What debate Joe? Tdick said I "celebrated infanticide". That's it. I showed him what HIS god did and wants him to believe. That's it. Your god was and is a serial, genocidal murderer -it's all in the bible.JoltinJoe wrote:Well, D, I know how this goes. D1B will claim that although Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists, they killed not because of their atheism, but because they were communists. And then he will claim that communists are more like religious people than atheists. Thus, the mass slaughter which these atheists committed had nothing to do with their atheism.SeattleGriz wrote:
I see how this works. God doesn't exist, because He was made up by man. Then try to lay blame on said man made God. So, logic dictates that Man is the one who is killing the innocent. Well, correct me if I am wrong, but haven't most of the killings lately been by Hitler, Mao and Stalin? None of those were made up by anyone.
The made up God has directed the killings of only thousands compared to the real men who have killed multiple millions. Let me recap. Some burlap wearing long hair with sandals says God told him to kill everyone and that cuts the mustard in regards to genocide thousands of years ago. I can see how that would compare to the three largest killing atheists of all time.
A dusty hippy on peyote vs Hitler, Mao and Stalin.
GOT IT! Thanks for clearing that one up!
Next.
In making this simple and flawed argument, D1B will never once consider or reference the writings of 19th century giants like Dostoyevsky, who accurately argued and predicted that the "idealistic" classless societies advocated by Marxist-influenced political philosophers of his day would inevitably adopt atheism as their official states, because of atheism's denial of objective truth.
Or even his beloved Nietzsche, who declared the end of faith-based objective truth, but himself recognized that his outlook was prone to abuse by political systems which would substitute some other "truth" for historical concepts of "objective truth," a concept which had been based on the "outdated" belief in God.
Or that Dostoyevsky chillingly warned in The Possessed that the denial of objective truth, and the adoption of atheism as official state positions, would cause the death of "one hundred million," in the name of "reason," in the coming century.
In other words, D1B will deny that rather obvious connection between commuism as a political system and atheism as its house position on faith -- because of the need of the political system to define itself as the source of moral authority and law-making, and atheism would allow the political system to do so.
He will call Hitler a "Christian" and a "Catholic," and in doing so, he will fail to consider the positions of numerous historians that Hitler's public expressions of religion were facades intended to curry favor with the Protestant majority in Germany. He will deny any source which quotes Hitler speaking to his intimates about exterminating the Christian faith. He will deny the existence of orders by the German Catholic bishops which resulted in the excommunication of all members of the Nazi party from the Catholic Church.
So there is no point to this debate, as I see it, because D1B is not familiar with Dostoyevksy or other 19th century writers who were critical about the predicted coming era of atheism as the moral position of the rationalist, and how and why that atheism would devolve into a tool used to slaughter tens of millions.
Because he has not read these writers, he cannot respond to them. And the under-read writers who flood the interent with their visions of life-affirming atheism similarly share the same blind spot, because they have not read these writers either. So the websites that D1B likes to rely upon are no help to him, because they don't understand or anticipate these arguments.
And until D1B explains why these 19th century writers were wrong - especially in that they have been proven right by the passage of time -- he will not convince anyone that Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot's atheism had nothing to do with the slaughter they authorized. Ultimately, D1B will say that I'm a brainwashed Catholic, unable to think for myself, and will say that I am blindly following something that was drilled into me in grammar school. He will call me a "liar" for saying that my current beliefs were formed later in life, in college, although I think it is pretty clear from what I say that my decisions to believe were informed, among other things, on the writings of Christian existentialists that I frequently cite. Honestly, I did not read Dostoyevsky in grammar school.
All this, however, will not prevent him from declaring victory in the debate.
I have said everything I have to say. The End.
Seattlegriz is an idiot. That's it. You are on tilt, again. That's it.
No debate here Joe. You cannot defend your faith using logic or reason. It's faith. The only thing you can do is apologize.
