IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Football Championship Subdivision discussions
User avatar
Gil Dobie
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 31121
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:45 pm
I am a fan of: Norse Dakota State
Location: Historic Leduc Estate

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by Gil Dobie »

bucs90 wrote:
Thumper 76 wrote: No it's not the same. As a university they don't have as many people attending, have much much smaller budgets for their athletics departments, and much smaller population bases to draw from. You put it in perspective. FCS=FCS, FBS=FBS, and so on. That's why there are divisions. If you want a FBS discussion then go to bowl subdivision.com. If you want to compare speed do it in the same division, don't run from your stupid comment to use examples that aren't a part of the equation. You can squawk all you want about southern speed but the proof is in the pudding. And it's not even about speed it's about the system you recruit for. You get bigger guys for power running and quicker players to play/stop the spread.
Same could be said for NDSU. They're bigger than CSU, Citadel, Wofford and Furman...combined.


I see what you're saying but "Southern Speed" is referring to all teams at all levels.
NDSU is only playing FCS schools with "Southern Speed", that's what I'm talking about. ;)
Image
User avatar
bucs90
Level2
Level2
Posts: 973
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:43 pm
I am a fan of: Charleston Southern

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by bucs90 »

Gil Dobie wrote:
bucs90 wrote:
Same could be said for NDSU. They're bigger than CSU, Citadel, Wofford and Furman...combined.


I see what you're saying but "Southern Speed" is referring to all teams at all levels.
NDSU is only playing FCS schools with "Southern Speed", that's what I'm talking about. ;)
Yeah. I see what you're saying. All I'm saying is you guys may be FCS but you are the premiere state run school up there. Same with Montana and Idaho. FCS down here are not the primary state schools. And our best FCS teams have moved to FBS. That's kinda hurting Southern FCS ball. GSU, App State, now Coastal. All moved up. Central Florida. South Florida. Middle Tennessee St. Many others. They all move up and scoop up D1 level players that otherwise would be in FCS. Also...we have the black colleges. A lot of the "Southern Speed" FCS guys end up there. Ever see the NFL alumni lists from those schools?

The Southern Speed thing originated from SEC/ACC fans talking smack to Big 10 fans. It obviously applies more to the higher level schools bc that's who gets the elite speed players down here.
[img] http://www.csusports.com/sports/fball/2 ... 325380900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[img]
User avatar
Bison Fan in NW MN
Level2
Level2
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: NDSU
A.K.A.: bisoninnwmn

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by Bison Fan in NW MN »

bucs90 wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
NDSU is only playing FCS schools with "Southern Speed", that's what I'm talking about. ;)
Yeah. I see what you're saying. All I'm saying is you guys may be FCS but you are the premiere state run school up there. Same with Montana and Idaho. FCS down here are not the primary state schools. And our best FCS teams have moved to FBS. That's kinda hurting Southern FCS ball. GSU, App State, now Coastal. All moved up. Central Florida. South Florida. Middle Tennessee St. Many others. They all move up and scoop up D1 level players that otherwise would be in FCS. Also...we have the black colleges. A lot of the "Southern Speed" FCS guys end up there. Ever see the NFL alumni lists from those schools?

The Southern Speed thing originated from SEC/ACC fans talking smack to Big 10 fans. It obviously applies more to the higher level schools bc that's who gets the elite speed players down here.


Chuck South has 63 scholarships, the same as NDSU.

Equal footing IMO.

:roll:
User avatar
Thumper 76
Level2
Level2
Posts: 1442
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:33 pm
I am a fan of: South Dakota State
Location: Where ever I happen to be

IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by Thumper 76 »

Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:
bucs90 wrote:
Yeah. I see what you're saying. All I'm saying is you guys may be FCS but you are the premiere state run school up there. Same with Montana and Idaho. FCS down here are not the primary state schools. And our best FCS teams have moved to FBS. That's kinda hurting Southern FCS ball. GSU, App State, now Coastal. All moved up. Central Florida. South Florida. Middle Tennessee St. Many others. They all move up and scoop up D1 level players that otherwise would be in FCS. Also...we have the black colleges. A lot of the "Southern Speed" FCS guys end up there. Ever see the NFL alumni lists from those schools?

The Southern Speed thing originated from SEC/ACC fans talking smack to Big 10 fans. It obviously applies more to the higher level schools bc that's who gets the elite speed players down here.


Chuck South has 63 scholarships, the same as NDSU.

Equal footing IMO.

:roll:

Image
Last edited by Thumper 76 on Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Please don't tell Obama what comes after a Trillion.
clenz
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 21202
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:30 pm

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by clenz »

Souther speed is a complete myth outside of the SEC and ACC
User avatar
bucs90
Level2
Level2
Posts: 973
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:43 pm
I am a fan of: Charleston Southern

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by bucs90 »

clenz wrote:Souther speed is a complete myth outside of the SEC and ACC
Sort of. But let's say we took 10,000 random high school football players age 16 to 18 from N Dakota, Montana, Iowa, Minnesota. Then we took 10,000 random players from Georgia, SC, Florida, Alabama.

Between the two....which group would have the better average 40 yd dash and 20 yd shuttle times?

Thats the "Southern Speed" thing. And no it doesn't always mean a win. But it isn't a myth. And to be blunt....the US Census shows over 55% of African-American live in the 9 Southern states. That's another reason for it.
[img] http://www.csusports.com/sports/fball/2 ... 325380900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[img]
User avatar
bucs90
Level2
Level2
Posts: 973
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:43 pm
I am a fan of: Charleston Southern

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by bucs90 »

Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:
bucs90 wrote:
Yeah. I see what you're saying. All I'm saying is you guys may be FCS but you are the premiere state run school up there. Same with Montana and Idaho. FCS down here are not the primary state schools. And our best FCS teams have moved to FBS. That's kinda hurting Southern FCS ball. GSU, App State, now Coastal. All moved up. Central Florida. South Florida. Middle Tennessee St. Many others. They all move up and scoop up D1 level players that otherwise would be in FCS. Also...we have the black colleges. A lot of the "Southern Speed" FCS guys end up there. Ever see the NFL alumni lists from those schools?

The Southern Speed thing originated from SEC/ACC fans talking smack to Big 10 fans. It obviously applies more to the higher level schools bc that's who gets the elite speed players down here.


Chuck South has 63 scholarships, the same as NDSU.

Equal footing IMO.

:roll:

100% true. Never argued otherwise. I wasn't the person who brought "Southern Speed" into this BTW. And I have nothing but total respect for NDSU. Yall are 5x defending champs. Clearly the #1 team and program in FCS.

Same rules of course. But FCS is seen different down here. We aren't the big show in town like NDSU or Montana. We also barely even have D3 whereas up North D3 is very popular.


Anyway....cant wait for the game. We really are grateful for NDSU giving us this showcase game. Hope we can make it a good one!
[img] http://www.csusports.com/sports/fball/2 ... 325380900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[img]
User avatar
Bison Fan in NW MN
Level2
Level2
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:14 pm
I am a fan of: NDSU
A.K.A.: bisoninnwmn

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by Bison Fan in NW MN »

bucs90 wrote:
Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:


Chuck South has 63 scholarships, the same as NDSU.

Equal footing IMO.

:roll:

100% true. Never argued otherwise. I wasn't the person who brought "Southern Speed" into this BTW. And I have nothing but total respect for NDSU. Yall are 5x defending champs. Clearly the #1 team and program in FCS.

Same rules of course. But FCS is seen different down here. We aren't the big show in town like NDSU or Montana. We also barely even have D3 whereas up North D3 is very popular.


Anyway....cant wait for the game. We really are grateful for NDSU giving us this showcase game. Hope we can make it a good one!












It should be a great atmosphere. I love watching option/veer football, so having CSU run it out of the gun will be fun to watch.

Will Chadwell bring the team to the sideline to watch the championship banner be raised?

The Ferris State coach wanted his players to see what it looks like to motivate his team to make that a goal for them.
BigSouthJunkie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:38 am

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by BigSouthJunkie »

Lets please not be naive..
I copy and pasted an article from Bleacher Report. Here is the link as well: http://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal ... nois-state
There's a reason why Northern football is better than Southern football when it comes to FCS and Division 2, and simply put as BUCS90 stated, its the fact that it's SEC/ACC country down South, and all of the recruits are picked over and heavily sought after. Even former NDSU coach Craig Bohl "the tendency of Northern FBS coaches to ignore their home turf has helped." So I don't want to hear the hooplah about 'same amount of scholarships' and this and that. The South is where BIG TIME college football is dominant, and the up North teams are better because of lack of recruiting competition. That's what it boils down to. Fact not opinion.



"The Southeast is king of big-time college football. The SEC has been the dominant conference in the sport for the past decade. Florida State ended the conference's seven-year title run last season, but continued the regional dynasty. This year, Southeastern teams Alabama and FSU make up two of the College Football Playoff's four.

But in the lower division of Division I football, the FCS, the roles are reversed. This year, the FCS title game will feature two teams from a Northern conference, as the Missouri Valley's Illinois State and North Dakota State -- the latter going for its fourth straight championship -- square off.

Three of the final four teams in the tournament were from the North, as were four of the top five, plus 10 of the regular season's top 15. Since Richmond's 2008 championship, every FCS champion has been from the North, and the title game has had a Northern participant every year since 2002.


There are two major reasons for the North's success. The first is recruiting. While the South produces far better athletes, the South is also more heavily recruited. It makes sense for an FBS coach to spend more time recruiting Alabama than, say, North Dakota. But that means coaches are going to miss good players more often in the North.

That's to the advantage of the Northern FCS schools, who are going to see kids in their backyard get overlooked more often than the Southern FCS schools.

"It's almost like the South gets strip-mined," Maine coach Jack Cosgrove told me last year in an article for the Wall Street Journal. "There are not a lot of players available, and I guess it forces the FCS schools to really recruit where they are."

Northern cities Minneapolis and Seattle, along with states Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Iowa, have helped teams like NDSU, Eastern Washington, Montana, and Northern Iowa become national powerhouses. Former NDSU coach Craig Bohl, now at Wyoming, and Eastern Washington coach Beau Baldwin said the tendency of Northern FBS coaches to ignore their home turf has helped.

"I'd rather not get that out, but it's true," Baldwin said.

The other big advantage Northern FCS schools have is that their Southern competition is leaving FCS, as low-level FBS conferences in their region look to expand. Just this year, two Southern FCS powers, Georgia Southern and Appalachian State made the move to FBS.

Those two had combined to win nine FCS championships. Western Kentucky, the 2002 FCS champion, has also since moved up to FBS. This means that only two FCS titles since 1988 were won by current Southern FCS schools (Richmond 2008, James Madison 2004). NDSU already has three titles in that time, and Ohio's Youngstown State has four.

Of all the schools to join the FBS since 2009, only one is from the North.

All of these teams have already built big fan bases, and they get to run cheaper programs and don't need to deal with the headaches of finding conferences in FBS (what low-level FBS conference would make sense, geographically, for NDSU or Eastern Washington?).

FCS football suits them just fine for now. And they'll just get to keep dominating their neighbors to the South."
User avatar
Thumper 76
Level2
Level2
Posts: 1442
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:33 pm
I am a fan of: South Dakota State
Location: Where ever I happen to be

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by Thumper 76 »

So, southern teams are incapable of finding recruits outside of the south is what you are saying? That maybe they are too caught up in the idea of southern speed? And don't give me this its too far out of our area garbage. SDSU regularly has kids from AZ on their team as well.

The funny part to me is you BSJunkie, tried to argue that CSU will do well against NDSU because of southern speed, then when shown that southern speed is a junk phrase are the FCS level, it's now unfair that the northern teams don't get recruited in their areas as heavily, making comparisons between southern schools and northern schools unfair due to their locations and school make up. What's it gunna be? Is CSU good because of Southern Speed? Or is the reality that at FCS level it doesn't matter. Cause if you are using the argument that it isn't fair to compare northern teams to southern teams in FCS due to location of recruiting grounds then it isn't any more fair to argue about it between the B1G and SEC. The only fair way to make comparisons when talking about these things is by division, because then everyone has the same rules. That's why there are divisions FFS.
Image
Please don't tell Obama what comes after a Trillion.
User avatar
bucs90
Level2
Level2
Posts: 973
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:43 pm
I am a fan of: Charleston Southern

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by bucs90 »

Thumper 76 wrote:So, southern teams are incapable of finding recruits outside of the south is what you are saying? That maybe they are too caught up in the idea of southern speed? And don't give me this its too far out of our area garbage. SDSU regularly has kids from AZ on their team as well.

The funny part to me is you BSJunkie, tried to argue that CSU will do well against NDSU because of southern speed, then when shown that southern speed is a junk phrase are the FCS level, it's now unfair that the northern teams don't get recruited in their areas as heavily, making comparisons between southern schools and northern schools unfair due to their locations and school make up. What's it gunna be? Is CSU good because of Southern Speed? Or is the reality that at FCS level it doesn't matter. Cause if you are using the argument that it isn't fair to compare northern teams to southern teams in FCS due to location of recruiting grounds then it isn't any more fair to argue about it between the B1G and SEC. The only fair way to make comparisons when talking about these things is by division, because then everyone has the same rules. That's why there are divisions FFS.
I'd say "Southern Speed" is more prevalent at FBS. For reasons he stated. All our great FCS teams keep moving up
[img] http://www.csusports.com/sports/fball/2 ... 325380900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[img]
User avatar
bucs90
Level2
Level2
Posts: 973
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:43 pm
I am a fan of: Charleston Southern

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by bucs90 »

Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:
bucs90 wrote:

100% true. Never argued otherwise. I wasn't the person who brought "Southern Speed" into this BTW. And I have nothing but total respect for NDSU. Yall are 5x defending champs. Clearly the #1 team and program in FCS.

Same rules of course. But FCS is seen different down here. We aren't the big show in town like NDSU or Montana. We also barely even have D3 whereas up North D3 is very popular.


Anyway....cant wait for the game. We really are grateful for NDSU giving us this showcase game. Hope we can make it a good one!












It should be a great atmosphere. I love watching option/veer football, so having CSU run it out of the gun will be fun to watch.

Will Chadwell bring the team to the sideline to watch the championship banner be raised?

The Ferris State coach wanted his players to see what it looks like to motivate his team to make that a goal for them.
I hope he doesn't. I hope they don't watch the team entrance either. They need to treat it like "just another tough game". To see all that makes it seem like it's not, creates such a spectacle and distraction. CSU needs to put in ear plugs and pretend Coastal changed into green and yellow...and just play ball.

NDSU does have, by far,,the best entrance in FCS. And a top 20 entrance in all of D1. (Clemson has #1 imo)
[img] http://www.csusports.com/sports/fball/2 ... 325380900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[img]
BigSouthJunkie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:38 am

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by BigSouthJunkie »

Thumper 76 wrote:So, southern teams are incapable of finding recruits outside of the south is what you are saying? That maybe they are too caught up in the idea of southern speed? And don't give me this its too far out of our area garbage. SDSU regularly has kids from AZ on their team as well.

The funny part to me is you BSJunkie, tried to argue that CSU will do well against NDSU because of southern speed, then when shown that southern speed is a junk phrase are the FCS level, it's now unfair that the northern teams don't get recruited in their areas as heavily, making comparisons between southern schools and northern schools unfair due to their locations and school make up. What's it gunna be? Is CSU good because of Southern Speed? Or is the reality that at FCS level it doesn't matter. Cause if you are using the argument that it isn't fair to compare northern teams to southern teams in FCS due to location of recruiting grounds then it isn't any more fair to argue about it between the B1G and SEC. The only fair way to make comparisons when talking about these things is by division, because then everyone has the same rules. That's why there are divisions FFS.
FCS teams don't have the budget nor resources to recruit guys that far out of area. From what I know, Presbyterian, CSU, Gardner-Webb all send coaches out in rental cars and go down to Florida, no further west than Alabama (long shot) and no further up than Virginia. Except maybe the guys at Liberty or Coastal with all that money. Look at CSU's facilities. You think they're first class'ing coaches to South Dakota to recruit guys? No.

As for SOUTHERN SPEED, one of the other guys on the chat that love to drop that saying brought it up. Me nor Bucs90 brought it up. I mentioned CSU's quick agile D-Line. I don't even think they are a particularly fast team. They are just exceptionally coached and sound, with a good offensive scheme and a stingy defense.
User avatar
Gil Dobie
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 31121
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:45 pm
I am a fan of: Norse Dakota State
Location: Historic Leduc Estate

Re: IT'S ON! Official Charleston Southern @ N Dakota St thread!

Post by Gil Dobie »

bucs90 wrote:
clenz wrote:Souther speed is a complete myth outside of the SEC and ACC
Sort of. But let's say we took 10,000 random high school football players age 16 to 18 from N Dakota, Montana, Iowa, Minnesota. Then we took 10,000 random players from Georgia, SC, Florida, Alabama.

Between the two....which group would have the better average 40 yd dash and 20 yd shuttle times?

Thats the "Southern Speed" thing. And no it doesn't always mean a win. But it isn't a myth. And to be blunt....the US Census shows over 55% of African-American live in the 9 Southern states. That's another reason for it.
You are right, it's not the same. Population for the 4 southern states is 4 times the population for the 4 northern states mentioned. I've been down south in the winter. Lots of kids outside playing ball in the parks, while up north it depends on gym time. Hugh advantage for the southern athletes. The South has numbers and weather on it's side.

ND, Montana, Minnesota, Iowa population, 10.3 Million
Georgia, SC, Florida, Alabama population, 39.6 Million
Image
Post Reply