Missoula First On the Nanny State List....

[AZGrizFan]

Again.....legislating common sense is like trying to legislate morality. Just don't work. And once you start down that slope, where does it end?

[bobbythekidd]

Again.....legislating common sense is like trying to legislate morality. Just don't work. And once you start down that slope, where does it end?

It doesn't end. That's been happening for over 200 years.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Not a slave to my phone and almost never talk on it while driving so this won't affect me at all. Thing about this is that it is government stepping in on individual freedoms from my perspective. I'm so fucking sick of the "public safety bullshit" and the need to take care of everybody and make sure it's a safe world for all of us. We just keep on crossing these lines with little thought to it. What a bunch of fucking pussies we've become. I don't like some dumb ass talking on the phone and holding up the process any more than the next guy but jeezus Christ people can we stop giving away every freedom without a fight?

BTW, when can we get that law in place so I don't have to listen to your stupid fucking ring tone that you think is so fucking cool? It is noise pollution and for the public safety and the peace of the community we need those gone immediately.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Again.....legislating common sense is like trying to legislate morality. Just don't work. And once you start down that slope, where does it end?

It doesn't end. That's been happening for over 200 years.

yes... the horrendous tyrrany of seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, and smoking bans it's almost like a totalitarian state or something...

[travelinman67]

Again.....legislating common sense is like trying to legislate morality. Just don't work. And once you start down that slope, where does it end?

Here's the result, AZ...

...when CA banned cell talking while driving, folks were weaving around the road with a cell phone glued to their ear...one afternoon, out by my old office, I was sitting at an intersection and counted the number of people talking on their cell as a percentage of all vehicles...and it was around 70%. Some were looking down, either reading or looking at something other than the road, and some of those were in the process of making turning movements while talking and looking down.

That's just idiocy.

Today...I still see people talking while HOLDING their cell phone (well down into single digit percentage), but most are using hands free devices and have their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road.

And while I haven't seen any post-ban studies yet, I believe the ban has improved traffic conditions as getting stuck behind some wandering, 10 mph slower than the flow of traffic BMW navigated by a material-man engrossed in a phone call with his girlfriend, or the crooked neck teen weaving in and out of lanes while yammering with her boyfriend about the meaning of "flow", has seemingly dissappeared from CA's roadways.

[bobbythekidd]

It doesn't end. That's been happening for over 200 years.

yes... the horrendous tyrrany of seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, and smoking bans it's almost like a totalitarian state or something...

I am against seatbelt laws, and helmet laws. It would help thin the herd.

I never cross a parking lot without a seatbelt on.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

It doesn't end. That's been happening for over 200 years.

yes... the horrendous tyrrany of seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, and smoking bans it's almost like a totalitarian state or something...

These are not choices that we need the government to make for us. These choices AND their respective consequences should be left up to individuals.

[travelinman67]

It doesn't end. That's been happening for over 200 years.

yes... the horrendous tyrrany of seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, and smoking bans it's almost like a totalitarian state or something...

Once again, the distinction eludes you.

Cell phone bans protect other motorists on the road.

The bans sought by Democrats attempt to protect us from "our self".

Seatbelt, Helmet and Smoking bans ARE indicae of a totalitarian (aka Waxman) state.

[dbackjon]

yes... the horrendous tyrrany of seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, and smoking bans it's almost like a totalitarian state or something...

Once again, the distinction eludes you.

Cell phone bans protect other motorists on the road.

The bans sought by Democrats attempt to protect us from "our self".

Seatbelt, Helmet and Smoking bans ARE indicae of a totalitarian (aka Waxman) state.

I would put Seatbelt and Helmet laws in a different category than Smoking laws, which are closer to cell phone laws.

Public smoking is hazardous to everyone around the smoker. Seatbelts/Helmets only affect those NOT wearing them.

[wideright82]

yes... the horrendous tyrrany of seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, and smoking bans it's almost like a totalitarian state or something...

Once again, the distinction eludes you.

Cell phone bans protect other motorists on the road.

The bans sought by Democrats attempt to protect us from "our self".

Seatbelt, Helmet and Smoking bans ARE indicae of a totalitarian (aka Waxman) state.

I don't disagree with holding the phone, it is much more difficult to drive adequately with one hand than two, and like drinking and driving introduces others safety. How talking on a head set or built in bluetooth is any different than talking to the people in the passenger seats, is beyond me.


Helmet and seatbelt laws are a farce. That is just a way to make some more cash when it all comes down to it. If you always where your seatbelt or helmet, then the law doesn't have any effect on you.

[bobbythekidd]

NM. I'll stop being an AZgrizfan

[Col Hogan]

yes... the horrendous tyrrany of seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, and smoking bans it's almost like a totalitarian state or something...

Once again, the distinction eludes you.

Cell phone bans protect other motorists on the road.

The bans sought by Democrats attempt to protect us from "our self".

Seatbelt, Helmet and Smoking bans ARE indicae of a totalitarian (aka Waxman) state.

Sorry, T-Man, but this Missoula law IS WRONG...it goes way too far...and you are wrong this time...

To ban cell phone usage without a hands-free devise is one thing...actually, the current laws on distracted driving should simply be modified to include cell phone usage...

But to ban even hands-free devises as this law does is just plain wrong...if we're going this far, ban all conversations in a car involving the driver...

Newer cars with hands-free devises using the Bluetooth in your phone are no more dangerous that having a conversation with your friend in the right-hand seat...

THE NANNY STATE GROWS ONE SMALL STEP AT A TIME!!!!!!

[wkuhillhound]

wkuhillhound's new rule: Americans are BIMBOS!

Americans ARE stupid and ignorant. They don't know any better so these types of laws are necessary for people to understand that we need to SLOW DOWN as a country. We need to take a look at ourselves and realize that WE are not perfect, WE are not always right about everything, and that WE are narcissistic, moody, and self-indulgent. Sometimes government and other entitites needs to protect us FROM us. Americans lack common sense and respect for others. WE also need to realize that WE can't have it all. Fairy tales are fairy tales for a reason. ITS FANTASY, GET IT DUH!

[wideright82]

wkuhillhound's new rule: Americans are BIMBOS!

Americans ARE stupid and ignorant. They don't know any better so these types of laws are necessary for people to understand that we need to SLOW DOWN as a country. We need to take a look at ourselves and realize that WE are not perfect, WE are not always right about everything, and that WE are narcissistic, moody, and self-indulgent. Sometimes government and other entitites needs to protect us FROM us. Americans lack common sense and respect for others. WE also need to realize that WE can't have it all. Fairy tales are fairy tales for a reason. ITS FANTASY, GET IT DUH!

No offense hiller, but thats utter bullshit. The human propensity to consume what it wants when it has it is not limited to Americans. It is a human characteristic, and we limit the expansion of productive ingenious people by creating laws to help the less capable get ahead. We are a parasite on this earth, and that becomes more and more apparent every decade. The over populations of humans is what is going to end this earth, not the individuals themselves. We consume everything we touch, then we limit its use as if the next substitute will not have the same fate. Why we are the only species that thinks we "deserve" to be on this earth is beyond me. Certain "nanny" laws are the reason we have no common sense, is the reason our job markets are over-saturated with under-qualified hacks, and is the reason we always have certain people bitching and moaning.

[wkuhillhound]

wkuhillhound's new rule: Americans are BIMBOS!

Americans ARE stupid and ignorant. They don't know any better so these types of laws are necessary for people to understand that we need to SLOW DOWN as a country. We need to take a look at ourselves and realize that WE are not perfect, WE are not always right about everything, and that WE are narcissistic, moody, and self-indulgent. Sometimes government and other entitites needs to protect us FROM us. Americans lack common sense and respect for others. WE also need to realize that WE can't have it all. Fairy tales are fairy tales for a reason. ITS FANTASY, GET IT DUH!

No offense hiller, but thats utter bullshit. The human propensity to consume what it wants when it has it is not limited to Americans. It is a human characteristic, and we limit the expansion of productive ingenious people by creating laws to help the less capable get ahead. We are a parasite on this earth, and that becomes more and more apparent every decade. The over populations of humans is what is going to end this earth, not the individuals themselves. We consume everything we touch, then we limit its use as if the next substitute will not have the same fate. Why we are the only species that thinks we "deserve" to be on this earth is beyond me. Certain "nanny" laws are the reason we have no common sense, is the reason our job markets are over-saturated with under-qualified hacks, and is the reason we always have certain people bitching and moaning.

Are we saying the same thing here? That's what I'm getting from your counterpoint. It seems to me that the less capable are not getting ahead. Where the unemployment rate is closing in on 10%, it seems like to me that the herd is starting to get thinned out. I realize that a large percentage of that is due to layoffs, but less qualified business people are starting to whither away. I totally agree with you about overpopulation. One of the reasons why I'm for gay marriage. I am a perfect example of overconsumption and I'm doing something about that. Some people don't care to put on their seat belts to me I wouldn't be alive today w/o wearing my seat belt. From personal experience from an accident that I suffered in April 2008, the accident was NOT my fault by the way. I came away with minor injuries instead with the seat belt fastened. I don't need to be told to put on my seat belt but people prove their ignorance by saying that they are invincible and nothing will ever happen to me. If people experience things they will know NOT to do stupid things. I will respectfully disagree with of you on some of the points.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

People die from everything hillhound and if they die from something they do or a choice they make then that's up to them. Let's take the weight thing as an example, you are doing something about it because you choose to do it yourself for your own good. Do we need the people that know what's best for you to step in and force overweight people to change their habits? Are we really that big of a bunch of pussies that we need to be directed and penalized for making personal choices? Seems to me that letting some of these things be personal choices would actually help curb overpopulation.

[Grizalltheway]

Once again, the distinction eludes you.

Cell phone bans protect other motorists on the road.

The bans sought by Democrats attempt to protect us from "our self".

Seatbelt, Helmet and Smoking bans ARE indicae of a totalitarian (aka Waxman) state.

I would put Seatbelt and Helmet laws in a different category than Smoking laws, which are closer to cell phone laws.

Public smoking is hazardous to everyone around the smoker. Seatbelts/Helmets only affect those NOT wearing them.

Not true at all. If you're sitting in the back seat of a car and not wearing a seat belt, as soon a you get in a wreck you'll go flying forward and potentially fuck up somebody sitting in front, even if they're buckled up.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I would put Seatbelt and Helmet laws in a different category than Smoking laws, which are closer to cell phone laws.

Public smoking is hazardous to everyone around the smoker. Seatbelts/Helmets only affect those NOT wearing them.

Not true at all. If you're sitting in the back seat of a car and not wearing a seat belt, as soon a you get in a wreck you'll go flying forward and potentially fuck up somebody sitting in front, even if they're buckled up.

Never been in a car where the driver of the car did not dictate whether the passengers wore a seat belt or not. If the driver says put on the belt...on goes the belt. If not then the passenger can get out and wear his goddamn soles out.

Ever been in a car where someone throws a laptop in the back seat? We better get all unstrapped cargo in the cabin laws going next.

[wkuhillhound]

People die from everything hillhound and if they die from something they do or a choice they make then that's up to them. Let's take the weight thing as an example, you are doing something about it because you choose to do it yourself for your own good. Do we need the people that know what's best for you to step in and force overweight people to change their habits? Are we really that big of a bunch of pussies that we need to be directed and penalized for making personal choices? Seems to me that letting some of these things be personal choices would actually help curb overpopulation.

You make a great point. I can definitely see what you are saying.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

People die from everything hillhound and if they die from something they do or a choice they make then that's up to them. Let's take the weight thing as an example, you are doing something about it because you choose to do it yourself for your own good. Do we need the people that know what's best for you to step in and force overweight people to change their habits? Are we really that big of a bunch of pussies that we need to be directed and penalized for making personal choices? Seems to me that letting some of these things be personal choices would actually help curb overpopulation.

You make a great point. I can definitely see what you are saying.

Thanks Hill, just trying to put the other side out there. Glad to see you're a man not to stuck on just making his point and not listening to others. It's a good quality man.

[D1B]

Again.....legislating common sense is like trying to legislate morality. Just don't work. And once you start down that slope, where does it end?

Common sense is successfully legislated in countless ways, like stopping at red lights and speed limits around schools. This one also seems reasonable to me. I see countless kids on their phones while driving.

[AZGrizFan]

Again.....legislating common sense is like trying to legislate morality. Just don't work. And once you start down that slope, where does it end?

Common sense is successfully legislated in countless ways, like stopping at red lights and speed limits around schools. This one also seems reasonable to me. I see countless kids on their phones while driving.

Yeah. It's the kids. On my 26 mile drive to work each day, I see HUNDREDS of adults on their phones, NO kids. I drive a highway that handles 75,000 cars a day, with an average of 1-2 accidents a week. This is a damned EPIDEMIC!!!!!

And people run red lights, speed, drive without seatbelts or helmets, and drink and drive thousands of times a day in America. We've done a REAL good job at legislating morality, haven't we?

[Appaholic]

Not on board with you on this one, Mr. Potter.

I've seen the effect of OCD "phoning while driving"...and while it's amplified in congested urban/suburban areas, it still causes problems in rural areas also. Missoula is hardly "rural", and while Montanan's may be a tad more disciplined than the monkeys who fill California's roadways, it sends the message to citizens to pay attention to their driving when behind the wheel. Haven't studied the details, but allowing "hands free" seems an acceptable solution, just need to keep the driver's fingers off the keypad and keep both hands on the wheel.

What's humorous is the whiney response from Montanan's...as if you've lost your "wubby pacifier"...

I see. So you're only for "limited government" where it suits you.

Again, it's starting down a slippery slope of no phones, no food, no occupants, no talking, etc., etc., etc. Yeah, sounds crazy, don't it? So did banning cell phones 5 years ago.

What about those who are putting their makeup on driving down the road @ 65? What about those listening to music so loud they couldn't hear an emergency vehicle if it broadsided them? Or those who drive down the road reading the newspaper?

You can't "legislate" common sense. You've either GOT it, or you don't.

Slippery slope started when legislators decided that a more focused, intense and militant response to DWI was needed....sorry, common sense states that you don't drive inebriated, but .08 BAC isn't inebriated for all...but we allowed this militant, take-no-prisoners approach and it generated income...had to know this approach would be used for anything else deemed not worthy or a distraction....As TMan states, there were already laws on the books to deal with distracted driving, but no one enforrced...now some DA's get to make their bones on the backs of cell phone users likie they have from the guy who had a glass of wine and made the mistake of driving into a roadblock....D&D>setbelts>cellphones>??....enjoy you loss of freedoms under the guise of "safety".....

[griz37]

Well Missoula Mayor John Engen vetoed part of the bill. Now it is only illegal to text while driving or biking, talking on the phone remains legal.

[grizzaholic]

OH the lawsuits are going to be flying over this one. OH BOY!



Side note: Soon to be against the law; singing along with the radio, talking to others in the car, talking to one's self, pushing the button for cruise control, glancing down to see how fast one is going, taking one hand off the wheel to shift gears......the list is going to go on...FUCK THE CITY COUNCIL. They shouldn't be making asinine rules like this anyways. They are the most anti-everything anywhere in the world. China has a better code of conduct than these fucking queefs.