Election 2016: Trump vs Clinton

[slycat]

I guess what Skelly is talking about is how Trump gets defended by proxy when Clinton is criticized

To be honest- here's how I rank the candidates in terms of who I would like to see as President, in rank order:

1. Gary Johnson
2. Donald Trump
3. Bernie Sanders
4. Jill Stein
5. Al Sharpton
.
.
.
452. Bill Clinton
453. Kim Jong Un
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
976. My stupid liberal aunt
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2314. Beelzebub
,
.
.
.
.
.
.
1325674. Hillary Clinton


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like your list but put Trump one spot below Hillary or tied with her.

[CAA Flagship]

Hey AZ. I think you may like Trump a little more now.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump ... tml?ref=gs

"He is such a phony," Reid said today in an interview with CNN after Trump said he believed President Obama was born in the United States but falsely accused Hillary Clinton of spreading the theory in her 2008 presidential campaign.

Reid also predicted Trump would lose the election, and called him an "absolute fraud."

Speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill on Tuesday, the Nevada Democrat called for more scrutiny of the 70-year-old Republican's health.

"He complains about her health. What does he do? He’s 70 years old, he’s not slim and trim," Reid said, after defending Hillary Clinton as she recovered from pneumonia off the campaign trail.

Asked about Reid's comments in an interview with The Washington Post, Trump mocked Reid's recent injury.

"Harry Reid? I think he should go back and start working out again with his rubber work-out pieces," he said in the interview published Thursday.

[slycat]

My fear with this shitty election is that the next one will be even shittier.

If Hillary wins, which I assume she will at this point, the liberals will think they have won but the long term damage to the party isn't worth her winning. For starters, the Alt-Right will really lose their shit to sit through another four years of liberal policy. But more importantly, I don't think she will win reelection and the Conks will put out someone far more awful than Trump. It'll be a Cruz like worm that actually knows how to pass really really shitty policies. A Clinton win basically means that the Conks will rain down hellfire with their next victory.

The one positive I see to her winning is that the Congress will very quickly approve Obamas nomination for the Supreme Court. I am happy to a more moderate guy in there that will actually understand policy, like Justice Kennedy, and not vote down party lines. Because any replacement that Hillary or Trump get a say in will be a very shitty Justice that will swing policy in favor of a party and not the Constitution.

If Trump wins I fail to see any positives. He has a very short temper and no idea what he is doing. The guys he has around him are shady as hell. The guy with Russian connections, the creepy ex-FoxNews head, guys with ties to white power groups, etc. But the biggest problem is the far left will really push back. Look at the riots around his rallies. We will be around for some really shitty protests and possibly worse for four years. He seems to have no idea how to talk allies.

In the end we all lose no matter who wins. These are easily the most divisive candidates yet. We can't get members of Congress to work together and it will become much much worse under both of these leaders.

I have enjoyed watching the establishments fail but it's sad it failed to the point where both parties refuse to see that we are sick of what they stand for instead of trying to evolve. So we get stuck with a joke ont he Conk side and a puppet on the Donk side. The Donks should have realized 8 years ago that no one wanted Hillary when she couldn't beat Obama. This time they gave her zero competition and expected her to win easily. Instead Bernie, a major outsider, gave her a run for her money. It's shocking to see how they still don't realize that no one wants her. The claim people do based on the fact she won but thats because they gave no options and the lower voter turnout proves they were wrong in putting everything behind her in the first place. The Dems are so desperate to have Hillary fulfill her destiny they destroyed the party while doing it.

[CAA Flagship]

My fear with this shitty election is that the next one will be even shittier.

[kalm]

My fear with this shitty election is that the next one will be even shittier.

If Hillary wins, which I assume she will at this point, the liberals will think they have won but the long term damage to the party isn't worth her winning. For starters, the Alt-Right will really lose their shit to sit through another four years of liberal policy. But more importantly, I don't think she will win reelection and the Conks will put out someone far more awful than Trump. It'll be a Cruz like worm that actually knows how to pass really really shitty policies. A Clinton win basically means that the Conks will rain down hellfire with their next victory.

The one positive I see to her winning is that the Congress will very quickly approve Obamas nomination for the Supreme Court. I am happy to a more moderate guy in there that will actually understand policy, like Justice Kennedy, and not vote down party lines. Because any replacement that Hillary or Trump get a say in will be a very shitty Justice that will swing policy in favor of a party and not the Constitution.

If Trump wins I fail to see any positives. He has a very short temper and no idea what he is doing. The guys he has around him are shady as hell. The guy with Russian connections, the creepy ex-FoxNews head, guys with ties to white power groups, etc. But the biggest problem is the far left will really push back. Look at the riots around his rallies. We will be around for some really shitty protests and possibly worse for four years. He seems to have no idea how to talk allies.

In the end we all lose no matter who wins. These are easily the most divisive candidates yet. We can't get members of Congress to work together and it will become much much worse under both of these leaders.

I have enjoyed watching the establishments fail but it's sad it failed to the point where both parties refuse to see that we are sick of what they stand for instead of trying to evolve. So we get stuck with a joke ont he Conk side and a puppet on the Donk side. The Donks should have realized 8 years ago that no one wanted Hillary when she couldn't beat Obama. This time they gave her zero competition and expected her to win easily. Instead Bernie, a major outsider, gave her a run for her money. It's shocking to see how they still don't realize that no one wants her. The claim people do based on the fact she won but thats because they gave no options and the lower voter turnout proves they were wrong in putting everything behind her in the first place. The Dems are so desperate to have Hillary fulfill her destiny they destroyed the party while doing it.

You're confusing Hillary with a liberal. She's not.

[JohnStOnge]

You know today I was thinking about Ibanez saying I am in denial as I watched Trump lie again. To me the real problem with denial is the denial on the part of many millions of people in this country with respect to just how vile and dishonest a person Donald Trump is.

It's like the Politifact thing. Right now it's Trump with 71% of Statements being "Mostly False," "False" or "Pants on Fire" vs. Clinton with 28% in those categories. But the response of Trumpists is to go into denial by attacking Politifact.

So today Trump says that Hillary Clinton started the "birther" thing (a lie) then says he ended it (another lie). The second Statement is a Politifact "Pants on Fire" statement, by the way.

If you you cling to the idea that Clinton is more dishonest than Trump you are in denial. Trump is by FAR the more dishonest of the two. It's not even remotely close.

[JohnStOnge]

Just watched a montage of Trump "birther" statements on video into 2016 on "All in with Chris Hayes." It would make a great campaign commercial. Show Trump saying what he did today then show that montage. I'm sure I'm not the only one who noted that that sort of thing, once again showing what a bald faced liar Trump is, would make a great campaign commercial.

The guy just lies so much. I know it's cliche but the "every time he opens his mouth" thing really does apply here.

[kalm]

Just watched a montage of Trump "birther" statements on video into 2016 on "All in with Chris Hayes." It would make a great campaign commercial. Show Trump saying what he did today then show that montage. I'm sure I'm not the only one who noted that that sort of thing, once again showing what a bald faced liar Trump is, would make a great campaign commercial.

The guy just lies so much. I know it's cliche but the "every time he opens his mouth" thing really does apply here.

What's funny is you think more polished liars like David Vitter and Hillary somehow are less dishonest. Or that complete imbeciles like George Bush are less dangerous.

[93henfan]

I guess what Skelly is talking about is how Trump gets defended by proxy when Clinton is criticized

To be honest- here's how I rank the candidates in terms of who I would like to see as President, in rank order:

1. Gary Johnson
2. Donald Trump
3. Bernie Sanders
4. Jill Stein
5. Al Sharpton
.
.
.
452. Bill Clinton
453. Kim Jong Un
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
976. My stupid liberal aunt
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2314. Beelzebub
,
.
.
.
.
.
.
1325674. Hillary Clinton


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fucking so much this - just reverse 1 and 2, since Johnson has no chance and we can't afford Hillary in the White House.

[93henfan]

<snip>

You're confusing Hillary with a liberal. She's not.

Thank you.

[slycat]

You're confusing Hillary with a liberal. She's not.

Thank you.

Well she is repping the Dem party. The next election will push it to an Elizabeth Warren type like how the Republicans pushed further out.

I find it funny that Dems bashed the Reagan and Bushes for years and now cheer when their advisors are lining up behind Hillary and not Trump. That's a warning sign that she is not with you and more of a war hawk than you they will ever admit.

[93henfan]

Uh, YES PLEASE!!!

[CAA Flagship]

It's like the Politifact thing. Right now it's Trump with 71% of Statements being "Mostly False," "False" or "Pants on Fire" vs. Clinton with 28% in those categories. But the response of Trumpists is to go into denial by attacking Politifact.

Care to weight the lies? It's a bunch of Trumps 1's and 2's compared to Clinton's 9's and 10's. Who is the biggest liar then? It's like comparing a running back that gets 75 yards on 30 carries with one that gets 215 yards on 15 carries. Who had the better game?

[houndawg]

My fear with this shitty election is that the next one will be even shittier.

If Hillary wins, which I assume she will at this point, the liberals will think they have won but the long term damage to the party isn't worth her winning. For starters, the Alt-Right will really lose their **** to sit through another four years of liberal policy. But more importantly, I don't think she will win reelection and the Conks will put out someone far more awful than Trump. It'll be a Boobs like worm that actually knows how to pass really really shitty policies. A Clinton win basically means that the Conks will rain down hellfire with their next victory.

The one positive I see to her winning is that the Congress will very quickly approve Obamas nomination for the Supreme Court. I am happy to a more moderate guy in there that will actually understand policy, like Justice Kennedy, and not vote down party lines. Because any replacement that Hillary or Trump get a say in will be a very shitty Justice that will swing policy in favor of a party and not the Constitution.

If Trump wins I fail to see any positives. He has a very short temper and no idea what he is doing. The guys he has around him are shady as hell. The guy with Russian connections, the creepy ex-FoxNews head, guys with ties to white power groups, etc. But the biggest problem is the far left will really push back. Look at the riots around his rallies. We will be around for some really shitty protests and possibly worse for four years. He seems to have no idea how to talk allies.

In the end we all lose no matter who wins. These are easily the most divisive candidates yet. We can't get members of Congress to work together and it will become much much worse under both of these leaders.

I have enjoyed watching the establishments fail but it's sad it failed to the point where both parties refuse to see that we are sick of what they stand for instead of trying to evolve. So we get stuck with a joke ont he Conk side and a puppet on the Donk side. The Donks should have realized 8 years ago that no one wanted Hillary when she couldn't beat Obama. This time they gave her zero competition and expected her to win easily. Instead Bernie, a major outsider, gave her a run for her money. It's shocking to see how they still don't realize that no one wants her. The claim people do based on the fact she won but thats because they gave no options and the lower voter turnout proves they were wrong in putting everything behind her in the first place. The Dems are so desperate to have Hillary fulfill her destiny they destroyed the party while doing it.

I disagree with this. Hillary will be lucky to get half of those who call themselves Progressives and probably one out of three of them will vote third party.

[kalm]

My fear with this shitty election is that the next one will be even shittier.

If Hillary wins, which I assume she will at this point, the liberals will think they have won but the long term damage to the party isn't worth her winning. For starters, the Alt-Right will really lose their **** to sit through another four years of liberal policy. But more importantly, I don't think she will win reelection and the Conks will put out someone far more awful than Trump. It'll be a Boobs like worm that actually knows how to pass really really shitty policies. A Clinton win basically means that the Conks will rain down hellfire with their next victory.

The one positive I see to her winning is that the Congress will very quickly approve Obamas nomination for the Supreme Court. I am happy to a more moderate guy in there that will actually understand policy, like Justice Kennedy, and not vote down party lines. Because any replacement that Hillary or Trump get a say in will be a very shitty Justice that will swing policy in favor of a party and not the Constitution.

If Trump wins I fail to see any positives. He has a very short temper and no idea what he is doing. The guys he has around him are shady as hell. The guy with Russian connections, the creepy ex-FoxNews head, guys with ties to white power groups, etc. But the biggest problem is the far left will really push back. Look at the riots around his rallies. We will be around for some really shitty protests and possibly worse for four years. He seems to have no idea how to talk allies.

In the end we all lose no matter who wins. These are easily the most divisive candidates yet. We can't get members of Congress to work together and it will become much much worse under both of these leaders.

I have enjoyed watching the establishments fail but it's sad it failed to the point where both parties refuse to see that we are sick of what they stand for instead of trying to evolve. So we get stuck with a joke ont he Conk side and a puppet on the Donk side. The Donks should have realized 8 years ago that no one wanted Hillary when she couldn't beat Obama. This time they gave her zero competition and expected her to win easily. Instead Bernie, a major outsider, gave her a run for her money. It's shocking to see how they still don't realize that no one wants her. The claim people do based on the fact she won but thats because they gave no options and the lower voter turnout proves they were wrong in putting everything behind her in the first place. The Dems are so desperate to have Hillary fulfill her destiny they destroyed the party while doing it.

I disagree with this. Hillary will be lucky to get half of those who call themselves Progressives and probably one out of three of them will vote third party.

That is NOT a popular sentiment here.

But I think you're right. And Trump is beating her right now with independents and young voters. If only the Dems had found a candidate who does well with those groups.

[Ivytalk]

I disagree with this. Hillary will be lucky to get half of those who call themselves Progressives and probably one out of three of them will vote third party.

That is NOT a popular sentiment here.

But I think you're right. And Trump is beating her right now with independents and young voters. If only the Dems had found a candidate who does well with those groups.

If only!

Then you could abandon your ballyhooed Gary Johnson vote and retreat to your Donk comfort zone.

[kalm]

That is NOT a popular sentiment here.

But I think you're right. And Trump is beating her right now with independents and young voters. If only the Dems had found a candidate who does well with those groups.

If only!

Then you could abandon your ballyhooed Gary Johnson vote and retreat to your Donk comfort zone.

You'd really to think that wouldn't ya? But no. I would have still voted GJ. The Dems lost my vote years ago.

[houndawg]

If only!

Then you could abandon your ballyhooed Gary Johnson vote and retreat to your Donk comfort zone.

You'd really to think that wouldn't ya? But no. I would have still voted GJ. The Dems lost my vote years ago.

Time will show that in the long term this election has hurt the Ds much more than the Rs.

[AshevilleApp]

My fear with this shitty election is that the next one will be even shittier.

If Hillary wins, which I assume she will at this point, the liberals will think they have won but the long term damage to the party isn't worth her winning. For starters, the Alt-Right will really lose their **** to sit through another four years of liberal policy. But more importantly, I don't think she will win reelection and the Conks will put out someone far more awful than Trump. It'll be a Boobs like worm that actually knows how to pass really really shitty policies. A Clinton win basically means that the Conks will rain down hellfire with their next victory.

The one positive I see to her winning is that the Congress will very quickly approve Obamas nomination for the Supreme Court. I am happy to a more moderate guy in there that will actually understand policy, like Justice Kennedy, and not vote down party lines. Because any replacement that Hillary or Trump get a say in will be a very shitty Justice that will swing policy in favor of a party and not the Constitution.

If Trump wins I fail to see any positives. He has a very short temper and no idea what he is doing. The guys he has around him are shady as hell. The guy with Russian connections, the creepy ex-FoxNews head, guys with ties to white power groups, etc. But the biggest problem is the far left will really push back. Look at the riots around his rallies. We will be around for some really shitty protests and possibly worse for four years. He seems to have no idea how to talk allies.

In the end we all lose no matter who wins. These are easily the most divisive candidates yet. We can't get members of Congress to work together and it will become much much worse under both of these leaders.

I have enjoyed watching the establishments fail but it's sad it failed to the point where both parties refuse to see that we are sick of what they stand for instead of trying to evolve. So we get stuck with a joke ont he Conk side and a puppet on the Donk side. The Donks should have realized 8 years ago that no one wanted Hillary when she couldn't beat Obama. This time they gave her zero competition and expected her to win easily. Instead Bernie, a major outsider, gave her a run for her money. It's shocking to see how they still don't realize that no one wants her. The claim people do based on the fact she won but thats because they gave no options and the lower voter turnout proves they were wrong in putting everything behind her in the first place. The Dems are so desperate to have Hillary fulfill her destiny they destroyed the party while doing it.

A Trump win could be the best thing for the Democratic party long term. That would galvanize the party base for the mid-terms like nothing else could.

[JohnStOnge]

It's like the Politifact thing. Right now it's Trump with 71% of Statements being "Mostly False," "False" or "Pants on Fire" vs. Clinton with 28% in those categories. But the response of Trumpists is to go into denial by attacking Politifact.

Care to weight the lies? It's a bunch of Trumps 1's and 2's compared to Clinton's 9's and 10's. Who is the biggest liar then? It's like comparing a running back that gets 75 yards on 30 carries with one that gets 215 yards on 15 carries. Who had the better game?

Clinton has had bigger things that we know about to potentially lie about. Trump has shown himself to be one who will like quickly and frequently whenever he thinks he needs to. Do you really doubt that he would hesitate to lie if something happens when he's actually in a position of responsibility and he thinks it would be to his advantage to do so? And some of his lies are pretty significant. Like he sells himself based on his judgment then says and/or implies that positions he's taken in the past at given times show the he has good judgment. But he lies about the positions he's taken. Like saying he strongly opposed the Iraqi invasion when he's on audio saying "I guess so but I wish we would've done it right the first time" when asked before the invasion if he supported it. Or implying that HE would not facilitated deposing Gaddafi when he's on video saying we should use or own military directly to do so. Or acting like he wouldn't have drawn down in Iraq like we have when he's on video saying we should declare victory and leave.

I also think he's lying about why he's no releasing his tax returns. If you believe his son it's not because he's under audit. And, really, I think we've all known all along that he's not refusing to provide his tax returns because of an audit. Some might say that's important in that it says something about him.

But, really, it goes back to the first thing. Trump is in office and screws up. He's not going to tell the truth about it. And I think you know that. Lying to him is like breathing to most of us. It's part of his standard operating procedure.

[kalm]

Care to weight the lies? It's a bunch of Trumps 1's and 2's compared to Clinton's 9's and 10's. Who is the biggest liar then? It's like comparing a running back that gets 75 yards on 30 carries with one that gets 215 yards on 15 carries. Who had the better game?

Clinton has had bigger things that we know about to potentially lie about. Trump has shown himself to be one who will like quickly and frequently whenever he thinks he needs to. Do you really doubt that he would hesitate to lie if something happens when he's actually in a position of responsibility and he thinks it would be to his advantage to do so? And some of his lies are pretty significant. Like he sells himself based on his judgment then says and/or implies that positions he's taken in the past at given times show the he has good judgment. But he lies about the positions he's taken. Like saying he strongly opposed the Iraqi invasion when he's on audio saying "I guess so but I wish we would've done it right the first time" when asked before the invasion if he supported it. Or implying that HE would not facilitated deposing Gaddafi when he's on video saying we should use or own military directly to do so. Or acting like he wouldn't have drawn down in Iraq like we have when he's on video saying we should declare victory and leave.

I also think he's lying about why he's no releasing his tax returns. If you believe his son it's not because he's under audit. And, really, I think we've all known all along that he's not refusing to provide his tax returns because of an audit. Some might say that's important in that it says something about him.

But, really, it goes back to the first thing. Trump is in office and screws up. He's not going to tell the truth about it. And I think you know that. Lying to him is like breathing to most of us. It's part of his standard operating procedure.

Unlike all those other politicians who own their mistakes.



Sometimes your trolling gets real close to the edge...

[JohnStOnge]

[Trump is beating her right now with independents and young voters. .

He's not beating her among young voters. He's overwhelmingly opposed by young voters. The problem for Hillary is that her lead over Trump among young voters is dramatically reduced by the third and fourth party candidates being in the race. I've been seeing a lot on this but I'll just use the Quinnipiac poll released September 14 to illustrate.

See the poll details at https://www.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us ... 27xtpb.pdf .

First go to question 1 at the top of page 3. When they asked who people would vote for with only Clinton and Trump as alternatives Clinton beat Trump by 55 to 34% among those in the youngest age group (18 through 34).

Now go to question 4 on page 4. When they asked who people would vote for with Johnson and Stein added to the list of alternatives Clinton's lead over Trump in the youngest age group dropped to 31 to 26%. All the way from a 21 percentage point lead down to a 5 percentage point lead. And the reason is that when Johnson was included 29% of respondents in the 18 to 34 age group said they'd vote for him. Stein hurts some too by drawing 15%.

One can do some math to ballpark the net general election edge Clinton gets from the youngest group as being reduced from about 4 percentage points to about 1 percentage point by the presence of Johnson and Stein.

Hopefully those numbers will change some as the prospect of actually having a President Trump appears to become more likely. I am hoping at least some people indicating in recent polls that they would vote for Johnson or Stein did so thinking they could get away with that because Clinton's going to win anyway. 71% of 18 through 34 year old respondents in the linked poll, for example, indicated they thought Clinton would win the election (near top of page 10). So there had to be 18 through 34 year old respondents who answered the "who will you vote for" question while believing Clinton is going to win regardless.

[JohnStOnge]

Unlike all those other politicians who own their mistakes.



Sometimes your trolling gets real close to the edge...

I don't troll. If you are going to say you don't want to vote for Clinton because she lies and/or misleads you really ought to think some about the extent to which the alternative lies and/or misleads. And you ought to honestly ask yourself if he would be any less likely to lie and/or mislead in a given situation than she would be.

I think that if you're intellectually honest you are going to say he's at LEAST as likely to lie and/or mislead in a given situation as she would be.

And to me it's pretty clear that he's MORE likely to lie and/or mislead in a given situation than she is. To me if you're voting on the basis of which is more honest or which is less dishonest you should be voting for HIllary.

[CAA Flagship]

I think the legal age to vote needs to be raised.

[kalm]

Unlike all those other politicians who own their mistakes.



Sometimes your trolling gets real close to the edge...

I don't troll. If you are going to say you don't want to vote for Clinton because she lies and/or misleads you really ought to think some about the extent to which the alternative lies and/or misleads. And you ought to honestly ask yourself if he would be any less likely to lie and/or mislead in a given situation than she would be.

I think that if you're intellectually honest you are going to say he's at LEAST as likely to lie and/or mislead in a given situation as she would be.

And to me it's pretty clear that he's MORE likely to lie and/or mislead in a given situation than she is. To me if you're voting on the basis of which is more honest or which is less dishonest you should be voting for HIllary.

Understand that me calling you a troll is giving you the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, you have a George W. Bush level of IQ.

Also, lies on the campaign trail are different than lies while in office.