospital is something completely different. And frankly unnecessary for an abortion clinic. Picture the scenario - two hospitals in a 25 mile radius - one Catholic, one Baptist. Both refuse to give a doctor admitting privledges. Clinic can't operate. State says, well, they didn't meet the criteria. But the state KNEW that the hospitals would deny them privledges. So, the SCOTUS (the logical, sane ones, not the foaming-at-the-mouth religious fanatics) correctly ruled that was a defacto ban on abortion, which is unconstitutional.

Most doctors that work with mid-wives and birthing centers have ER privileges. I remember when we went to our birthing center, they stats were incredible. They had been opened for 5 years, delivered close to 1500 babies, 3 had to be transferred to the hospital and the avg time from calling the ambulance to birth at the hospital was under 15 minutes.
If it's done right (like everything) it's a great, safe and IMO, a better alternative than a hospital.

[GannonFan]

Abortion will go away when science gets to the point where a person doesn't need to carry a baby in a womb in order for it to keep living. We're getting there, and will continue to get there, it's only a question of when we arrive at that point. Once artificial wombs are realized then all this abortion talk will go away. It's always been about ending one life in exchange for another life to not be impacted more than it has to be. Science will take care of this in the coming decades.

How so?

Are you saying that instead of aborting, doctors will transfer the collection of cells to an artificial womb for it to be raised by whom??

Government?

That's a discussion we'll have to have then because it does raise maybe even more questions. We're fine with abortion now because of the rough guideline of how far along until a baby can live outside the womb. Anything before that time and it's generally accepted (legally) that abortion is fine. After that time it's generally only fine if the health of the mother is jeopardized. So we've already established that the only criteria for what is and what isn't acceptable in terms of ending a human life is whether it can live outside the womb. And that line has been getting closer and closer to conception as science advances. There's no real debate in science in terms of when a human life begins, the debate is in the politics of how to handle it if the mother doesn't want the baby. Right now, since a baby can't live outside the womb until the second trimester, we allow abortions. When science advances to the first trimester and even the first days, it's going to be harder to say ending that life is okay. And yes, that will raise lots of questions over how to deal with the unwanted children that result because of this. Science, unfortunately, won't be able to answer that.

[GannonFan]

I doubt it.

And it is not ER auth - another misstatement by the Forced-Birth Camp. Admitting privledges to a hospital is something completely different. And frankly unnecessary for an abortion clinic. Picture the scenario - two hospitals in a 25 mile radius - one Catholic, one Baptist. Both refuse to give a doctor admitting privledges. Clinic can't operate. State says, well, they didn't meet the criteria. But the state KNEW that the hospitals would deny them privledges. So, the SCOTUS (the logical, sane ones, not the foaming-at-the-mouth religious fanatics) correctly ruled that was a defacto ban on abortion, which is unconstitutional.

Most doctors that work with mid-wives and birthing centers have ER privileges. I remember when we went to our birthing center, they stats were incredible. They had been opened for 5 years, delivered close to 1500 babies, 3 had to be transferred to the hospital and the avg time from calling the ambulance to birth at the hospital was under 15 minutes.
If it's done right (like everything) it's a great, safe and IMO, a better alternative than a hospital.

My wife would've hated the birthing centers, especially on the kids after the first birth. She actually enjoyed staying in the hospital and away from the other kids for a couple of days - it was like a little vacation done around a surgery.

[JoltinJoe]

The US Constitution does not, in truth, protect any "right" to abortion. Roe v. Wade and other decisions holding that it does are the worst examples of judicial activism.

Roe v. Wade has done more damage to the tranquility of our nation that any other decision in the history of the Republic. There have been other bad Supreme Court decisions, but the damage done by Roe v. Wade seems permanent and has irreparably changed the ways and means of our federal government.

You see all those crazy fundamentalists lining the hallways of Congress? They are there because of Roe v. Wade. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

No, they're there because they're crazy fundamentalists and have nothing better to do.

It's funny you don't get it.

They're there because the Supreme Court, rather than allow for regional preferences concerning local law and morality as intended by the founders, decided in Griswold and Roe that it could fix the moral viewpoint of the majority of its members as the national morality.

And if a majority of the Supreme Court can impose its morality as the national morality, then fundamentalists and conservatives are going to send representatives to Washington who are going to vote for justices that will impose THEIR values as the national morality.

And if we are going to have a national moral standard, rather than allow for regional preferences, then we are going to have gridlock in Washington, largely resulting from conflict over social issues. Washington becomes the place where we take our regional differences in values and morality, and fight it out. Thus, Washington no longer is the place where, no matter what our regional differences, we come together and conduct the nation's business over the federal matters that unite the states.

We can't even get a vote on a 9th Supreme Court justice, because some Senators think the president's pick is going to continue to support Roe.

There was no "Moral Majority" until the latter 1970s. Guys like Goldwater, who were labeled as "extreme conservatives," really had no interest in social issues. It was not until after the Supreme Court forced abortion as a "constitutional right" onto unwilling states, that the conservative movement became overrun with fundamentalists. Now a very significant portion of our population decides who to send to Washington based on social and moral issues. Is there any wonder we have gridlock and extreme dysfunction in our nation's capital?

[JoltinJoe]

lol @ drama queen Joe

That's funny. You calling someone a drama queen.

Hey, BTW, which Amendment to the US Constitution mentions or protects abortion?

[Ibanez]

Most doctors that work with mid-wives and birthing centers have ER privileges. I remember when we went to our birthing center, they stats were incredible. They had been opened for 5 years, delivered close to 1500 babies, 3 had to be transferred to the hospital and the avg time from calling the ambulance to birth at the hospital was under 15 minutes.
If it's done right (like everything) it's a great, safe and IMO, a better alternative than a hospital.

My wife would've hated the birthing centers, especially on the kids after the first birth. She actually enjoyed staying in the hospital and away from the other kids for a couple of days - it was like a little vacation done around a surgery.

I get that. But we didn't have to waste money on a hospital. We had a water birth. Everything went smoothly. 5:12 pm our daughter was born and by 11pm we were home. Midwives came by everyday to do vitals and such but overall, it was a great experience. My only wish is that I wish we were warned about A) baby girls having "periods" and B) the merconium aka black, tar shit. Gross.

[SuperHornet]

Abortion will go away when science gets to the point where a person doesn't need to carry a baby in a womb in order for it to keep living. We're getting there, and will continue to get there, it's only a question of when we arrive at that point. Once artificial wombs are realized then all this abortion talk will go away. It's always been about ending one life in exchange for another life to not be impacted more than it has to be. Science will take care of this in the coming decades.

How so?

Are you saying that instead of aborting, doctors will transfer the collection of cells to an artificial womb for it to be raised by whom??

Government?

I think he was proposing a Star Trek-style transporter device...which would probably work well MOST of the time, but malpractice suits would go through the roof if the calibration were ever off....