And the best part.... you had to PAY to watch this game on TV.
Can we finally put soccer to rest in this country?
Yeah, I was shocked to see that I could watch the Mexico/Panama game on one of the Spanish channels but couldn't see the USA game.
As for soccer in this country, the Men's team was never the draw - we're never going to win the World Cup in our lifetimes - it's watching the EPL that did and still does draw the audience.
89Hen wrote:There has been ZERO improvement in the MNT. That's all that matters. Your post sounds a lot like the posts we've heard over and over for the last 20 years. I will buy when I see the improvement on the field.
IOW, we will know if you are right in how many years?
I am just so sick of being right.
What were you right about, that there will be ebbs and flows in the success of the national team? That's like betting on the fact that water will be wet. Down time now, for sure, and you could very well see Klinsmann fired for the current state of things, but thanks to the ridiculousness of the Hexagonal, the US just has to finish 4th out of 6th to stay alive for a World Cup berth. Heck, Mexico got in the last World Cup and only won two of the 10 hexagonal matches.
Saw a good article the other day about Argentina being in the dumps as they now face a long way back to make it to the World Cup after a dismal start, and that's with Messi. Like I said, ebbs and flows.
GannonFan wrote:What were you right about, that there will be ebbs and flows in the success of the national team? That's like betting on the fact that water will be wet. Down time now, for sure, and you could very well see Klinsmann fired for the current state of things, but thanks to the ridiculousness of the Hexagonal, the US just has to finish 4th out of 6th to stay alive for a World Cup berth. Heck, Mexico got in the last World Cup and only won two of the 10 hexagonal matches.
Saw a good article the other day about Argentina being in the dumps as they now face a long way back to make it to the World Cup after a dismal start, and that's with Messi. Like I said, ebbs and flows.
That last two results are in my favor of my argument GF. You have your head in the sand regarding this. The USMNT has made absolutely ZERO progress in the last 30+ years. They stood on the precipice of actually being a top 10 program in the world and they are in full reverse.
tribe_pride wrote:Although next month, we will be right back around 19 (maybe slightly worse) after the Copa and Euro results are posted. That 19 also includes when we were extremely misranked at around 7 or 8 in the world at one point. FIFA rankings are not very good.
89 nailed it. It was obvious when the US couldn't even get into the Gold Cup final that this program was on the decline and should have brought in new leadership...now the US need a miracle just to get into the WC (likely via a 4th place finish to play Oceana in the knock out round like MX did last time) and it's clear that new leadership is needed to gear up for the following WC.
No WC qualification will be a major set back for soccer in this country.
BTW, if you want to talk about soccer in general and leave the USMNT out of the equation, just look at college rosters. A buddy of mine went to see a Blue Hen game and had to laugh at the roster... seven guys from Spain, three from France and a kid from Jersey was how he put it.
Now, maybe you see that as a positive for US soccer... that kids from around the world want to come play here. I don't see it that way. I see that we can't grow enough US kids to fill US college rosters to be competitive.
BTW2, heard that EPL viewership is down almost 20% this year. Now, that's not really surprising with NFL ratings also dropping, but they are in a different stratosphere and pretty much everyone agrees that over-saturation of NFL games (Thursday, London, Sunday night, Monday Night) is the culprit. Could it be the same for soccer? Between all the MLS and EPL games available, interest is just too diluted for a sport that never was big in the US to begin with.
GannonFan wrote:What were you right about, that there will be ebbs and flows in the success of the national team? That's like betting on the fact that water will be wet. Down time now, for sure, and you could very well see Klinsmann fired for the current state of things, but thanks to the ridiculousness of the Hexagonal, the US just has to finish 4th out of 6th to stay alive for a World Cup berth. Heck, Mexico got in the last World Cup and only won two of the 10 hexagonal matches.
Saw a good article the other day about Argentina being in the dumps as they now face a long way back to make it to the World Cup after a dismal start, and that's with Messi. Like I said, ebbs and flows.
That last two results are in my favor of my argument GF. You have your head in the sand regarding this. The USMNT has made absolutely ZERO progress in the last 30+ years. They stood on the precipice of actually being a top 10 program in the world and they are in full reverse.
30+ years? No progress? Come on, what does that take us back to, 1986? Back in 1986 we were in the midst of a 40 year drought of even qualifying for a World Cup. Since then, we haven't missed a World Cup since 1990 and we've gotten out of the group stage a number of times, even winning in the round of 16. That's not progress? The team we had that qualified for the 1990 World Cup was basically a bunch of college kids and players with zero international experience. Now we field teams with guys who play in the top flights of the EPL and Bundesliga and even have a kid (he's only 18) who's already considered one of the better players in the world in Pulisic. If that's zero progress in 30+ years then you're crazy. Now, if you want to say we've been at about the same level for the past decade, that I can get behind. 30+ years? You've got to be joking, we're eons better than 30+ years ago.
Last edited by GannonFan on Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SDHornet wrote:89 nailed it. It was obvious when the US couldn't even get into the Gold Cup final that this program was on the decline and should have brought in new leadership...now the US need a miracle just to get into the WC (likely via a 4th place finish to play Oceana in the knock out round like MX did last time) and it's clear that new leadership is needed to gear up for the following WC.
No WC qualification will be a major set back for soccer in this country.
They're two games into a 10 game hexagonal and they've already gotten the road game at Costa Rica out of the way and one of the Mexico games. You don't need a miracle to make the World Cup at this point. They look like crap right now but so did Mexico last time, and Mexico looked like crap all the way until they played the play in game. This year the play in game is against Asia. If we can't beat the UAE then yes, we suck. Plenty of time to turn this around, heck, we don't play again until March of 2017.
89Hen wrote:
That last two results are in my favor of my argument GF. You have your head in the sand regarding this. The USMNT has made absolutely ZERO progress in the last 30+ years. They stood on the precipice of actually being a top 10 program in the world and they are in full reverse.
30+ years? No progress? Come on, what does that take us back to, 1986? Back in 1986 we were in the midst of a 40 year drought of even qualifying for a World Cup. Since then, we haven't missed a World Cup since 1990 and we've gotten out of the group stage a number of times, even winning in the round of 16. That's not progress? The team we had that qualified for the 1990 World Cup was basically a bunch of college kids and players with zero international experience. Now we field teams with guys who play in the top flights of the EPL and Bundesliga and even have a kid (he's only 18) who's already considered one of the better players in the world in Pulisic. If that's zero progress in 30+ years then you're crazy. Now, if you want to say we've been at about the same level for the past decade, that I can get behind. 30+ years? You've got to be joking, we're eons better than 30+ years ago.
GannonFan wrote:
30+ years? No progress? Come on, what does that take us back to, 1986? Back in 1986 we were in the midst of a 40 year drought of even qualifying for a World Cup. Since then, we haven't missed a World Cup since 1990 and we've gotten out of the group stage a number of times, even winning in the round of 16. That's not progress? The team we had that qualified for the 1990 World Cup was basically a bunch of college kids and players with zero international experience. Now we field teams with guys who play in the top flights of the EPL and Bundesliga and even have a kid (he's only 18) who's already considered one of the better players in the world in Pulisic. If that's zero progress in 30+ years then you're crazy. Now, if you want to say we've been at about the same level for the past decade, that I can get behind. 30+ years? You've got to be joking, we're eons better than 30+ years ago.
I agree with VulcanFan on this one. It all depends on your perspective and how you want to interpret the information. You don't like soccer so you prefer to look at the glass as 1/2 empty and no progress is being made. I like soccer and think the glass is 1/2 full and think the sport is growing and getting better.
My kids play soccer now and 30+ years ago my BIL toured Europe with his club and played HS soccer with Brian McBride. The youth game has grown by leaps and bounds from back then and continues to improve. I know a lot of kids who play/played for the Chicago Fire youth teams and/or been in the Olympic Development Program. Those programs didn't exist 30+ years ago. Youth development in the US is much, much closer to European development levels than it was 30+ years ago. This isn't Blue Hen football we're talking about where the bottom has dropped out and there is no hope for the future. The depth and quality of young soccer talent is growing and the results are coming.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
MAQA - putting the Q into qrazy qanon qult qonspiracy theories since 2015.
And the best part.... you had to PAY to watch this game on TV.
Can we finally put soccer to rest in this country?
Yeah, I was shocked to see that I could watch the Mexico/Panama game on one of the Spanish channels but couldn't see the USA game.
As for soccer in this country, the Men's team was never the draw - we're never going to win the World Cup in our lifetimes - it's watching the EPL that did and still does draw the audience.
It was on here...
“We didn’t have a man or woman in the drone,” Trump explained to a confused America. “We had nobody in the drone. It would have made a big difference, let me tell you. It would have made a big, big difference.” Mexico will pay for the wall THE MOON IS PART OF MARS
89Hen wrote:There has been ZERO improvement in the MNT. That's all that matters. Your post sounds a lot like the posts we've heard over and over for the last 20 years. I will buy when I see the improvement on the field.
IOW, we will know if you are right in how many years?
I am just so sick of being right.
Hey, we'll gladly fly you off to Mars or some other place in the galaxy, if you're cool with it. Prolly not gonna foot the billion-dollar bill to come rescue you though
UNI88 wrote:I agree with VulcanFan on this one. It all depends on your perspective and how you want to interpret the information. You don't like soccer so you prefer to look at the glass as 1/2 empty and no progress is being made. I like soccer and think the glass is 1/2 full and think the sport is growing and getting better.
By don't like soccer, you mean I only watch every single USMNT game that's not on Pay Per View (still laughing about that one this week). I played growing up and coached 6 seasons of youth soccer. But there is a lot I hate about the game too and I do not watch MLS, EPL, etc... I'd rather watch paint dry. Still, I'd like nothing more than for the US to be great, but alas, they're not. US soccer is like the boy who cried wolf. You're a sucker if you keep buying in that they are on the verge of being something.
89Hen wrote:BTW, if you want to talk about soccer in general and leave the USMNT out of the equation, just look at college rosters. A buddy of mine went to see a Blue Hen game and had to laugh at the roster... seven guys from Spain, three from France and a kid from Jersey was how he put it.
Now, maybe you see that as a positive for US soccer... that kids from around the world want to come play here. I don't see it that way. I see that we can't grow enough US kids to fill US college rosters to be competitive.
BTW2, heard that EPL viewership is down almost 20% this year. Now, that's not really surprising with NFL ratings also dropping, but they are in a different stratosphere and pretty much everyone agrees that over-saturation of NFL games (Thursday, London, Sunday night, Monday Night) is the culprit. Could it be the same for soccer? Between all the MLS and EPL games available, interest is just too diluted for a sport that never was big in the US to begin with.
College rosters? No one who really moves on to the higher levels of soccer plays college. Like the other poster on here said, you're just now (last 2-5 years) starting to see MLS clubs form academies where they bring kids in even before they're 12 and they start playing for those academies. They play some with their home clubs to a point, and then they exclusively play for the academies. In some cases (and not that I'm for this but it does happens) these kids don't even play for their high school teams anymore. If you're looking at college, then you're just looking at a level of soccer that doesn't really impact international soccer at all. The best players are already playing professionally somewhere before they're 18.
GannonFan wrote:Like the other poster on here said, you're just now (last 2-5 years) starting to see MLS clubs form academies where they bring kids in even before they're 12 and they start playing for those academies. They play some with their home clubs to a point, and then they exclusively play for the academies. In some cases (and not that I'm for this but it does happens) these kids don't even play for their high school teams anymore.
So we should see results in the next how many years?
From 22 years ago...
This was the year for American Soccer. Many years of organizational efforts on the part of the USSF paid off with an enormously successful World Cup competition which brought unprecedented publicity for soccer to the United States fans and media. The US put on an impressive tournament that, even if it didn't win over all of the skeptics in the rest of the world, at least demonstrated that the US was no longer to be taken lightly. More importantly, it reinforced the statement made by the 1984 Olympic competition, that given a good reason, fans will come out en masse to support soccer in the States...
The growth of soccer on many fronts was simply enormous. Youth soccer had been booming since the early 1970's. Many people who were attracted to the game as youngsters in the days of Pele and the NASL were now adult enthusiasts who were bringing their own children into the fold. College soccer was seeing a similar growth. The overall talent level was much higher and broader. Americans were for the first time gaining spots en masse in European leagues. The National Team could actually compete!
GannonFan wrote:Like the other poster on here said, you're just now (last 2-5 years) starting to see MLS clubs form academies where they bring kids in even before they're 12 and they start playing for those academies. They play some with their home clubs to a point, and then they exclusively play for the academies. In some cases (and not that I'm for this but it does happens) these kids don't even play for their high school teams anymore.
So we should see results in the next how many years?
From 22 years ago...
This was the year for American Soccer. Many years of organizational efforts on the part of the USSF paid off with an enormously successful World Cup competition which brought unprecedented publicity for soccer to the United States fans and media. The US put on an impressive tournament that, even if it didn't win over all of the skeptics in the rest of the world, at least demonstrated that the US was no longer to be taken lightly. More importantly, it reinforced the statement made by the 1984 Olympic competition, that given a good reason, fans will come out en masse to support soccer in the States...
The growth of soccer on many fronts was simply enormous. Youth soccer had been booming since the early 1970's. Many people who were attracted to the game as youngsters in the days of Pele and the NASL were now adult enthusiasts who were bringing their own children into the fold. College soccer was seeing a similar growth. The overall talent level was much higher and broader. Americans were for the first time gaining spots en masse in European leagues. The National Team could actually compete!
We have seen the results - we are a consistent World Cup participant, we do well in the World Cup from time to time, and we're still moving forward in terms of progress (e.g. Pulisic, among others). You pointed to 30 years ago and said we haven't made any progress since then. If you think the 2016 version isn't better than the 1986 version, by heads and shoulders, then you need to study your own meme because there's more than just your head in the sand.
GannonFan wrote:We have seen the results - we are a consistent World Cup participant
Certainly a step up from the 40 year stretch of not making the World Cup, which was the era you were pointing to when you said we hadn't improved one bit in 30 years.
Certainly a step up from the 40 year stretch of not making the World Cup, which was the era you were pointing to when you said we hadn't improved one bit in 30 years.
For God's sake GF, you make me look a great compromiser. You're stuck on the 30 years... my math was off. Obviously if you look at this entire thread I'm really referring to 1994 time frame when all we heard was we have arrived. The future is bright. 22 freaking years later and we are no closer than we were. Ugh, this thread has run it's course. I said:
the HEIGHT of the US success was reaching the Quarters of the WC and the finals of the Confederations Cup and hasn't done jack shit since. Ups and downs are expected in just about everything, but I'd still like to see ANY kind of upward trend. That's simply not happening.
and the results this past week have supported that 100%.
GannonFan wrote:
Certainly a step up from the 40 year stretch of not making the World Cup, which was the era you were pointing to when you said we hadn't improved one bit in 30 years.
For God's sake GF, you make me look a great compromiser. You're stuck on the 30 years... my math was off. Obviously if you look at this entire thread I'm really referring to 1994 time frame when all we heard was we have arrived. The future is bright. 22 freaking years later and we are no closer than we were. Ugh, this thread has run it's course. I said:
the HEIGHT of the US success was reaching the Quarters of the WC and the finals of the Confederations Cup and hasn't done jack **** since. Ups and downs are expected in just about everything, but I'd still like to see ANY kind of upward trend. That's simply not happening.
and the results this past week have supported that 100%.
We're still better as a team than the one that played in 1994. Probably the only two guys who were better at what they did than who we have today were Wynalda and Sorber. You're seeing ups and downs now and I would certainly agree we are no better substantially now than we were in 2002, but that's just about a decade - where do you think we should be? Since 2002 we've gotten out of group play in 3 of 4 World Cups and even won a group for the first time ever in 2010. We are what we are - a top 25 nation when it comes to soccer, but not really ready to threaten top teams to be any better than that. Is that so terrible? It's still much better than what we were before this millennium, and we're only 16 years into this one. We're probably not going to win the World Cup anytime soon - does that mean we throw the towel in and focus on field hockey?
GannonFan wrote:
Certainly a step up from the 40 year stretch of not making the World Cup, which was the era you were pointing to when you said we hadn't improved one bit in 30 years.
For God's sake GF, you make me look a great compromiser. You're stuck on the 30 years... my math was off. Obviously if you look at this entire thread I'm really referring to 1994 time frame when all we heard was we have arrived. The future is bright. 22 freaking years later and we are no closer than we were. Ugh, this thread has run it's course.
Yup. USMNT has tread water with a few highs and lows but generally nothing exceptional across that time frame. CONCACAF is generally pretty weak especially when you start looking at the other countries and the lack of resources they have to put into soccer. US should be a shoe-in for every WC and the fact that this program gets rolled on the road in some of these places is laughable.
Based on the upward trajectory from 1994 to 2009... another quarterfinal, maybe even a semifinal, not losing to Jamaica in the Gold Cup, not losing 4-0 to Costa Rica.... This team is back to the ground floor.
Based on the upward trajectory from 1994 to 2009... another quarterfinal, maybe even a semifinal, not losing to Jamaica in the Gold Cup, not losing 4-0 to Costa Rica.... This team is back to the ground floor.
Be honest, you only decided to go on a tear right now because we are in the 89th page of this thread.
The depth and quality of young soccer talent is growing and the results are coming.
