America's Demographic Reckoning

[Pwns]

Not an article, just my own little spiel...

This is the bottom line when it comes to immigration and demographics: our fastest-growing demographic groups are those that have the lowest educational attainment and job skills. When you look at the demographics of people born this decade, it doesn't bode well for America's future in the 21st century economy.

I don't claim I know why the disparities exist between whites and blacks and Hispanics (I have my theories), but I have zero confidence that money and enthusiasm and more no-child-left-behind thinking is going to fix fvcked up minority neighborhoods and schools, as do most objective people.

This is the big conundrum you're not going to hear about from either party, both of which use the immigration issue to their advantage. And no one will really bring up this conundrum because they'll just be accused of saying the darkies will destroy America.

Just my

[BDKJMU]

We will become more and more balkanized by race in this country..

[Skjellyfetti]

Meh.

People said the same about Irish, Polish, Jews etc. last century. Not to mention Chinese.














But, if you believe this pwns - why aren't you on the Trump train? Seems the most vocal advocate for this position we've had in decades. If this is the issue that ends the experiment - why aren't you with Trump?

[Pwns]

But, if you believe this pwns - why aren't you on the Trump train? Seems the most vocal advocate for this position we've had in decades. If this is the issue that ends the experiment - why aren't you with Trump?

If you could remove every Hispanic person in this country you would probably make things worse in both the short term and the long term. Our agricultural productivity would collapse and we'd basically be like Japan with our population headed towards a cliff and a dire pension crisis. Neither Trump's dumb wall idea or his deportation plans would do any good.

Non-Asian minority groups getting left behind in terms of education and job training is going to bite us hard in the ass down the road. If you think I'm basically a Jason Richwine on this issue you're wrong. I'm just not a jelly-brained liberal that thinks beefing up head start and welfare and No Child Left Behind is going to do anything.

BTW, Even if there was a comparable education/skills gap between the people in America and the Irish and Italian immigrants in the 19th century (I doubt there was), the global economy is very different today than it was back then.

[Skjellyfetti]

If you could remove every Hispanic person in this country you would probably make things worse in both the short term and the long term. Our agricultural productivity would collapse and we'd basically be like Japan with our population headed towards a cliff and a dire pension crisis. Neither Trump's dumb wall idea or his deportation plans would do any good.

Ok.

We're on the same page on that.

But, what is your solution then?

Non-Asian minority groups getting left behind in terms of education and job training is going to bite us hard in the ass down the road. If you think I'm basically a Jason Richwine on this issue you're wrong. I'm just not a jelly-brained liberal that thinks beefing up head start and welfare and No Child Left Behind is going to do anything.

But, weren't Asian minority groups left behind in the late 1800s, early 1900s? In many cases they were worse off than free blacks.

And, how the hell is No Child Left Behind a liberal policy? Passed (wrongly) bipartisanly. Signed into law by Dubya. Obama ended it. It certainly has both liberal and conservative critics and was a terrible law... but, I'm not so sure it was a "liberal" law. It was a shitty compromise.

BTW, Even if there was a comparable education/skills gap between the people in America and the Irish and Italian immigrants in the 19th century (I doubt there was), the global economy is very different today than it was back then.

And, the economy will be very different now than it will be 75 years from now.

It took a few decades to reap the benefits of Irish, Polish, Jewish, Chinese, etc. immigrants. They provided manual labor and did shit the rest of us didn't want to do for a generation or two. Now... there ain't much difference (recent immigrants not withstanding).

Immigration doesn't necessarily provide an immediate boost to a country. I'll give you that. But, it does provide a boost over the long run and we've benefited as a country IMMENSELY.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

But, if you believe this pwns - why aren't you on the Trump train? Seems the most vocal advocate for this position we've had in decades. If this is the issue that ends the experiment - why aren't you with Trump?

If you could remove every Hispanic person in this country you would probably make things worse in both the short term and the long term. Our agricultural productivity would collapse and we'd basically be like Japan with our population headed towards a cliff and a dire pension crisis. Neither Trump's dumb wall idea or his deportation plans would do any good.

Non-Asian minority groups getting left behind in terms of education and job training is going to bite us hard in the ass down the road. If you think I'm basically a Jason Richwine on this issue you're wrong. I'm just not a jelly-brained liberal that thinks beefing up head start and welfare and No Child Left Behind is going to do anything.

BTW, Even if there was a comparable education/skills gap between the people in America and the Irish and Italian immigrants in the 19th century (I doubt there was), the global economy is very different today than it was back then.

100% total BULLSHIT

If you removed every hispanic from the USA the American middle class would return in full force and workers would enjoy being able to take care of their families again.

Its a fu*king lie that we need these low income workers, its good for the rich corporations that people like you and KY jelly believe those lies.

[Chizzang]

100% total BULLSHIT

If you removed every hispanic from the USA the American middle class would return in full force and workers would enjoy being able to take care of their families again.

Its a fu*king lie that we need these low income workers, its good for the rich corporations that people like you and KY jelly believe those lies.

I think you're mostly correct...
But things would get considerably more expensive
Countries like Italy with only 2 % immigrant workers have very expensive economies but have survived

it can be done

[Pwns]

And, how the hell is No Child Left Behind a liberal policy? Passed (wrongly) bipartisanly. Signed into law by Dubya. Obama ended it. It certainly has both liberal and conservative critics and was a terrible law... but, I'm not so sure it was a "liberal" law. It was a shitty compromise.

You are right that NCLB is non-partisan, but it's been the Democrats that want to expand funding for it. The point is that the typical liberal solution to these problems is to spend more money.

And, the economy will be very different now than it will be 75 years from now.

It took a few decades to reap the benefits of Irish, Polish, Jewish, Chinese, etc. immigrants. They provided manual labor and did shit the rest of us didn't want to do for a generation or two. Now... there ain't much difference (recent immigrants not withstanding).

Immigration doesn't necessarily provide an immediate boost to a country. I'll give you that. But, it does provide a boost over the long run and we've benefited as a country IMMENSELY.

The economy probably will be different 75 years from now. I seriously doubt that high-level technical skills and job training are going to somehow be less important than they are today. Unless somehow we end up at a 19th century level of technology by then.

Honestly, I'm not even looking that far down the road. I'm just talking 20-30 years from now. How many are going to have a college education and technical skills for the type of jobs America really needs to be competitive across the world? Whites are now around 50% of the babies that are born. If the rates that blacks and hispanics get college educations and advanced skills continues it won't be pretty. Whether we've got a George Jetson future ahead in 75 years or whether technology won't be much better than it is today, it's something that needs to be addressed.

[Pwns]

100% total BULLSHIT

If you removed every hispanic from the USA the American middle class would return in full force and workers would enjoy being able to take care of their families again.

Its a fu*king lie that we need these low income workers, its good for the rich corporations that people like you and KY jelly believe those lies.

I think you're mostly correct...
But things would get considerably more expensive
Countries like Italy with only 2 % immigrant workers have very expensive economies but have survived

it can be done

Yeah....

How much do you think you'll pay for steaks and produce if farmers have to raise their wages in order to get white people to work in their fields?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

OH NO!

The employers have to pay a little more for services that make them a fu*k pile of money! Oh no, now the big bad CEO only gets a 40 million dollar bonus instead of 60 million.

If they raise the price too much people wont buy it, business owners know that so they will be forced to make the decision to pay their workers more or lose more of their profit margin by not selling or providing services they provide. It just takes enough people to stand up and quit eating their lies like they are Krispy Kremes.

Its pretty simple economics, if you have more jobs than potential workers pay goes up.....look at ND and the Bakken Oil boom

[houndawg]

OH NO!

The employers have to pay a little more for services that make them a fu*k pile of money! Oh no, now the big bad CEO only gets a 40 million dollar bonus instead of 60 million.

If they raise the price too much people wont buy it, business owners know that so they will be forced to make the decision to pay their workers more or lose more of their profit margin by not selling or providing services they provide. It just takes enough people to stand up and quit eating their lies like they are Krispy Kremes.

Its pretty simple economics, if you have more jobs than potential workers pay goes up.....look at ND and the Bakken Oil boom

Yeah. Look at them now.

[houndawg]

I think you're mostly correct...
But things would get considerably more expensive
Countries like Italy with only 2 % immigrant workers have very expensive economies but have survived

it can be done

Yeah....

How much do you think you'll pay for steaks and produce if farmers have to raise their wages in order to get white people to work in their fields?

This is a wonderful trend for people like me.
As prices for steaks and produce rise more small acreages will be put into production for local markets. The locavore movement is contributing to this trend already.

[CID1990]

100% total BULLSHIT

If you removed every hispanic from the USA the American middle class would return in full force and workers would enjoy being able to take care of their families again.

Its a fu*king lie that we need these low income workers, its good for the rich corporations that people like you and KY jelly believe those lies.

I think you're mostly correct...
But things would get considerably more expensive
Countries like Italy with only 2 % immigrant workers have very expensive economies but have survived

it can be done

Italy's CHEAP again too

I was blown away how little I spent in Rome and Orvieto back in April.

Maybe that was because Lagos is comparatively so expensive

[CID1990]

Yeah....

How much do you think you'll pay for steaks and produce if farmers have to raise their wages in order to get white people to work in their fields?

This is a wonderful trend for people like me.
As prices for steaks and produce rise more small acreages will be put into production for local markets. The locavore movement is contributing to this trend already.

Yep. The small farmer isn't coming back- he's ALREADY back.

Plus with volatile fuel prices and the "farm to table" fad in the restaurants it is becoming more profitable to not be one of those mega farmers

[Baldy]

And, the economy will be very different now than it will be 75 years from now.

It took a few decades to reap the benefits of Irish, Polish, Jewish, Chinese, etc. immigrants. They provided manual labor and did shit the rest of us didn't want to do for a generation or two. Now... there ain't much difference (recent immigrants not withstanding).

Immigration doesn't necessarily provide an immediate boost to a country. I'll give you that. But, it does provide a boost over the long run and we've benefited as a country IMMENSELY.

You forgot the most important difference between then and now.
Immigrants back in the day assimilated themselves into American culture. That doesn't happen anymore.

To quote klam's favorite Conk:

But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.

--Teddy Roosevelt

[Skjellyfetti]

Huh?

They didn't assimilate immediately. It took a generation or two. Why do you think Teddy Roosevelt was saying this....?

Look at 2nd or 3rd generation Mexican immigrants. Chinese immigrants. etc. They're largely assimilated today... There are, of course, pockets that have always refused to assimilate (see Gullah in your neck of the woods, Amish, etc. - but, they're very small pockets).

I agree that immigrants would benefit from speaking English. And, that should be encouraged as much as possible. I agree somewhat with Teddy's statement. Though, I don't see why people couldn't speak both English and their native language. If the economy has changed in the last 100 years - the need for more bilingual speakers is also a product of that and we should do a better job teaching foreign languages - especially Chinese, Russian, and Spanish.

[YoUDeeMan]

If you could remove every Hispanic person in this country you would probably make things worse in both the short term and the long term. Our agricultural productivity would collapse and we'd basically be like Japan with our population headed towards a cliff and a dire pension crisis.

Good grief, you are a moran.

We'd adapt.

Alpha just schooled you...and you are believing a lie.

The reason we are in this position is because we have been sold a false dream. That is a marketing angle...an intentional one...from the wealthy land owners and their political henchmen.

Take it to the end game...if we continually need more immigrants to come into this to help out the old people...then what happens when will fill the planet?

Oooops!

We have what we need on this planet and in this country. And, if we weren't so involved in being drones, we'd have more time for our families, which would increase our birth rate. But that isn't what people want...at least that isn't what we've been told we want.

This is not a mistake.

[Pwns]

If you could remove every Hispanic person in this country you would probably make things worse in both the short term and the long term. Our agricultural productivity would collapse and we'd basically be like Japan with our population headed towards a cliff and a dire pension crisis.

Good grief, you are a moran.

We'd adapt.

Alpha just schooled you...and you are believing a lie.

The reason we are in this position is because we have been sold a false dream. That is a marketing angle...an intentional one...from the wealthy land owners and their political henchmen.

Take it to the end game...if we continually need more immigrants to come into this to help out the old people...then what happens when will fill the planet?

Oooops!

We have what we need on this planet and in this country. And, if we weren't so involved in being drones, we'd have more time for our families, which would increase our birth rate. But that isn't what people want...at least that isn't what we've been told we want.

This is not a mistake.

Of course we would adapt, Cluck. Doesn't mean it isn't a big problem.

Where did I say I was advocating perpetual population growth? The problem is that you had the baby boom and then our birth rates dropped off a cliff and today white birth rates are below replacement rates.

[YoUDeeMan]

Good grief, you are a moran.

We'd adapt.

Alpha just schooled you...and you are believing a lie.

The reason we are in this position is because we have been sold a false dream. That is a marketing angle...an intentional one...from the wealthy land owners and their political henchmen.

Take it to the end game...if we continually need more immigrants to come into this to help out the old people...then what happens when will fill the planet?

Oooops!

We have what we need on this planet and in this country. And, if we weren't so involved in being drones, we'd have more time for our families, which would increase our birth rate. But that isn't what people want...at least that isn't what we've been told we want.

This is not a mistake.

Of course we would adapt, Cluck. Doesn't mean it isn't a big problem.

Where did I say I was advocating perpetual population growth? The problem is that you had the baby boom and then our birth rates dropped off a cliff and today white birth rates are below replacement rates.

There are always problems...and people use those to scare others into being compliant.

Just deal with it. We have enough physical things in this country to make older people's retirements a good life.

As far as you mentioning perpetual growth...you alluded to it. There have always been drop offs of population...disease, war, famine. Then, we (as humans) have always rebounded.

No need to drive artificial population growth with more immigration. Technology today is replacing workers...and don't give me the BS about humans not being able to replace farm workers. That argument went south a long time ago.

Make the right things a priority, instead of warmongering, and the majority of domestic problems would be solved.

But, we've been sold another story.

[SDHornet]

Wait, did someone post about getting whites back out into the agribusiness game as laborers?

Make cranking out babies more beneficial for those with the means (i.e. fix the tax code), and less beneficial for the leaches (limit the payout for welfare babies) and maybe the birth rate can turn around.

[houndawg]

Wait, did someone post about getting whites back out into the agribusiness game as laborers?

Make cranking out babies more beneficial for those with the means (i.e. fix the tax code), and less beneficial for the leaches (limit the payout for welfare babies) and maybe the birth rate can turn around.

They're already back, like CID said, and they're working their own land.

[houndawg]

This is a wonderful trend for people like me.
As prices for steaks and produce rise more small acreages will be put into production for local markets. The locavore movement is contributing to this trend already.

Yep. The small farmer isn't coming back- he's ALREADY back.

Plus with volatile fuel prices and the "farm to table" fad in the restaurants it is becoming more profitable to not be one of those mega farmers

the big guys are pretty much employees of Monsanto for practical purposes, and it takes a few years off letting your ground go fallow to break the cycle of glyphosphate-ready seeds.

[kalm]

OH NO!

The employers have to pay a little more for services that make them a fu*k pile of money! Oh no, now the big bad CEO only gets a 40 million dollar bonus instead of 60 million.

If they raise the price too much people wont buy it, business owners know that so they will be forced to make the decision to pay their workers more or lose more of their profit margin by not selling or providing services they provide. It just takes enough people to stand up and quit eating their lies like they are Krispy Kremes.

Its pretty simple economics, if you have more jobs than potential workers pay goes up.....look at ND and the Bakken Oil boom

AG1 knocking it out of the park here.

[Chizzang]

I think you're mostly correct...
But things would get considerably more expensive
Countries like Italy with only 2 % immigrant workers have very expensive economies but have survived

it can be done

Italy's CHEAP again too

I was blown away how little I spent in Rome and Orvieto back in April.

Maybe that was because Lagos is comparatively so expensive

I just got back from Italy for three weeks and FOOD IS CHEAP
But everything else is very high

Food is inexpensive because Italians believe it is a human right - as part of their historical culture
and because they think it's "offensive" to over charge for food
All Italians know what it costs to make food
and they think American (NYC) food prices should be a national embarrassment to us all

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Food is way more expensive where I am at right now than NYC