1) The voting record compared to Sanders from the 538 link is a compelling case...Baldy wrote:kalm wrote:
We've been through this before...just off the top of my head and I know there are more examples...
Neo-conservative on foreign policy...
Defender of Wall Street...
Against legalization of weed...
Believes Snowden is a traitor...
Security State...
Yeah...what a lib!
And yes...she's not the only one. Chuck Schumer is a Wall Street shill as well. The Democrats had to go after big money as the unions declined.
And yes...she pivoted to the left on free college education and paid lip service to a few other Bernie ideas but as we found out with Obama...most of the liberal campaign promises are "Hope" (in one hand).
Hillary Clinton Was Liberal. Hillary Clinton Is Liberal.Hillary Clinton and the 2016 Democrats: Mostly Liberal, TogetherA bunch of reporters have recently discovered a shocking truth: Hillary Clinton is liberal! (I heard a rumor that Columbo has been helping with the investigation.)
We’ve gotten this raft of “Clinton is liberal” exposés as Clinton has revved up her 2016 campaign, speaking out in support of gay marriage, a pathway to citizenship for immigrants in the U.S. illegally, and criminal justice reform. But what many of these articles miss is that Clinton has always been, by most measures, pretty far to the left. When she’s shifted positions, it has been in concert with the entire Democratic Party.
To see how these different issues fit together to form an overall political ideology, we usually use three metrics: one based on congressional voting record, one based on public statements and one based on fundraising.Hillary Clinton On The IssuesAmong seven potential Democratic presidential contenders, Hillary Clinton is the overwhelming favorite — and the third-most liberal candidate. How the other candidates are arrayed on an ideological spectrum could make her run for the White House easier than the last time out.
In some ways, the cast of candidates for 2016 resembles the group from the 2008 race, with a field of stalwartly liberal politicians. Mrs. Clinton was slightly more liberal in 2008 than now, according to Crowdpac, which scores politicians on a left-right scale of -10 to 10. (Crowdpac bases this mainly on campaign contributions, but also on votes and speeches.) Her problem was that Barack Obama, who was further to the left of her — at -7.8 to her -6.9 — also had the donors who were to the left of her. He ran a better campaign, particularly in Iowa, and benefited from a surge in money from small-dollar donors.
This time, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts (-8.2) and Bernie Sanders (-8.3), Vermont’s independent senator, are to her left. Ms. Warren has the higher fund-raising profile of the two, with a leadership PAC that raised more than $2 million during the 2014 election cycle. But she and Mrs. Clinton (and to a lesser extent Mr. Sanders) would be competing for a similar pool of donors. During her 2012 Senate race, Ms. Warren raised more than $3.4 million from individuals who also gave to Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaign, Federal Election Commission data shows.
HARD CORE LIBERAL
The Senate Votes That Divided Hillary Clinton and Bernie SandersHillary Clinton Is A Progressive Democrat, Despite What You May Have HeardHillary Rodham Clinton is a liberal Democrat on domestic matters, and Bernie Sanders is a socialist. They voted the same way 93 percent of the time in the two years they shared in the Senate.
In fact, from January 2007 to January 2009, Mrs. Clinton, representing New York, voted with Mr. Sanders about as often as she did with the like-minded Democrats Ron Wyden of Oregon and Barbara Mikulski of Maryland.kalm, Please.Stop.Bernie Sanders has said that Hillary Clinton is not a “true progressive” and many of his supporters seem to agree. It’s one reason that Sanders keeps performing well in primaries and caucuses, prolonging the campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination.
But whether that assessment of Clinton is accurate depends entirely on what it means to be a true progressive nowadays.
Does it mean voting like Sanders has, and embracing his agenda? Or does it simply mean consistently pushing for policies that would significantly advance progressive causes, like a fairer economy and a cleaner environment?
By the first definition, Clinton clearly doesn’t qualify as a progressive.
By the second, she clearly does.
But it doesn't jive with this from another one of your links...Hillary Rodham Clinton is a liberal Democrat on domestic matters, and Bernie Sanders is a socialist. They voted the same way 93 percent of the time in the two years they shared in the Senate.
Political scientists disagree? Whoda thunk!But whether that assessment of Clinton is accurate depends entirely on what it means to be a true progressive nowadays.
Does it mean voting like Sanders has, and embracing his agenda? Or does it simply mean consistently pushing for policies that would significantly advance progressive causes, like a fairer economy and a cleaner environment?
By the first definition, Clinton clearly doesn’t qualify as a progressive....
Statistics designed to measure ideological temperament, like the DW-NOMINATE scores by political scientists Keith Poole and Howard Rosenthal, suggest that Sanders has been among the most liberal members of the Senate. This includes the era when he and Clinton served in the Senate together. Their ratings aren’t particularly close.
2) The Huffpo peace was written in May at the heart of the primary. They, like the rest of the establishment media, were totally in the tank for Hillary and doing everything they could highlight her "progressive" chops against Bernie. And the heart of that peace is still based on what she was promising on the campaign trail.
3) According to the Crowdpac scores Clinton is slightly to the left of Al Gore, further to the left of Bill Clinton, Jim Webb, and Joe Biden, but still to the right of Obama and of course, Bernie. I only bring this up to suggest that we're dealing with a very soft science here. And before I get the "everyone's to the left of Bernie" rant, the soft science of public polling suggests a majority of Americans agree with Bernie on key issues like campaign finance reform, protecting entitlement programs, Wall Street regulation, the War on Drugs, and nation building. If you asked the public a question like "should we only bail out big banks and not home owners and college students?", I'd bet the numbers would be close. Also remember single payer healthcare was polling positive before Obamacare was rolled out.
4) The 538 article is not very persuasive...
I guess a majority of Americans are progressive on immigration too. How about the prison industrial complex?Immigration is a little trickier because so much depends on how a poll is worded, but most of the polls with neutrally worded questions seem to show support for Clinton’s position. A May 2015 CBS News survey shows 57 percent of Americans favor a pathway to citizenship
Yep!On criminal justice reform, which has drawn considerable national attention recently, Clinton called in late April for rolling back mandatory minimum sentencing laws, a position that has more support than it used to. A 2006 survey from Princeton Survey Research Associates International found that 54 percent of Americans and 55 percent of Democrats thought judges should have leeway in sentencing nonviolent offenders, instead of having to abide by the sentencing laws. In a November 2014 Public Religion Research Institute poll, 77 percent of Americans, including 83 percent of Democrats, wanted mandatory minimum sentences eliminated for nonviolent offenders.
To recap for those wanting to post another hole digging picture:
1) Hillary is center right...IMHO. Depending on their world view, some might think she's center left or even a flaming lib.
2) I wasn't trying to imply nor did I literally say Bill nominated moderate judges. My point is that because I think Hillary is center right, there's probably a decent chance that she would nominate moderates. I understand the confusion and will admit I could have worded it better.
3) In any event...I didn't see the downfall of the empire over who Hillary would have appointed.
Now...have at me, boys!
