Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Aho Old Guy »

BDKJMU wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:
In theory...

But, it's a lot different voting for a bill that you know will never be inacted because it would be vetoed... and, voting for a bill that you know is going to **** over a large % of your constituency.

Voting to repeal Obamacare 50 times when it has no chance of success is easy. Dealing with the consequences of actually governance is difficult.
Yeah but if they had voted for the repeal bill prior and had publicly called for repeal (ie most Republicans) they would have been somewhat boxed in in having to vote for it again. Because if they didn't they would have been asked
"You voted for this exact same repeal bill several times before. Why did you vote against it now?"
It would be political suicide to respond with, "I voted for it before because I knew Obama would veto it. But now that I knew it would actually pass I voted against it."
Ryan The Weasel is trying to use the 'budget reconciliation' process to kill "3" birds with one stone.

A 'Repeal of Obamacare' requires actual legislation which, of course, would be filibustered in the Senate. Health care as designed by Trump/Ryan (whatever we call it) requires 3 steps (or 'buckets' as Ted Crooze calls them).

T-Ryan-Care is the bucket that blows the money up -- that's pretty much it. The rest of the current bill just nibbles around the edges. Ryan is stoning the 'block grants' and Medicare surcharge, and lessening that horrible burden on the billionaires in America.

The budget reconciliation process requires CBO review with the 10-year projection. I believe this is one of the few semi-legitimate holdovers from the 1990 Budget Control Act (which established Pay-Go).

Expense increases/reductions must reconcile with revenue increases/reductions. Sounds good, but is now toothless -- old Pay-Go rules had automatic triggers for expense cuts and tax increases. They expired in 2002 or so, and were not renewed.
OL FU wrote:Who cares? Now move on to not reforming the tax code 8-)
Buh buh buh but ... whatever could the looters and special interests do?! Think of their jobs, man! How could they provide for their families? Who will pay for their Beluga caviar?

The Tax Break Data Base
Congress hated it so much, they eliminated its funding in 2013.
It was a publicly accessible data base with 5-year projections of 'Tax Expenditures' -broken-down by economic sector- prepared by the Treasury Department and the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT)

Total Tax Breaks By Fiscal Year
FY2014 . . . . . $1,210 billion
FY2015 . . . . . $1,320 billion
FY2016 . . . . . $1,430 billion
FY2017 . . . . . $1,530 billion

It's a crime, is what it is. And Congress is covering it up.
The typical 5-yr projections by both Treasury and JCT are historically 15-20% too low, too. You can compute 5-yr rolling averages with the data-sets since 2001 in excruciating detail. Uncle Sugar gives away as much in tax breaks each year as he collects in personal income tax. Oh, darn. The best gub'mint a lobbyist can buy.

AND mystically Congress 'Opaques The Tax Breaks' just in time for FY 2018 Tax Reform. Yippie!

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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Ibanez »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Go back to the exact same repeal bill that conks passed in 2015 which Obama vetoed last Jan. The conks who voted for it them (near unanimously) would have no excuse not to vote for it now...
In theory...

But, it's a lot different voting for a bill that you know will never be inacted because it would be vetoed... and, voting for a bill that you know is going to fuck over a large % of your constituency.

Voting to repeal Obamacare 50 times when it has no chance of success is easy. Dealing with the consequences of actually governance is difficult.
I believe I said that. It's easy to vote when you know it'll be defeated. It gives you the political cover to tell the voters that you voted to repeal the ACA. Now, when it's possible, they retreat like cowards.


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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Chizzang »

Even Republican strategists are taken aback at the bumbling taking place...

Steve Schmidt:
“No administration has ever been off to a worse 100-day start”

longtime Republican strategist who served as a counselor to Vice President Dick Cheney...
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by BDKJMU »

Aho Old Guy wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Yeah but if they had voted for the repeal bill prior and had publicly called for repeal (ie most Republicans) they would have been somewhat boxed in in having to vote for it again. Because if they didn't they would have been asked
"You voted for this exact same repeal bill several times before. Why did you vote against it now?"
It would be political suicide to respond with, "I voted for it before because I knew Obama would veto it. But now that I knew it would actually pass I voted against it."
Ryan The Weasel is trying to use the 'budget reconciliation' process to kill "3" birds with one stone.

A 'Repeal of Obamacare' requires actual legislation which, of course, would be filibustered in the Senate. Health care as designed by Trump/Ryan (whatever we call it) requires 3 steps (or 'buckets' as Ted Crooze calls them).

T-Ryan-Care is the bucket that blows the money up -- that's pretty much it. The rest of the current bill just nibbles around the edges. Ryan is stoning the 'block grants' and Medicare surcharge, and lessening that horrible burden on the billionaires in America.

The budget reconciliation process requires CBO review with the 10-year projection. I believe this is one of the few semi-legitimate holdovers from the 1990 Budget Control Act (which established Pay-Go).

Expense increases/reductions must reconcile with revenue increases/reductions. Sounds good, but is now toothless -- old Pay-Go rules had automatic triggers for expense cuts and tax increases. They expired in 2002 or so, and were not renewed.
Which could be broken by invoking the "nuclear option" only requiring 50 votes (VP makes 51)..
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Chizzang »

This made me giggle...

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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Donald Trump suffered a major legislative reversal on Friday as Republicans were forced to pull their repeal of the Affordable Care Act from the House floor.

After weeks of contentious negotiations over the American Health Care Act (AHCA), Republicans had to admit defeat as they could not gain sufficient support from their own side for the plan to overhaul US health insurance.

Speaking afterward in the Oval Office, Trump blamed Democrats for the failure of a bill to repeal the signature achievement of Barack Obama. “If [Democrats] got together with us, and got us a real healthcare bill, I’d be totally OK with that. The losers are Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, because they own Obamacare. They 100% own it,” he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... care-trump

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Post by Gil Dobie »

Due to recent events, the alternative ACA is now Obamacare.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by JohnStOnge »

http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/24/the-g ... -is-dead-b
The GOP’s Obamacare Repeal Bill Is Dead Because Trump Doesn’t Understand How Health Policy Works
In the end, though, the bill died. Trump couldn't close the deal. And one of the biggest reasons that Trump couldn't close the deal is that he didn't understand or care about the details.
Trump didn't care about the details. But health policy is all details. And it turns out it's hard to make a policy deal when you don't understand the policy.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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JohnStOnge wrote:http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/24/the-g ... -is-dead-b
The GOP’s Obamacare Repeal Bill Is Dead Because Trump Doesn’t Understand How Health Policy Works
In the end, though, the bill died. Trump couldn't close the deal. And one of the biggest reasons that Trump couldn't close the deal is that he didn't understand or care about the details.
Trump didn't care about the details. But health policy is all details. And it turns out it's hard to make a policy deal when you don't understand the policy.
Except the "repeal Obamacare" mantra wasn't started by Trump, it was part of the so-called conservative grassroots effort back in 2010. If anything this repeal failure shows the incompetence of your conk establishment ilk...they ran on a platform to whip up the mouthbreathers and had zero plan on how to actually accomplish their platform.

Conks. :lol:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by JohnStOnge »

SDHornet wrote:Except the "repeal Obamacare" mantra wasn't started by Trump,
Trump made repealing "Obamacare" a big part of his campaign.
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But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Chizzang »

JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Except the "repeal Obamacare" mantra wasn't started by Trump,
Trump made repealing "Obamacare" a big part of his campaign.
any loud talking con-man can bulldoze a barn...
It takes some actual skill to build one


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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

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JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Except the "repeal Obamacare" mantra wasn't started by Trump,
Trump made repealing "Obamacare" a big part of his campaign.
No...conks made repeal a part of the campaign, Trump just ran with it...like he would have ran with any popular stance that would have garnered support. Not surprised that you don't get this...I'm really not...
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Ibanez »

JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Except the "repeal Obamacare" mantra wasn't started by Trump,
Trump made repealing "Obamacare" a big part of his campaign.
So did most Republicans....and they've all "tried" to do it and have failed. Why? To show their base that they'll make good on promises. They fail,blame Democrats and the lemmings that follow the GOP will continue to vote for them. I blame low information/single issue voters and the RNC (not to mention the state committees.)


The Democrats are the same way. We have the government we deserve. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Ibanez »

Chizzang wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Trump made repealing "Obamacare" a big part of his campaign.
any loud talking con-man can bulldoze a barn...
It takes some actual skill to build one


:coffee:
One would say....
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by JohnStOnge »

SDHornet wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Trump made repealing "Obamacare" a big part of his campaign.
No...conks made repeal a part of the campaign, Trump just ran with it...like he would have ran with any popular stance that would have garnered support. Not surprised that you don't get this...I'm really not...
I do get it. It pretty much applies to anything Trump said. There is no "reality" at all to the guy. He just says what he thinks he needs to say at the time to get what he wants.

But he did identify "repeal Obamacare" as something he needed to say. And he said it a lot during his campaign.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by AZGrizFan »

JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Except the "repeal Obamacare" mantra wasn't started by Trump,
Trump made repealing "Obamacare" a big part of his campaign.
Obama made closing Gitmo a big part of his campaign. He made ending the war in Afghanistan a big part of his campaign. He made pulling troops out of Iraq a big part of his campaign. How we doin' on those fronts? :dunce:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by AZGrizFan »

JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote: No...conks made repeal a part of the campaign, Trump just ran with it...like he would have ran with any popular stance that would have garnered support. Not surprised that you don't get this...I'm really not...
I do get it. It pretty much applies to anything Trump said. There is no "reality" at all to the guy. He just says what he thinks he needs to say at the time to get what he wants.

But he did identify "repeal Obamacare" as something he needed to say. And he said it a lot during his campaign.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Yeah, Trump invented THAT. Jesus, John...the first rule of getting out of a hole is to put down the fucking shovel. :dunce:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by BDKJMU »

This was the better plan, simply take us back to 2009..
Congressman files one-sentence bill to repeal ObamaCare
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03 ... acare.html
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Skjellyfetti »

You still don't get it, BDK.

This is the same as voting to repeal Obamacare 50 times.... a cute stunt to play to the base. There's no intention of actually doing it.
The bill was not voted on and considered a symbolic jesture.
Shitty editing aside, that's the only sentence that matters.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by 89Hen »

SDHornet wrote:they ran on a platform to whip up the mouthbreathers

Conks. :lol:
Run with it you partisan piece of shit. People like you give liberals the bad name they deserve. :coffee:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Skjellyfetti »

SDHornet is a partisan liberal? :?

Seems like at least half of his posts are just a :nod: emoticon
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Grizalltheway »

89Hen wrote:
SDHornet wrote:they ran on a platform to whip up the mouthbreathers

Conks. :lol:
Run with it you partisan piece of shit. People like you give liberals the bad name they deserve. :coffee:
Does your insurance cover stick-from-ass removal? :roll:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by Ibanez »

89Hen wrote:
SDHornet wrote:they ran on a platform to whip up the mouthbreathers

Conks. :lol:
Run with it you partisan piece of shit. People like you give liberals the bad name they deserve. :coffee:
:lol: SD Hornet is partisan? Settle down, Grampa. :lol:
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by 89Hen »

Ibanez wrote:
89Hen wrote: Run with it you partisan piece of shit. People like you give liberals the bad name they deserve. :coffee:
:lol: SD Hornet is partisan? Settle down, Grampa. :lol:
Perhaps I have him mixed up with Aho(le) or somebody else, but that post was partisan. It's just divisive speech that sets everyone back.
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Re: Wheres the Republican alternative to ACA?

Post by 89Hen »

Grizalltheway wrote:
89Hen wrote: Run with it you partisan piece of shit. People like you give liberals the bad name they deserve. :coffee:
Does your insurance cover stick-from-ass removal? :roll:
Why, do you need a referral? :tothehand:
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