Abortion provider George Tiller shot to death

[Cap'n Cat]

Keep on talking, Joe. You prove our point with every rat-a-tat-tat of your keyboard.

You don't have a point. The only point proven here is that you and your brother cannot tolerate an opposing viewpoint, and you cannot hold up your end of the debate without resorting to name calling. And let's face it, you guys aren't that smart.

Yep, in your world, you're right, Joe. It ain't an opposing view thing, mon frere, it's simply entertaining sport watching you writhe like this.

Nothing else.

[JoltinJoe]

You don't have a point. The only point proven here is that you and your brother cannot tolerate an opposing viewpoint, and you cannot hold up your end of the debate without resorting to name calling. And let's face it, you guys aren't that smart.

Yep, in your world, you're right, Joe. It ain't an opposing view thing, mon frere, it's simply entertaining sport watching you writhe like this.

Nothing else.

I'm not writhing. I just appreciate fair debate ... if this is sport to you, it's not obvious sometimes.

Honestly, it seems like you're a great guy most of the time ... so if you think this bothers me, you shouldn't do it.

[Cap'n Cat]

Yep, in your world, you're right, Joe. It ain't an opposing view thing, mon frere, it's simply entertaining sport watching you writhe like this.

Nothing else.

I'm not writhing. I just appreciate fair debate ... if this is sport to you, it's not obvious sometimes.

Honestly, it seems like you're a great guy most of the time ... so if you think this bothers me, you shouldn't do it.

Ok, then I'll commit to a wholesale change.

[JoltinJoe]

I'm not writhing. I just appreciate fair debate ... if this is sport to you, it's not obvious sometimes.

Honestly, it seems like you're a great guy most of the time ... so if you think this bothers me, you shouldn't do it.

Ok, then I'll commit to a wholesale change.

Wow. So now you believe in God??

[D1B]

Keep on talking, Joe. You prove our point with every rat-a-tat-tat of your keyboard.

You don't have a point. The only point proven here is that you and your brother cannot tolerate an opposing viewpoint, and you cannot hold up your end of the debate without resorting to name calling. And let's face it, you guys aren't that smart.

Whoa, did someone see a "debate" here?

I didn't.

There's nothing to debate.

Still waiting for:

1. Hitler Quotes

2. Why don't the Jews dig jesus

[Cap'n Cat]

Aw, we three should lay off each other. Joe's right. If there is one thing I learned from and agree with at AGS, it is the notion of taking away from another poster's ability to enjoy the forum. I am corrected.

[D1B]

Aw, we three should lay off each other. Joe's right. If there is one thing I learned from and agree with at AGS, it is the notion of taking away from another poster's ability to enjoy the forum. I am corrected.

Pussy.

Joltin Joke is a dangerous, god-drunk fuckhead. If the pope told him to slit your throat, he would, without hesitation.

[JoltinJoe]

Aw, we three should lay off each other. Joe's right. If there is one thing I learned from and agree with at AGS, it is the notion of taking away from another poster's ability to enjoy the forum. I am corrected.

Pussy.

Joltin Joke is a dangerous, god-drunk ****. If the pope told him to slit your throat, he would, without hesitation.

Not true at all. I would never slit Cappy's throat, even if the Pope told me.

Now, you, that's a different story.

[D1B]

Pussy.

Joltin Joke is a dangerous, god-drunk ****. If the pope told him to slit your throat, he would, without hesitation.

Not true at all. I would never slit Cappy's throat, even if the Pope told me.

Now, you, that's a different story.

Joe, you wouldn't lay a finger on me. You love me.

Ok, so let's disucuss. What's your problem with Tiller. Seemed to be a good man and a christian.

[JoltinJoe]

Not true at all. I would never slit Cappy's throat, even if the Pope told me.

Now, you, that's a different story.

Joe, you wouldn't lay a finger on me. You love me.

Ok, so let's disucuss. What's your problem with Tiller. Seemed to be a good man and a christian.

I don't know that he was a good man, but nothing good can come from discussing why. We'll never see eye-to-eye on the point. He is not mine to judge. I shouldn't have called him a disgrace. Obviously, I don't approve of what he did for a living.

I was sorry to see him gunned down, especially in a church, especially in front of his family. As I said earlier, I'm fine with non-violent civil disobedience on abortion issues, but violence which endangers (or takes) the lives of clinic workers is not acceptable under any circumstances. I remember that some guy shot up a clinic in Massachusetts some years back; killed a college-aged receptionist, some assistants ... argued that it was justified. How? Why? If you are going to take a life and argue it is justified, you have to prove (to me at least) that your actions saved an actual, identifable life and that the life was in imminent danger. These guys who engage in violence like this, and then argue it is justified, cannot point to one life that they have saved (and in this regard I am counting the fetus as a life). Tiller is gone, someone else will take his place, no life was saved. The violence against Tiller was not justified; it saved no lives; it was an act borne of out of anger and revenge for what he done in the past. It had no impact on the future.

[Cap'n Cat]

Good thought, Jose'.


You know, looking over this thread, I'm embarrassed for all the name calling and shitty comments. My apologies. I'm gonna watch myself.

[JoltinJoe]

Good thought, Jose'.


You know, looking over this thread, I'm embarrassed for all the name calling and shitty comments. My apologies. I'm gonna watch myself.

We're cool again. Thanks for your kind words.

[BlueHen86]

Joe, you wouldn't lay a finger on me. You love me.

Ok, so let's disucuss. What's your problem with Tiller. Seemed to be a good man and a christian.

I don't know that he was a good man, but nothing good can come from discussing why. We'll never see eye-to-eye on the point. He is not mine to judge. I shouldn't have called him a disgrace. Obviously, I don't approve of what he did for a living.

I was sorry to see him gunned down, especially in a church, especially in front of his family. As I said earlier, I'm fine with non-violent civil disobedience on abortion issues, but violence which endangers (or takes) the lives of clinic workers is not acceptable under any circumstances. I remember that some guy shot up a clinic in Massachusetts some years back; killed a college-aged receptionist, some assistants ... argued that it was justified. How? Why? If you are going to take a life and argue it is justified, you have to prove (to me at least) that your actions saved an actual, identifable life and that the life was in imminent danger. These guys who engage in violence like this, and then argue it is justified, cannot point to one life that they have saved (and in this regard I am counting the fetus as a life). Tiller is gone, someone else will take his place, no life was saved. The violence against Tiller was not justified; it saved no lives; it was an act borne of out of anger and revenge for what he done in the past. It had no impact on the future.

Good post Joe.

[D1B]

Joe, you wouldn't lay a finger on me. You love me.

Ok, so let's disucuss. What's your problem with Tiller. Seemed to be a good man and a christian.

I don't know that he was a good man, but nothing good can come from discussing why. We'll never see eye-to-eye on the point. He is not mine to judge. I shouldn't have called him a disgrace. Obviously, I don't approve of what he did for a living.

I was sorry to see him gunned down, especially in a church, especially in front of his family. As I said earlier, I'm fine with non-violent civil disobedience on abortion issues, but violence which endangers (or takes) the lives of clinic workers is not acceptable under any circumstances. I remember that some guy shot up a clinic in Massachusetts some years back; killed a college-aged receptionist, some assistants ... argued that it was justified. How? Why? If you are going to take a life and argue it is justified, you have to prove (to me at least) that your actions saved an actual, identifable life and that the life was in imminent danger. These guys who engage in violence like this, and then argue it is justified, cannot point to one life that they have saved (and in this regard I am counting the fetus as a life). Tiller is gone, someone else will take his place, no life was saved. The violence against Tiller was not justified; it saved no lives; it was an act borne of out of anger and revenge for what he done in the past. It had no impact on the future.

Thanks for retracting the disgrace comment, which is what pissed me off. It's also a milder form of blind hatred that produces the people like his killer.

Tiller, to many, was a lifesaver and angel of mercy.

[catamount man]

I don't know that he was a good man, but nothing good can come from discussing why. We'll never see eye-to-eye on the point. He is not mine to judge. I shouldn't have called him a disgrace. Obviously, I don't approve of what he did for a living.

I was sorry to see him gunned down, especially in a church, especially in front of his family. As I said earlier, I'm fine with non-violent civil disobedience on abortion issues, but violence which endangers (or takes) the lives of clinic workers is not acceptable under any circumstances. I remember that some guy shot up a clinic in Massachusetts some years back; killed a college-aged receptionist, some assistants ... argued that it was justified. How? Why? If you are going to take a life and argue it is justified, you have to prove (to me at least) that your actions saved an actual, identifable life and that the life was in imminent danger. These guys who engage in violence like this, and then argue it is justified, cannot point to one life that they have saved (and in this regard I am counting the fetus as a life). Tiller is gone, someone else will take his place, no life was saved. The violence against Tiller was not justified; it saved no lives; it was an act borne of out of anger and revenge for what he done in the past. It had no impact on the future.

Thanks for retracting the disgrace comment, which is what pissed me off. It's also a milder form of blind hatred that produces the people like his killer.

Tiller, to many, was a lifesaver and angel of mercy.

most babies after the late term starts can successfully live despite the diatribe from NARAL, planned parenthood and other cultish sects of their ilk. Tiller was a MURDERER plain and simple.

[JoltinJoe]

Thanks for retracting the disgrace comment, which is what pissed me off. It's also a milder form of blind hatred that produces the people like his killer.

I agree you have to be careful with the language. Saying something like "abortion is murder" ultimately invites an unbalanced person to violence.

Some years back now, I had a discussion with an old girlfriend who was and remains very active in the pro-life movement. She was ok with the "abortion is murder" line, which surprised me.

I told her I didn't agree. First, to say abortion is murder is not true. Under the penal code of every jurisdiction, murder is defined as a premeditated and deliberate taking of a human life. If you kill in a fit of rage, it is not murder, it is manslaughter. If you kill someone with an accidental act, it is not murder and it may not be a criminal act at all. In order to be guilty of murder, you have to take a human life with a deliberate and premeditated act. Therefore, if the doctor performing an abortion does not believe that the fetus is a "human life," you cannot say he committed murder, because he did not have any intent to take a human life. To call him a murderer is not accurate; it is rhetoric, and not even hyperbolic rhetoric, because the statement is not true at all.

She said nonetheless she felt the rhetoric was necessary because of the need to educate women and doctors as to the urgency of the issue. But I said it was wrong to use a false statement to educate; a false statement cannot be educational. And even more problematic, the false statement can lead to violence.

Eventually, she came around and agreed with me. She is today still active with a group which never resorts to such language -- which she says remains my influence on her.

[D1B]

Thanks for retracting the disgrace comment, which is what pissed me off. It's also a milder form of blind hatred that produces the people like his killer.

I agree you have to be careful with the language. Saying something like "abortion is murder" ultimately invites an unbalanced person to violence.

Some years back now, I had a discussion with an old girlfriend who was and remains very active in the pro-life movement. She was ok with the "abortion is murder" line, which surprised me.

I told her I didn't agree. First, to say abortion is murder is not true. Under the penal code of every jurisdiction, murder is defined as a premeditated and deliberate taking of a human life. If you kill in a fit of rage, it is not murder, it is manslaughter. If you kill someone with an accidental act, it is not murder and it may not be a criminal act at all. In order to be guilty of murder, you have to take a human life with a deliberate and premeditated act. Therefore, if the doctor performing an abortion does not believe that the fetus is a "human life," you cannot say he committed murder, because he did not have any intent to take a human life. To call him a murderer is not accurate; it is rhetoric, and not even hyperbolic rhetoric, because the statement is not true at all.

She said nonetheless she felt the rhetoric was necessary because of the need to educate women and doctors as to the urgency of the issue. But I said it was wrong to use a false statement to educate; a false statement cannot be educational. And even more problematic, the false statement can lead to violence.

Eventually, she came around and agreed with me. She is today still active with a group which never resorts to such language -- which she says remains my influence on her.

Good post Joe. What's your beef with unbalanced people!

[Cap'n Cat]

Thanks for retracting the disgrace comment, which is what pissed me off. It's also a milder form of blind hatred that produces the people like his killer.

Tiller, to many, was a lifesaver and angel of mercy.

most babies after the late term starts can successfully live despite the diatribe from NARAL, planned parenthood and other cultish sects of their ilk. Tiller was a MURDERER plain and simple.

Man. And I thought I was the board asshole.

[catamount man]

most babies after the late term starts can successfully live despite the diatribe from NARAL, planned parenthood and other cultish sects of their ilk. Tiller was a MURDERER plain and simple.

Man. And I thought I was the board *******.

You are!

[Cap'n Cat]

Man. And I thought I was the board *******.

You are!

You know, he's right.