What do the "non-partisans" stand FOR?!??

[native]

The problem is that our society is breaking apart because of the rapidly diminishing shared American culture. Civil liberties depend not only on the law, but also on a civil society, which requires a common understanding of right and wrong. We are rejecting a past in a fit of petulance without truly understanding either the past or the way forward.

Libertarians may rightly criticize some Judeo-Christians for living an overly-examined life. Meanwhile, they plunge themselves and our nation into the abyss by rushing headlong into the unexamined life.

Hmmm...
Police and FBI report: Crime is down - across the board in all categories
American personal freedoms are essentially in tact
and all sorts of evidence that life in America is better than ever is popping up...

But the Christian control machine fears personal freedoms and fears personal choice and hates individual thought

The Christian notion of the examined life is beyond hysterical (please tell me your joking) when 0ver 85% have yet to read the very book they claim is divine - and the same exact percentage of crimes committed (pro capite) involves christians in North America as much as non...

your point is myopic and self indulgent (at best) and completely false and dangerous (at worst)

If you weren't so transparently emotional and immature, Cleets, you could put that genius IQ to better use.

[Cleets Part 2]

Hmmm...
Police and FBI report: Crime is down - across the board in all categories
American personal freedoms are essentially in tact
and all sorts of evidence that life in America is better than ever is popping up...

But the Christian control machine fears personal freedoms and fears personal choice and hates individual thought

The Christian notion of the examined life is beyond hysterical (please tell me your joking) when 0ver 85% have yet to read the very book they claim is divine - and the same exact percentage of crimes committed (pro capite) involves christians in North America as much as non...

your point is myopic and self indulgent (at best) and completely false and dangerous (at worst)

If you weren't so transparently emotional and immature, Cleets, you could put that genius IQ to better use.

Completely unemotional (actually) but I understand your confusion...
The idea that "America is flying apart" and somehow morally imploding is an emotional (as in completely detached from the facts) view used to control people and create fear...

who's emotional..? who's using emotions to forward an idea based in myth..? (please re-read your christian moral high road post again for clues)

[native]

...who's emotional..? who's using emotions....

You are.

[Gil Dobie]

One thing I notice about the Non-partisans on this messageboard, is that they are less likely to accept the divisive issues projected by the 2 major political parties. I would go as far to say they look for the common beliefs in fellow Americans.

I WISH!

The truth will set you free

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

One thing I notice about the Non-partisans on this messageboard, is that they are less likely to accept the divisive issues projected by the 2 major political parties. I would go as far to say they look for the common beliefs in fellow Americans.

That's a great point Gil and I agree with you. I have noticed that some of us that don't throw our weing behind one part or the other are able to look at things without our "homer" glasses on and see things without that prejudice. Just on this board you can take two posters that are diametrically opposite and watch them over time and see that they both do exactly the same things that they call out the other side for doing and that both sides can make a very compelling point about pretty much any subject. It makes it more interesting to me to not have chosen a side because I can take anything new learned and go forth while using information from either side.

[Cleets Part 2]

[quote="Cleets Part 2

...who's emotional..? who's using emotions....

You are.

Just the facts...
I have no issues with Christianity in the context of some 34,000 major religions on planet earth... it is one of many and serves and important role in many peoples lives...

However - when it's used as a political tool - I find that counter productive
and when it's positioned in an argument as morally above or somehow as "high ground" I can only laugh

America is not imploding morally - that is a myth - unfounded and completely fabricated

Just the facts please not some vague idea that The examined life is uniquely Christian when that is completely counter to the basic evidence we use to measure the individual moral compass (crime statistics)

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

[quote="Cleets Part 2

You are.

Just the facts...
I have no issues with Christianity in the context of some 34,000 major religions on planet earth... it is one of many and serves and important role in many peoples lives...

However - when it's used as a political tool - I find that counter productive
and when it's positioned in an argument as morally above or somehow as "high ground" I can only laugh

America is not imploding morally - that is a myth - unfounded and completely fabricated

Just the facts please not some vague idea that The examined life is uniquely Christian when that is completely counter to the basic evidence we use to measure the individual moral compass (crime statistics)

Native you're really pissing me off here. You are making me agree with Cleets on something and it is horrible to feel this way. I'm gonna try this out and see how bad it hurts...Good post Cleets.


Oh jeezus this is terrible, somebody kill me now.

[native]

Just the facts...
I have no issues with Christianity in the context of some 34,000 major religions on planet earth... it is one of many and serves and important role in many peoples lives...

However - when it's used as a political tool - I find that counter productive
and when it's positioned in an argument as morally above or somehow as "high ground" I can only laugh

America is not imploding morally - that is a myth - unfounded and completely fabricated

Just the facts please not some vague idea that The examined life is uniquely Christian when that is completely counter to the basic evidence we use to measure the individual moral compass (crime statistics)

Native you're really pissing me off here. You are making me agree with Cleets on something and it is horrible to feel this way. I'm gonna try this out and see how bad it hurts...Good post Cleets.

Oh jeezus this is terrible, somebody kill me now.

OK. I owe you a beer, Brother Bear.

[native]

You are.

Just the facts...
I have no issues with Christianity in the context of some 34,000 major religions on planet earth... it is one of many and serves and important role in many peoples lives...

However - when it's used as a political tool - I find that counter productive
and when it's positioned in an argument as morally above or somehow as "high ground" I can only laugh

America is not imploding morally - that is a myth - unfounded and completely fabricated

Just the facts please not some vague idea that The examined life is uniquely Christian when that is completely counter to the basic evidence we use to measure the individual moral compass (crime statistics)

The examined life starts with Socrates, not Christians, genius.

Emotional.

[native]

One thing I notice about the Non-partisans on this messageboard, is that they are less likely to accept the divisive issues projected by the 2 major political parties. I would go as far to say they look for the common beliefs in fellow Americans.

That's a great point Gil and I agree with you. I have noticed that some of us that don't throw our weing behind one part or the other are able to look at things without our "homer" glasses on and see things without that prejudice. Just on this board you can take two posters that are diametrically opposite and watch them over time and see that they both do exactly the same things that they call out the other side for doing and that both sides can make a very compelling point about pretty much any subject. It makes it more interesting to me to not have chosen a side because I can take anything new learned and go forth while using information from either side.

SOME of the non-partisans "look for the common beliefs in fellow Americans," without being "homers," not ALL.

Wedgie and others undermine the entire proposition.

[native]

...not some vague idea that The examined life is uniquely Christian ...

I already agreed with you and committed it to writing IN THIS THREAD before you even wrote your post, genius.

Emotional.

[Cleets Part 2]

Just the facts...
I have no issues with Christianity in the context of some 34,000 major religions on planet earth... it is one of many and serves and important role in many peoples lives...

However - when it's used as a political tool - I find that counter productive
and when it's positioned in an argument as morally above or somehow as "high ground" I can only laugh

America is not imploding morally - that is a myth - unfounded and completely fabricated

Just the facts please not some vague idea that The examined life is uniquely Christian when that is completely counter to the basic evidence we use to measure the individual moral compass (crime statistics)

The examined life starts with Socrates, not Christians, genius.

Emotional.

Right...
so why are you using it like you do..? with Christian overtones

[Cleets Part 2]

The examined life starts with Socrates, not Christians, genius.

Emotional.

Right...
so why are you using it like you do..? with Christian overtones

Oh and I appreciate you calling me Genius all the time (thank you)

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

That's a great point Gil and I agree with you. I have noticed that some of us that don't throw our weing behind one part or the other are able to look at things without our "homer" glasses on and see things without that prejudice. Just on this board you can take two posters that are diametrically opposite and watch them over time and see that they both do exactly the same things that they call out the other side for doing and that both sides can make a very compelling point about pretty much any subject. It makes it more interesting to me to not have chosen a side because I can take anything new learned and go forth while using information from either side.

SOME of the non-partisans "look for the common beliefs in fellow Americans," without being "homers," not ALL.

Wedgie and others undermine the entire proposition.

Well, not really. What you are seeing is a small sample that is in transition. Wedgie, and Appaholic are very similar mindsets to mine. The thing is they actively go out and look for the fuck ups of the governing body and bring them to others attention. I lay back and see what's going on and then try to formulate the opinion on it. Basically I'm a lazier version of those two but all three of us have a certain disdain for being told what to do or think by anybody. The problem with the view that you currently have on them is that they have been pointing out the mistakes of the Conservative party primarily because they had the leader in office for the last eight years. I would guarantee you that if you didn't already have an opinion formed on their perspective and came to this board 1 year from now that you would have a different opinion of what they stand for.

[native]

...Oh and I appreciate you calling me Genius all the time (thank you)

You're welcome, Cleets. Apparently you really are a genius from what Z tells me, so it's truthful to call you a genius.

Besides, calling you a genius, even in sarcasm, is a lot nicer than calling you an empty suit or stooping to the language of some of the useless, low life scum around here.

[native]

SOME of the non-partisans "look for the common beliefs in fellow Americans," without being "homers," not ALL.

Wedgie and others undermine the entire proposition.

Well, not really. What you are seeing is a small sample that is in transition. Wedgie, and Appaholic are very similar mindsets to mine. The thing is they actively go out and look for the **** ups of the governing body and bring them to others attention. I lay back and see what's going on and then try to formulate the opinion on it. Basically I'm a lazier version of those two but all three of us have a certain disdain for being told what to do or think by anybody. The problem with the view that you currently have on them is that they have been pointing out the mistakes of the Conservative party primarily because they had the leader in office for the last eight years. I would guarantee you that if you didn't already have an opinion formed on their perspective and came to this board 1 year from now that you would have a different opinion of what they stand for.

In the two months (GOD it sucks to be unemployed that long) that I have been posting regularly here, Appy and others, when pressed, have distinguished themselves with intelligence, wit, balance, fairness and thoughtful articulation.

Wedgie has not done so. Nor have a handful of other "non-partisans."

Besides, if GW-bashing is what all the "non-partisans" have in common, then I am a non-partisan!!!

GW grade card:
Supreme Court: A-
Taxes: B+
GWOT: B-
Corruption: C+
Intrusiveness of government: C
Illegal immigration: F
Size of government: F
Spending: F

[Gil Dobie]

Wedgie and others undermine the entire proposition.

I thought Wedgie was a Donk

Or mabye he's one of the Blue Dog Donks, TEETEE was talking about.

[BlueHen86]

Well, not really. What you are seeing is a small sample that is in transition. Wedgie, and Appaholic are very similar mindsets to mine. The thing is they actively go out and look for the **** ups of the governing body and bring them to others attention. I lay back and see what's going on and then try to formulate the opinion on it. Basically I'm a lazier version of those two but all three of us have a certain disdain for being told what to do or think by anybody. The problem with the view that you currently have on them is that they have been pointing out the mistakes of the Conservative party primarily because they had the leader in office for the last eight years. I would guarantee you that if you didn't already have an opinion formed on their perspective and came to this board 1 year from now that you would have a different opinion of what they stand for.

In the two months (GOD it sucks to be unemployed that long) that I have been posting regularly here, Appy and others, when pressed, have distinguished themselves with intelligence, wit, balance, fairness and thoughtful articulation.

Wedgie has not done so. Nor have a handful of other "non-partisans."

Besides, if GW-bashing is what all the "non-partisans" have in common, then I am a non-partisan!!!

GW grade card:
Supreme Court: A-
Taxes: B+
GWOT: B-
Corruption: C+
Intrusiveness of government: C
Illegal immigration: F
Size of government: F
Spending: F

I like the report card idea. I don't agree with the GWOT grade. I'm inclined to give him a D, but an incomplete may be more fair.

I'd give him a D because 9/11 happened on his watch and we haven't caught the people responsible. Also, Afghanistan is still unstable and the Taliban is still at large and threatening Pakistan.

You could argue that Clinton is to blame for 9/11 because he cut funding needed by the intel community. In that case, Bush has to get an incomplete, because if we are attacked in the next few months it must be W's fault. If we aren't attacked in the next few months then W's grade would be higher than a D.

[native]

Wedgie and others undermine the entire proposition.

I thought Wedgie was a Donk

Or mabye he's one of the Blue Dog Donks, TEETEE was talking about.

Blue dogs tend to be a little more honorable. At least they stand FOR something.

[native]

In the two months (GOD it sucks to be unemployed that long) that I have been posting regularly here, Appy and others, when pressed, have distinguished themselves with intelligence, wit, balance, fairness and thoughtful articulation.

Wedgie has not done so. Nor have a handful of other "non-partisans."

Besides, if GW-bashing is what all the "non-partisans" have in common, then I am a non-partisan!!!

GW grade card:
Supreme Court: A-
Taxes: B+
GWOT: B-
Corruption: C+
Intrusiveness of government: C
Illegal immigration: F
Size of government: F
Spending: F

I like the report card idea. I don't agree with the GWOT grade. I'm inclined to give him a D, but an incomplete may be more fair.

I'd give him a D because 9/11 happened on his watch and we haven't caught the people responsible. Also, Afghanistan is still unstable and the Taliban is still at large and threatening Pakistan.

You could argue that Clinton is to blame for 9/11 because he cut funding needed by the intel community. In that case, Bush has to get an incomplete, because if we are attacked in the next few months it must be W's fault. If we aren't attacked in the next few months then W's grade would be higher than a D.

Points well taken, BlueHen. I should have given my assumptions. My grades were given not against what I think would have been the perfect solution, but relative to what I believe was possible for GW on his watch.