Obama Pardons

[CID1990]

Let's be honest, the main reason for the commutation of the sentence was the gender switch and the military's refusal to house her in a prison according to her new gender.

As for the crime, hey, once you're in the military there's a chain of command to follow to expose what had to be exposed here. There were plenty of ways to bring to light the military's faults without going so far outside the command that going to WikiLeaks represented. And you're ignoring that with all that she stole and gave to WikiLeaks, only about 1% of it dealt with the military's misdeeds.

And she served enough time IMO.

Well hell let's just make espionage a misdemeanor then. Like pot, it's a victimless crime.

[Grizalltheway]

And she served enough time IMO.

Well hell let's just make espionage a misdemeanor then. Like pot, it's a victimless crime.

I'd be okay with at least giving people like Petraeus equally harsh sentences.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Well hell let's just make espionage a misdemeanor then. Like pot, it's a victimless crime.

I'd be okay with at least giving people like Petraeus equally harsh sentences.

Why do either of them deserve to serve any time? Its not like they had an illegal server that got hacked by Russia, North Korea and China?

[BDKJMU]

Why?

The military was being about the prosecution of the war and civilian death totals. She exposed that albeit while breaking the law, owned it, apologized and did 7 years including solitary.

He

[Ivytalk]

The military was being about the prosecution of the war and civilian death totals. She exposed that albeit while breaking the law, owned it, apologized and did 7 years including solitary.

He

[kalm]

The military was being about the prosecution of the war and civilian death totals. She exposed that albeit while breaking the law, owned it, apologized and did 7 years including solitary.

He

I try to live and let live. I'm not into imposing meaningless morals and defining others.

I'm not a conk and it's the right thing to do.

[BDKJMU]

You forgot Mumia.

That one might set off a real shitstorm, if it happens.

Isn't Mumia convicted on a state charge? So couldn't Obama not pardon him even if he wanted to?

[BDKJMU]

He

I try to live and let live. I'm not into imposing meaningless morals and defining others.

I'm not a conk and it's the right thing to do.

Has nothing to do with morals, but facts. When he committed espionage he wasn't a she yet.

[kalm]

I try to live and let live. I'm not into imposing meaningless morals and defining others.

I'm not a conk and it's the right thing to do.

Has nothing to do with morals, but facts. When he committed espionage he wasn't a she yet.

Fact: Not a he now. Fact: You don't get to determine how a person views or portrays their own gender identity. I'm sure you want to, but you don't get to.

In other news, nice to see Reason agreeing with kalm...

5 Obama Administration Accomplishments Libertarians Might Appreciate

With four days left in office, President Obama announced that he was commuting the sentence of Private Chelsea Manning, to end in May of this year instead of 2045. Manning was convicted on charges related to her disclosures of government documents including video of U.S. airstrikes on civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, documents related to the war in Iraq, and nearly a quarter million diplomatic cables from the Department of State. The disclosures revealed a lot about how U.S. foreign policy was conducted, in contrast to how it was presented to Americans and the rest of the world. At the time of Manning's exposure as the source of the leaks, Obama said it was clear the private "broke the law."

Edward Snowden, the former NSA contractor whose disclosures to Glenn Greenwald blew the whistle on the U.S. government's massive surveillance efforts at home and abroad, urged President Obama to grant Manning clemency, and Julian Assange, the founder of Wikileaks, offered to surrender himself to U.S. authorities (provided his rights are guaranteed) if Obama granted Manning clemency. The president said Assange's comments played no role in his decision.

The commutation does, however, complicate the Democratic narrative about Wikileaks (which also helped Snowden find sanctuary in Russia) as a Russian patsy for releasing emails from the Democratic National Committee and the account of Hillary Clinton campaign chair John Podesta, which, like the Manning disclosures, offered Americans an inside look at how their leaders operate. For his part, Obama said the Manning commutation "made sense" to him. "Chelsea Manning has served a tough prison sentence," Obama said, at his last press conference as president. "It made sense to commute, and not pardon her sentence... I feel very comfortable that justice has been served, and a message has still been sent."

https://reason.com/blog/2017/01/19/5-ob ... ishments-l

[kalm]

And she served enough time IMO.

Well hell let's just make espionage a misdemeanor then. Like pot, it's a victimless crime.

You do 7 years including solitary for misdemeanors?

[Ivytalk]

Well hell let's just make espionage a misdemeanor then. Like pot, it's a victimless crime.

You do 7 years including solitary for misdemeanors?

Manning was a traitor who put lots of people in harm's way -- a documented killing spree by the Taliban followed his leaks -- and national interests were compromised. He deserved every year of his original sentence.

[GannonFan]

So someone help me out with the FALN guy who had his sentence commuted before Obama left office. Because of "Hamilton" I get a lot of Lin Manuel-Miranda's posts on my newsfeed and he, like many Puerto Ricans, were crazy thrilled to have this guy released after 35 years in jail. Apparently there will be parades and such. Even de Blasio in New York was thrilled. This guy was still in jail because he didn't promise to renounce terrorism like the other FALN prisoners that were released at the end of Clinton's term had done. Obama commutes the sentence now without anything from this guy to renounce anything. He was a bomb maker and planner and apparently had a hand in the Fraunces Tavern bombing, among other bombings, in NYC in the 70's that killed a bunch of people. His supporters claim he was a political prisoner - FALN was a Marxist group that wanted an independent, communist Puerto Rico and their bombings were against what they said where their US colonial masters, and that violence against such is always allowed.

Should this guy have gone freed? Should people be thrilled that he's free? What is the right amount of time in jail for being involved and helping in the killing of people as part of a political protest movement? Should we celebrate this guy now that he's out?

[YoUDeeMan]

He

I try to live and let live. I'm not into imposing meaningless morals and defining others.

I'm not a conk and it's the right thing to do.

Except when it comes to Pence and Jesus.

[kalm]

I try to live and let live. I'm not into imposing meaningless morals and defining others.

I'm not a conk and it's the right thing to do.

Except when it comes to Pence and Jesus.

[AZGrizFan]

Fact: Not a he now. Fact: You don't get to determine how a person views or portrays their own gender identity. I'm sure you want to, but you don't get to.

In other news, nice to see Reason agreeing with kalm...

We may not get to determine how a person views or portrays their own gender identity, but we damned sure get to determine how WE view their identity. He was, is and always will be a he.

[AZGrizFan]

Should this guy have gone freed? Should people be thrilled that he's free? What is the right amount of time in jail for being involved and helping in the killing of people as part of a political protest movement? Should we celebrate this guy now that he's out?

He should be in jail until they've figured out a way to bring his victims back to life.

[GannonFan]

Should this guy have gone freed? Should people be thrilled that he's free? What is the right amount of time in jail for being involved and helping in the killing of people as part of a political protest movement? Should we celebrate this guy now that he's out?

He should be in jail until they've figured out a way to bring his victims back to life.

That's the thing - I can't think of an example I know of where I would be happy for or supporting a guy who killed as a terrorist. I'm sure it's my white privilege and all, but the closest thing I can think of would be our own Revolution, but at least that was far more popularly supported and it was fairly well out in the open. Guerrilla bombings of random civilians, as FALN did, seems far more dastardly.