Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

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Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by travelinman67 »

Science trumps hysteria and intuition, again.

Think twice about 'green' transport, say scientists

Jun 7 07:45 PM US/Eastern

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1
...taking public transport may not be as green as you automatically think, says a new US study.

Its authors point out an array of factors that are often unknown to the public.

These are hidden or displaced emissions that ramp up the simple "tailpipe" tally, which is based on how much carbon is spewed out by the fossil fuels used to make a trip.

Environmental engineers Mikhail Chester and Arpad Horvath at the University of California at Davis say that when these costs are included, a more complex and challenging picture emerges.

In some circumstances, for instance, it could be more eco-friendly to drive into a city -- even in an SUV, the bete noire of green groups -- rather than take a suburban train. It depends on seat occupancy and the underlying carbon cost of the mode of transport...

..."Government policy has historically relied on energy and emission analysis of automobiles, buses, trains and aircraft at their tailpipe, ignoring vehicle production and maintenance, infrastructure provision and fuel production requirements to support these modes," they say.

So getting a complete view of the ultimate environmental cost of the type of transport, over its entire lifespan, should help decision-makers to make smarter investments.

For travelling distances up to, say, 1,000 kilometres (600 miles), "we can ask questions as to whether it's better to invest in a long-distance railway, improving the air corridor or boosting car occupancy," said Chester.

The paper appears in Environmental Research Letters, a publication of Britain's Institute of Physics.

The calculations are based on US technology and lifestyles.

"Must not listen to deniers!! Taking away Americans freedom of movement most necessary."
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by CID1990 »

The only truly green solutions are going to involve hydrogen fuels supported by nuclear power. Everything else is just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If your local area uses coal power and you take the electric train to work your carbon footprint is as big as the asshole driving the Hummer to work.
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by Appaholic »

CID1990 wrote:The only truly green solutions are going to involve hydrogen fuels supported by nuclear power. Everything else is just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If your local area uses coal power and you take the electric train to work your carbon footprint is as big as the ******* driving the Hummer to work.
Yep....another case of not seeing the forest for the trees....I realize we need to start moving towards alternatives, but doing something that is potentially just as or more harmful is not necessarily as good as doing nothing...but it makes white liberals feel better.... :ugeek:
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by AZGrizFan »

Appaholic wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The only truly green solutions are going to involve hydrogen fuels supported by nuclear power. Everything else is just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If your local area uses coal power and you take the electric train to work your carbon footprint is as big as the ******* driving the Hummer to work.
Yep....another case of not seeing the forest for the trees....I realize we need to start moving towards alternatives, but doing something that is potentially just as or more harmful is not necessarily as good as doing nothing...but it makes white liberals feel better.... :ugeek:
That's been the mantra for the global warming crowd for about 20 years, Appa.
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by Appaholic »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Appaholic wrote:
Yep....another case of not seeing the forest for the trees....I realize we need to start moving towards alternatives, but doing something that is potentially just as or more harmful is not necessarily as good as doing nothing...but it makes white liberals feel better.... :ugeek:
That's been the mantra for the global warming crowd for about 20 years, Appa.
I know....global warming crowd has no credibility as long as they continue e-mail or text their dissent against nuclear power.... :roll:
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by dbackjon »

Appaholic wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
That's been the mantra for the global warming crowd for about 20 years, Appa.
I know....global warming crowd has no credibility as long as they continue e-mail or text their dissent against nuclear power.... :roll:
Which is why I have so much credibility...
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by slycat »

Appaholic wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
That's been the mantra for the global warming crowd for about 20 years, Appa.
I know....global warming crowd has no credibility as long as they continue e-mail or text their dissent against nuclear power.... :roll:
I dunno. Ralph posted a graph about a million times a few years back and I think that it proved global warming.
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by AZGrizFan »

slycat wrote:
Appaholic wrote:
I know....global warming crowd has no credibility as long as they continue e-mail or text their dissent against nuclear power.... :roll:
I dunno. Ralph posted a graph about a million times a few years back and I think that it proved global warming.
Yep. Case closed. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

Just as long as you realize it's not a "political" discussion, and AlGore is NOT a politician. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by travelinman67 »

dbackjon wrote:
Appaholic wrote:
I know....global warming crowd has no credibility as long as they continue e-mail or text their dissent against nuclear power.... :roll:
Which is why I have so much credibility...despite my benefitting from the Palo Verde consortium's employee benefits agreement with my employer.
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by dbackjon »

travelinman67 wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Which is why I have so much credibility...despite my benefitting from the Palo Verde consortium's employee benefits agreement with my employer.
:coffee:

:?: :?:
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by AZGrizFan »

dbackjon wrote:
travelinman67 wrote:
:coffee:

:?: :?:
:shake: :rofl: :twocents:
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by travelinman67 »

Appaholic wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
That's been the mantra for the global warming crowd for about 20 years, Appa.
I know....global warming crowd has no credibility as long as they continue e-mail or text their dissent against nuclear power.... :roll:
J...one only need to go back and look at the origination of what has become the "modern" conservation movement, eugenicist Julian Huxley's U.N. sponsored International Technical Conference on the Protection of Nature in 1949. That conference drew the roadmap for the "overpopulation" zealots who crafted Malthusian environmental tales for the purpose of imposing eugenics motivated social reforms. Is it any surprise that Rachel Carson's principal target was DDT...a pesticide responsible for saving millions of lives each year? Hardly.

This subject has been researched intensively, yet the benefactors of eugenics, global "old-riche" who fight to maintain undemocratic political control (for the purpose of preserving their wealth and power), also control the media outlets (...conspicuously revealed during late 70's, early 80's investigations into Trilateralist activities...), hence, you'll never find Reuters, AP, Agency Press France, etc...publishing investigative reports on the promoters of "green" agendas: Social engineering leading to eugenic policies. Modern "tree huggers" have been unwittingly suckered into becoming agents for a cultural hysteria that has less to do with preservation of nature than conditioning societies into accepting restricted liberties and eventually, restricted reproductive rights (U.N. Population Fund, UN Food & Agriculture tying aid to birth control).



(enter dback with sarcasm, mockery and denial...)
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by dbackjon »

T-man you ignorant slut

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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by AZGrizFan »

travelinman67 wrote:
Appaholic wrote:
I know....global warming crowd has no credibility as long as they continue e-mail or text their dissent against nuclear power.... :roll:
J...one only need to go back and look at the origination of what has become the "modern" conservation movement, eugenicist Julian Huxley's U.N. sponsored International Technical Conference on the Protection of Nature in 1949. That conference drew the roadmap for the "overpopulation" zealots who crafted Malthusian environmental tales for the purpose of imposing eugenics motivated social reforms. Is it any surprise that Rachel Carson's principal target was DDT...a pesticide responsible for saving millions of lives each year? Hardly.

This subject has been researched intensively, yet the benefactors of eugenics, global "old-riche" who fight to maintain undemocratic political control (for the purpose of preserving their wealth and power), also control the media outlets (...conspicuously revealed during late 70's, early 80's investigations into Trilateralist activities...), hence, you'll never find Reuters, AP, Agency Press France, etc...publishing investigative reports on the promoters of "green" agendas: Social engineering leading to eugenic policies. Modern "tree huggers" have been unwittingly suckered into becoming agents for a cultural hysteria that has less to do with preservation of nature than conditioning societies into accepting restricted liberties and eventually, restricted reproductive rights (U.N. Population Fund, UN Food & Agriculture tying aid to birth control).
D1B must have attended that conference. 8-) 8-) 8-)
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by Cleets Part 2 »

CID1990 wrote:The only truly green solutions are going to involve hydrogen fuels supported by nuclear power. Everything else is just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If your local area uses coal power and you take the electric train to work your carbon footprint is as big as the ******* driving the Hummer to work.

Wow...!!!
Spot on CID

Although I believe public transportation is fine - I have no issue there - it is clearly not the solution regarding energy efficiency and emissions control that one might be led to believe

:coffee:
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by D1B »

Cleets Part 2 wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The only truly green solutions are going to involve hydrogen fuels supported by nuclear power. Everything else is just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If your local area uses coal power and you take the electric train to work your carbon footprint is as big as the ******* driving the Hummer to work.

Wow...!!!
Spot on CID

Although I believe public transportation is fine - I have no issue there - it is clearly not the solution regarding energy efficiency and emissions control that one might be led to believe

:coffee:

Cleets, you're smarter than that, I think. Ultimately, the only solution must involve changing the way we live and being better stewards of the planet. This involves primarily dealing with massive consumption/consumerism/rise of a world-wide middle class and over population.

Nuclear is not a long term solution.
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by Cleets Part 2 »

D1B wrote:
Cleets Part 2 wrote:

Wow...!!!
Spot on CID

Although I believe public transportation is fine - I have no issue there - it is clearly not the solution regarding energy efficiency and emissions control that one might be led to believe

:coffee:

Cleets, you're smarter than that, I think. Ultimately, the only solution must involve changing the way we live and being better stewards of the planet. This involves primarily dealing with massive consumption/consumerism/rise of a world-wide middle class and over population.

Nuclear is not a long term solution.
I'm smarter than what..?
I just try to collect all the data and come to a reasonably informed non-emotional conclusions without political affiliation or association....

1) Yes we need to be "aware" of our energy consumption and reduce it where possible
2) Yes we are stewards of this planet - it is not here "for us" but more "with us"
3) I have no problem with Lovelock's GAIA theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

Beyond that - it's all yet to be resolved as far as I'm concerned...

And no I do not have a perpetual HARD-ON for Al Gore like T-man does... Gore is simply a money grubbing politician liar like every other politician (or lawyer) with little to no self respect or personal dignity and absolutely no shame...

:coffee:
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by Cap'n Cat »

LMAO @ T!!!!

Not nearly as important as the gut check done by Conk voters last fall to support Obama!!!


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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by D1B »

Cleets Part 2 wrote:
D1B wrote:

Cleets, you're smarter than that, I think. Ultimately, the only solution must involve changing the way we live and being better stewards of the planet. This involves primarily dealing with massive consumption/consumerism/rise of a world-wide middle class and over population.

Nuclear is not a long term solution.
I'm smarter than what..?
I just try to collect all the data and come to a reasonably informed non-emotional conclusions without political affiliation or association....

1) Yes we need to be "aware" of our energy consumption and reduce it where possible
2) Yes we are stewards of this planet - it is not here "for us" but more "with us"
3) I have no problem with Lovelock's GAIA theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

Beyond that - it's all yet to be resolved as far as I'm concerned...

And no I do not have a perpetual HARD-ON for Al Gore like T-man does... Gore is simply a money grubbing politician liar like every other politician (or lawyer) with little to no self respect or personal dignity and absolutely no shame...

:coffee:
Smarter than your glowing review of CID's post. Which is wrong.

Get off the fence, pussy. :coffee:
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by Cleets Part 2 »

D1B wrote:
Cleets Part 2 wrote:
I'm smarter than what..?
I just try to collect all the data and come to a reasonably informed non-emotional conclusions without political affiliation or association....

1) Yes we need to be "aware" of our energy consumption and reduce it where possible
2) Yes we are stewards of this planet - it is not here "for us" but more "with us"
3) I have no problem with Lovelock's GAIA theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

Beyond that - it's all yet to be resolved as far as I'm concerned...

And no I do not have a perpetual HARD-ON for Al Gore like T-man does... Gore is simply a money grubbing politician liar like every other politician (or lawyer) with little to no self respect or personal dignity and absolutely no shame...

:coffee:
Smarter than your glowing review of CID's post. Which is wrong.

Get off the fence, pussy. :coffee:
You're brainwashed... :nod:
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by D1B »

Cleets Part 2 wrote:
D1B wrote:
Smarter than your glowing review of CID's post. Which is wrong.

Get off the fence, pussy. :coffee:
You're brainwashed... :nod:
Brainwashed by what, Cleets?
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by Cleets Part 2 »

D1B wrote:
Cleets Part 2 wrote:
You're brainwashed... :nod:
Brainwashed by what, Cleets?
Are you familiar with T-man...
And how he comes across (85% of the time) as a complete nut-ball without so much as a passing notion of the levels of his own insanity..?

Well you two peas are in the same pod... He's just the conservative version - but you're both the same - you two deserve each other... Frick & frack

edit: add in
In no way does this mean that I don't like you and T-man - I find you both entertaining and engaging...

I'm a Liberal (obviously) but I don't buy everything I'm spoon fed from the party line...
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by native »

slycat wrote:
Appaholic wrote:
I know....global warming crowd has no credibility as long as they continue e-mail or text their dissent against nuclear power.... :roll:
I dunno. Ralph posted a graph about a million times a few years back and I think that it proved global warming.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The only thing Ralph proves is his own stupidity!

... which, I think, is your point?
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Re: Another Envirowhacko's Gut-Check Moment

Post by D1B »

Cleets Part 2 wrote:
D1B wrote:
Brainwashed by what, Cleets?
Are you familiar with T-man...
And how he comes across (85% of the time) as a complete nut-ball without so much as a passing notion of the levels of his own insanity..?

Well you two peas are in the same pod... He's just the conservative version - but you're both the same - you two deserve each other... Frick & frack

edit: add in
In no way does this mean that I don't like you and T-man - I find you both entertaining and engaging...

I'm a Liberal (obviously) but I don't buy everything I'm spoon fed from the party line...
Hey all I'm saying is nuclear, drilling for more oil, ethanol, the frantic search for new energies are all dealing with symptoms and not the disease, which is over consumption, primarily by industrialized nations.

You said "spot on" to CID myopic statement and I put my two cents in. It aint my fault a Missouri Valley degree is obviously better than an Ivy. :thumb:

Lumping me in with Tman? Pay attention to who truly believes the vitriol they espouse, come back to this thread and retract. :coffee:
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

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