Obushmatrump

[kalm]

I don't think there's any argument against the fact that Trump stumbled when he issued this order - way too much uncertainty, way too much lack of understanding of what exactly was being ordered. Unfortunately, that's a hallmark of Trump - he says a lot, but somehow makes it confusing enough that people spend way too long figuring out what he meant. In addition, not including Saudi Arabia on this list is just inexcusable - given their history of extremist Wahhibism there shouldn't have been a reason why they weren't on the same 90 day pause list. And finally, at the point of signing this Executive Order, there shouldn't have been any uncertainty over how people with green cards would be handled, how dual citizens would be handled, and there shouldn't have been any concern over what happens to legal aliens in the US from these countries if they travelled overseas after this and tried to get back in. And add to that that people already in the air shouldn't have been turned around and flown back. Heck, it was only 100 some people, no reason to raise the specter of deportation when it was manageable to deal with 100 people.

With that said, the left continues to flounder in impotent rage and hyperbole that makes it hard to trust them as well. Enough with the tears coming from the Statue of Liberty - for at least the past century we've greatly restricted the flow of immigrants into this country, and we've been particular about which ones they come from (and indirectly which ones we don't want them to come from). They are more than 100 years late in protesting the loss of the motto that is ascribed to the Statue of Liberty so CNN's headline of "Trump...fundamentally changes American history" is just inflammatory journalism. Frankly, I knew nothing of Obama's order back in 2011 to pause immigration into the US from these countries, at least similar to what Trump is doing now, precisely because no one was protesting Obama when he did it and people like CNN were apparently asleep at the wheel and didn't see what was happening. Calling this thing a Muslim ban is partly irresponsible, just as is the idea that this thing is permanent. Probably 75% of the Muslims in the world aren't impacted by this decree, and the only thing that could read as really long term in this is the restriction on Syrian refugees, and that probably is the one area that we should be more careful about in terms of who to admit.

End of the day, Trump is still Trump, mostly a blowhard and mostly a buffoon, and he does need to be kept a watch on by GOP and Dems and independents alike. But at the same time, the left has almost exhausted themselves on protest and indignation and we're not even two weeks into this thing and this recent executive order is probably the most tangible thing he's done so far in this Presidency. The administration owes a lot more answers on this decree, and in 90 days they better have a real good story of what they are doing and what can start to be lifted, and if not why. One weekend of airport protests and award show call to arms is not really holding the admin to task. Let's start talking and getting answers.

Tough to argue with this.

[Skjellyfetti]

Frankly, I knew nothing of Obama's order back in 2011 to pause immigration into the US from these countries, at least similar to what Trump is doing now

The big difference it was one country (Iraq) based on actual intelligence of a plot. It also wasn't a blanket on everyone was Iraq, but focused on refugees. An Iraqi doctor who had been in the country for several years wouldn't be affected, for instance.

Trump's ban was more of a blanket. And, they're already backpedaling from the broad language in the original order which is a good thing.

[Ibanez]

I don't think there's any argument against the fact that Trump stumbled when he issued this order - way too much uncertainty, way too much lack of understanding of what exactly was being ordered. Unfortunately, that's a hallmark of Trump - he says a lot, but somehow makes it confusing enough that people spend way too long figuring out what he meant. In addition, not including Saudi Arabia on this list is just inexcusable - given their history of extremist Wahhibism there shouldn't have been a reason why they weren't on the same 90 day pause list. And finally, at the point of signing this Executive Order, there shouldn't have been any uncertainty over how people with green cards would be handled, how dual citizens would be handled, and there shouldn't have been any concern over what happens to legal aliens in the US from these countries if they travelled overseas after this and tried to get back in. And add to that that people already in the air shouldn't have been turned around and flown back. Heck, it was only 100 some people, no reason to raise the specter of deportation when it was manageable to deal with 100 people.

With that said, the left continues to flounder in impotent rage and hyperbole that makes it hard to trust them as well. Enough with the tears coming from the Statue of Liberty - for at least the past century we've greatly restricted the flow of immigrants into this country, and we've been particular about which ones they come from (and indirectly which ones we don't want them to come from). They are more than 100 years late in protesting the loss of the motto that is ascribed to the Statue of Liberty so CNN's headline of "Trump...fundamentally changes American history" is just inflammatory journalism. Frankly, I knew nothing of Obama's order back in 2011 to pause immigration into the US from these countries, at least similar to what Trump is doing now, precisely because no one was protesting Obama when he did it and people like CNN were apparently asleep at the wheel and didn't see what was happening. Calling this thing a Muslim ban is partly irresponsible, just as is the idea that this thing is permanent. Probably 75% of the Muslims in the world aren't impacted by this decree, and the only thing that could read as really long term in this is the restriction on Syrian refugees, and that probably is the one area that we should be more careful about in terms of who to admit.

End of the day, Trump is still Trump, mostly a blowhard and mostly a buffoon, and he does need to be kept a watch on by GOP and Dems and independents alike. But at the same time, the left has almost exhausted themselves on protest and indignation and we're not even two weeks into this thing and this recent executive order is probably the most tangible thing he's done so far in this Presidency. The administration owes a lot more answers on this decree, and in 90 days they better have a real good story of what they are doing and what can start to be lifted, and if not why. One weekend of airport protests and award show call to arms is not really holding the admin to task. Let's start talking and getting answers.

Well said. And let me reiterate the the checks and balances in our system are working as designed. The courts are already working on this. Powerful GOP Senators are standing up to Trump. Trump is facing an uphill battle.

[Ibanez]

Frankly, I knew nothing of Obama's order back in 2011 to pause immigration into the US from these countries, at least similar to what Trump is doing now

The big difference it was one country (Iraq) based on actual intelligence of a plot. It also wasn't a blanket on everyone was Iraq, but focused on refugees. An Iraqi doctor who had been in the country for several years wouldn't be affected, for instance.

Trump's ban was more of a blanket. And, they're already backpedaling from the broad language in the original order which is a good thing.

Of course, that's because Trump shoots, speaks then re-speaks with 'alternative facts' then moves onto the next debacle to divert you from the existing one.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Trump did the right thing issuing the order to vet more thoroughly.

Its why over half the country elected him.

[YoUDeeMan]

The big difference it was one country (Iraq) based on actual intelligence of a plot. It also wasn't a blanket on everyone was Iraq, but focused on refugees. An Iraqi doctor who had been in the country for several years wouldn't be affected, for instance.

Trump's ban was more of a blanket. And, they're already backpedaling from the broad language in the original order which is a good thing.

Of course, that's because Trump shoots, speaks then re-speaks with 'alternative facts' then moves onto the next debacle to divert you from the existing one.

Debacle?

JFC...you might as well be the main stream media with a line like that.

[YoUDeeMan]

I don't think there's any argument against the fact that Trump stumbled when he issued this order - way too much uncertainty, way too much lack of understanding of what exactly was being ordered. Unfortunately, that's a hallmark of Trump - he says a lot, but somehow makes it confusing enough that people spend way too long figuring out what he meant. In addition, not including Saudi Arabia on this list is just inexcusable - given their history of extremist Wahhibism there shouldn't have been a reason why they weren't on the same 90 day pause list. And finally, at the point of signing this Executive Order, there shouldn't have been any uncertainty over how people with green cards would be handled, how dual citizens would be handled, and there shouldn't have been any concern over what happens to legal aliens in the US from these countries if they travelled overseas after this and tried to get back in. And add to that that people already in the air shouldn't have been turned around and flown back. Heck, it was only 100 some people, no reason to raise the specter of deportation when it was manageable to deal with 100 people.

With that said, the left continues to flounder in impotent rage and hyperbole that makes it hard to trust them as well. Enough with the tears coming from the Statue of Liberty - for at least the past century we've greatly restricted the flow of immigrants into this country, and we've been particular about which ones they come from (and indirectly which ones we don't want them to come from). They are more than 100 years late in protesting the loss of the motto that is ascribed to the Statue of Liberty so CNN's headline of "Trump...fundamentally changes American history" is just inflammatory journalism. Frankly, I knew nothing of Obama's order back in 2011 to pause immigration into the US from these countries, at least similar to what Trump is doing now, precisely because no one was protesting Obama when he did it and people like CNN were apparently asleep at the wheel and didn't see what was happening. Calling this thing a Muslim ban is partly irresponsible, just as is the idea that this thing is permanent. Probably 75% of the Muslims in the world aren't impacted by this decree, and the only thing that could read as really long term in this is the restriction on Syrian refugees, and that probably is the one area that we should be more careful about in terms of who to admit.

End of the day, Trump is still Trump, mostly a blowhard and mostly a buffoon, and he does need to be kept a watch on by GOP and Dems and independents alike. But at the same time, the left has almost exhausted themselves on protest and indignation and we're not even two weeks into this thing and this recent executive order is probably the most tangible thing he's done so far in this Presidency. The administration owes a lot more answers on this decree, and in 90 days they better have a real good story of what they are doing and what can start to be lifted, and if not why. One weekend of airport protests and award show call to arms is not really holding the admin to task. Let's start talking and getting answers.

Tough to argue with this.

Give it a try...you seem to be swinging at anything these days.

[CID1990]

Frankly, I knew nothing of Obama's order back in 2011 to pause immigration into the US from these countries, at least similar to what Trump is doing now

The big difference it was one country (Iraq) based on actual intelligence of a plot. It also wasn't a blanket on everyone was Iraq, but focused on refugees. An Iraqi doctor who had been in the country for several years wouldn't be affected, for instance.

Trump's ban was more of a blanket. And, they're already backpedaling from the broad language in the original order which is a good thing.

Both were illegal under the same test.

This is how we get here:

Excusing the weakening of the rule of law in increments over the last 50 years. Excusing end runs on the system of checks and balances.

We went from needing a declaration of war by Congress to go shoot people.

Then we decided if an international body wanted us to go shoot people, we could do so without a declaration

Then we decided that we could circumvent Congress' war making power with the War Powers Act withoutnbithering with the international organization

Then just a couple years ago, we decided that decapitating countries by dropping bombs all over them wasn't really "war" at all and didn't even need justification under the WPA

There's a parallel to all of this just about everywhere you look now- from immigration to regulations on people's daily lives by executive fiat, eminent domain (Trump loves that one.... I can't wait)... you name it. Now everybody wants to cry foul about what Trump is doing without considering that his enablers are named Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama, and most importantly, Americans in general who could care less about what the Founders intended when they want their short term political wins

I heard a piece somewhere last week, maybe read it somewhere- where the author was hoping that one day the grave of President Coolidge would be revered in the way Lincoln's is. I couldn't agree more.

All the tinfoil hat Libertarians are starting to look a little less crazy these days.

[Ibanez]

Of course, that's because Trump shoots, speaks then re-speaks with 'alternative facts' then moves onto the next debacle to divert you from the existing one.

Debacle?

JFC...you might as well be the main stream media with a line like that.

Debacle, fiasco, disaster, failure, mess, wreck, etc.... Choose a less scary word. It is what it is...a mess.

[kalm]

The big difference it was one country (Iraq) based on actual intelligence of a plot. It also wasn't a blanket on everyone was Iraq, but focused on refugees. An Iraqi doctor who had been in the country for several years wouldn't be affected, for instance.

Trump's ban was more of a blanket. And, they're already backpedaling from the broad language in the original order which is a good thing.

Both were illegal under the same test.

This is how we get here:

Excusing the weakening of the rule of law in increments over the last 50 years. Excusing end runs on the system of checks and balances.

We went from needing a declaration of war by Congress to go shoot people.

Then we decided if an international body wanted us to go shoot people, we could do so without a declaration

Then we decided that we could circumvent Congress' war making power with the War Powers Act withoutnbithering with the international organization

Then just a couple years ago, we decided that decapitating countries by dropping bombs all over them wasn't really "war" at all and didn't even need justification under the WPA

There's a parallel to all of this just about everywhere you look now- from immigration to regulations on people's daily lives by executive fiat, eminent domain (Trump loves that one.... I can't wait)... you name it. Now everybody wants to cry foul about what Trump is doing without considering that his enablers are named Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama, and most importantly, Americans in general who could care less about what the Founders intended when they want their short term political wins

I heard a piece somewhere last week, maybe read it somewhere- where the author was hoping that one day the grave of President Coolidge would be revered in the way Lincoln's is. I couldn't agree more.

All the tinfoil hat Libertarians are starting to look a little less crazy these days.

That's about as good a case for conservatism as you'll find anywhere.

Very well said.

[YoUDeeMan]

Debacle?

JFC...you might as well be the main stream media with a line like that.

Debacle, fiasco, disaster, failure, mess, wreck, etc.... Choose a less scary word. It is what it is...a mess.

Hmmm...about 100 or so people negatively impacted. Not exactly any one of those words.

How about, "an inconvenience to a limited number of people?"

How about...not a Muslin ban?

How about...every time a law is made or changed/executive order initiated/change happens, some people are ALWAYS impacted. And, of course, the media plays it up for suckers like you to blow it out of proportion.

Yeah, you chose debacle...and then select from failure (wut?), fiasco, disaster...etc.

[kalm]

Debacle, fiasco, disaster, failure, mess, wreck, etc.... Choose a less scary word. It is what it is...a mess.

Hmmm...about 100 or so people negatively impacted. Not exactly any one of those words.

How about, "an inconvenience to a limited number of people?"

How about...not a Muslin ban?

How about...every time a law is made or changed/executive order initiated/change happens, some people are ALWAYS impacted. And, of course, the media plays it up for suckers like you to blow it out of proportion.

Yeah, you chose debacle...and then select from failure (wut?), fiasco, disaster...etc.

More pussification in the war against islamic terorism...

[YoUDeeMan]

Hmmm...about 100 or so people negatively impacted. Not exactly any one of those words.

How about, "an inconvenience to a limited number of people?"

How about...not a Muslin ban?

How about...every time a law is made or changed/executive order initiated/change happens, some people are ALWAYS impacted. And, of course, the media plays it up for suckers like you to blow it out of proportion.

Yeah, you chose debacle...and then select from failure (wut?), fiasco, disaster...etc.

More pussification in the war against islamic terorism...

Keep thinking you're making sense.

[kalm]

More pussification in the war against islamic terorism...

Keep thinking you're making sense.

But, but, Obama was afraid to use the term Islamic terrorism. Now, the current ban isn't against Muslims.

Long live Obusmatrump!!!

[Ibanez]

Debacle, fiasco, disaster, failure, mess, wreck, etc.... Choose a less scary word. It is what it is...a mess.

Hmmm...about 100 or so people negatively impacted. Not exactly any one of those words.

How about, "an inconvenience to a limited number of people?"

How about...not a Muslin ban?

How about...every time a law is made or changed/executive order initiated/change happens, some people are ALWAYS impacted. And, of course, the media plays it up for suckers like you to blow it out of proportion.

Yeah, you chose debacle...and then select from failure (wut?), fiasco, disaster...etc.

They are called synonyms. And, there isn't a need to get pissy. I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. But you go ahead, thinking you have all the answers. I never said it was a Muslim ban. So, let's not assume what I think.

I swear, someone has a difference of opinion than you and you act like the liberal snowflakes you like to dress down.

[YoUDeeMan]

Hmmm...about 100 or so people negatively impacted. Not exactly any one of those words.

How about, "an inconvenience to a limited number of people?"

How about...not a Muslin ban?

How about...every time a law is made or changed/executive order initiated/change happens, some people are ALWAYS impacted. And, of course, the media plays it up for suckers like you to blow it out of proportion.

Yeah, you chose debacle...and then select from failure (wut?), fiasco, disaster...etc.

They are called synonyms. And, there isn't a need to get pissy. I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. But you go ahead, thinking you have all the answers. I never said it was a Muslim ban. So, let's not assume what I think.

I swear, someone has a difference of opinion than you and you act like the liberal snowflakes you like to dress down.

Of COURSE they're called synonyms.

And you ARE blowing it out of proportion...which is why you selected those synonyms.

[YoUDeeMan]

Keep thinking you're making sense.

But, but, Obama was afraid to use the term Islamic terrorism. Now, the current ban isn't against Muslims.

Long live Obusmatrump!!!

You still aren't making much sense...but you sure are trying to bluster a lot about whatever you are trying to piece together.

[Ibanez]

They are called synonyms. And, there isn't a need to get pissy. I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. But you go ahead, thinking you have all the answers. I never said it was a Muslim ban. So, let's not assume what I think.

I swear, someone has a difference of opinion than you and you act like the liberal snowflakes you like to dress down.

Of COURSE they're called synonyms.

And you ARE blowing it out of proportion...which is why you selected those synonyms.

Nah, I just gave you options b/c the words apparently triggered you. You seem to be acting like a snowflake lately. Words are upsetting you. You shout down other peoples opinions. You're self-righteous and uppity. It's ok, retreat to your safe space (I assume it's a sail club) and surround yourself with like-minded people that don't challenge you.

[Gil Dobie]

Keep thinking you're making sense.

But, but, Obama was afraid to use the term Islamic terrorism. Now, the current ban isn't against Muslims.

Long live Obusmatrump!!!

Obama made the list and put restrictions on the list of countries that included "the growing threat from foreign terrorist fighters.". Trump took his restriction list and upgraded it to a ban.

Obama for the assist.

[kalm]

But, but, Obama was afraid to use the term Islamic terrorism. Now, the current ban isn't against Muslims.

Long live Obusmatrump!!!

Obama made the list and put restrictions on the list of countries that included "the growing threat from foreign terrorist fighters.". Trump took his restriction list and upgraded it to a ban.

Obama for the assist.

Even if that's the case, it still helps my point. Or do think I'm here defending Obama?

Hey! The black guy did it first!



That's why we didn't include Saudi Arabia!

[YoUDeeMan]

Of COURSE they're called synonyms.

And you ARE blowing it out of proportion...which is why you selected those synonyms.

Nah, I just gave you options b/c the words apparently triggered you. You seem to be acting like a snowflake lately. Words are upsetting you. You shout down other peoples opinions. You're self-righteous and uppity. It's ok, retreat to your safe space (I assume it's a sail club) and surround yourself with like-minded people that don't challenge you.

Shout? Are your ears hurting? Strange computer you have.

Upset? I am laughing at your tenderness.

There is no snowflake in me regarding any of Trump's actions, or the actions of the collective Left. The man is using a strong pimp hand to slap some silly folks for their, "I want the government to force everyone else to take care of the people I say I care about" Leftist utopia thinking. Love it! And, the reaction from the Left is delicious.

That doesn't mean that we more conservative folks, as the humanitarian, caring people that we are, don't have an inner moral obligation to point out the obvious emotional drama problems that some folks are displaying. Think of it as a free teachable moment that points out when someone officially becomes part of the hysteria that overcomes the emotionally weak.

Remember in those old war movies, where the manly soldier saves the day, and the war, and the free world, by slapping the emotionally wrecked weakling (the one who usually used overly imaginative words such as, "debacle," "failure," and other such synonyms for disaster) across the face and telling him to get back to his post and fight for all that is good and great? That's what I am doing here...you can thank me later after you come to your senses.

Or, in your case, maybe this will provide some perspective.

phpBB [video]

And thanks for asking about the sail club. We are getting ready to start working on the boats next weekend. The effort that is needed to get ready for the season, versus the immediate gratification of dropping a boat into the water, can do a soul some good.

[GannonFan]

Obama made the list and put restrictions on the list of countries that included "the growing threat from foreign terrorist fighters.". Trump took his restriction list and upgraded it to a ban.

Obama for the assist.

Even if that's the case, it still helps my point. Or do think I'm here defending Obama?

Hey! The black guy did it first!



That's why we didn't include Saudi Arabia!

It would be interesting if he had included Saudi Arabia on the Executive Order and if that would've been legal. He had least had the backing of the Congressionally approved list of 7 countries that Obama signed into law to serve as a basis for his recent Executive Order. I'm not so sure that he can just say, sign a paper that people from France can't come into the US, and have that stand up in court. Staying with the list of 7 countries that the other branch of government approved is far more defensible legally speaking.

[Ibanez]

Nah, I just gave you options b/c the words apparently triggered you. You seem to be acting like a snowflake lately. Words are upsetting you. You shout down other peoples opinions. You're self-righteous and uppity. It's ok, retreat to your safe space (I assume it's a sail club) and surround yourself with like-minded people that don't challenge you.

Shout? Are your ears hurting? Strange computer you have.

Upset? I am laughing at your tenderness.

There is no snowflake in me regarding any of Trump's actions, or the actions of the collective Left. The man is using a strong pimp hand to slap some silly folks for their, "I want the government to force everyone else to take care of the people I say I care about" Leftist utopia thinking. Love it! And, the reaction from the Left is delicious.

That doesn't mean that we more conservative folks, as the humanitarian, caring people that we are, don't have an inner moral obligation to point out the obvious emotional drama problems that some folks are displaying. Think of it as a free teachable moment that points out when someone officially becomes part of the hysteria that overcomes the emotionally weak.

Remember in those old war movies, where the manly soldier saves the day, and the war, and the free world, by slapping the emotionally wrecked weakling (the one who usually used overly imaginative words such as, "debacle," "failure," and other such synonyms for disaster) across the face and telling him to get back to his post and fight for all that is good and great? That's what I am doing here...you can thank me later after you come to your senses.

Or, in your case, maybe this will provide some perspective.

phpBB [video]

And thanks for asking about the sail club. We are getting ready to start working on the boats next weekend. The effort that is needed to get ready for the season, versus the immediate gratification of dropping a boat into the water, can do a soul some good.

It's ok, snowflake. You keep on trucking with your obstinate self. I find the hysteria from the Left entertaining. It's all hypocrisy.


You're the manly soldier? That's pretty laughable.

[YoUDeeMan]

Shout? Are your ears hurting? Strange computer you have.

Upset? I am laughing at your tenderness.

There is no snowflake in me regarding any of Trump's actions, or the actions of the collective Left. The man is using a strong pimp hand to slap some silly folks for their, "I want the government to force everyone else to take care of the people I say I care about" Leftist utopia thinking. Love it! And, the reaction from the Left is delicious.

That doesn't mean that we more conservative folks, as the humanitarian, caring people that we are, don't have an inner moral obligation to point out the obvious emotional drama problems that some folks are displaying. Think of it as a free teachable moment that points out when someone officially becomes part of the hysteria that overcomes the emotionally weak.

Remember in those old war movies, where the manly soldier saves the day, and the war, and the free world, by slapping the emotionally wrecked weakling (the one who usually used overly imaginative words such as, "debacle," "failure," and other such synonyms for disaster) across the face and telling him to get back to his post and fight for all that is good and great? That's what I am doing here...you can thank me later after you come to your senses.

Or, in your case, maybe this will provide some perspective.

phpBB [video]

And thanks for asking about the sail club. We are getting ready to start working on the boats next weekend. The effort that is needed to get ready for the season, versus the immediate gratification of dropping a boat into the water, can do a soul some good.

It's ok, snowflake. You keep on trucking with your obstinate self. I find the hysteria from the Left entertaining. It's all hypocrisy.


You're the manly soldier? That's pretty laughable.

Not all men are soldiers...and not all soldiers are men. And not all soldiers that were men are still men. And no two snowflakes are alike.

Don't ever forget that.

[Wedgebuster]

In two short weeks Trump has positioned himself as America's first King. Empowered by his cheerleader like electorate who did not care about his overseas interests, federal income tax returns, Orwellian like appointments to his cabinet, and barrage of executive orders.

Boba Vanga's vision of the last POTUS being the black 44th President looks to be accurate if not literal. Rabid nationalism propped up by Trump's knob worshipers who angrily shout down any objections to his behavior thus far has given him an appearance of someone with far greater powers than what is allowed under our Constitution, which arguably may be the next target of this autocracy in motion.