Otto Warmbier - released from N Korea

[CID1990]

This is old news, but kudos to the WaPo for reporting how this went down:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/un ... cebf89f5e0

"Yun was instructed to prepare to travel to Pyongyang with the intention of bringing Warmbier back to the United States. A medical team and aircraft were organized, and North Korea was informed that a delegation would travel there.

“It wasn’t a situation where they asked,” one official said of the U.S. representatives. The North Koreans “were informed that the airplane would land, American and medical officials would get out.”"

Maybe the WaPo thinks this was a reckless way to do it... who knows-

But this was a ballsy piece of consular tradecraft


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[JohnStOnge]

I think the North Koreans let him out because they saw him as basically a vegetable anyway. That's very sad. But I think if he'd have been cogent he'd still be incarcerated over there and North Korea would basically have told us to go fuck ourselves if we tried to get pushy.

Otherwise, I really have to wonder about anybody who would go visit North Korea. I mean, how stupid do you have to be to do that?

Well, I guess Rodman can do it because he's famous and he serves their purposes.

But how stupid do you have to be to be just an ordinary Jill or Joe from the United States and go visit North Korea? I mean, spend your money to go to New Zealand or something.

[93henfan]

So you always seem to have some interesting insight, CID

What the fuck was the actual deal with this dude? I know Spandos is a wack-a-doodle and whatnot, but the way this guy was "acting" during his court appearances in DPRK was strange to say the least. Is the official line that he was coerced into acting like such a bitch? Something was definitely up there.

[SeattleGriz]

So you always seem to have some interesting insight, CID

What the fuck was the actual deal with this dude? I know Spandos is a wack-a-doodle and whatnot, but the way this guy was "acting" during his court appearances in DPRK was strange to say the least. Is the official line that he was coerced into acting like such a bitch? Something was definitely up there.

Dude did everything they told him to do and I can't blame the poor bastard. I'd be shitting as well.

Paid a heavy price for his fuck up.

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[SeattleGriz]

You even get the whole back story as to why he did it. Guy at a local church told him it would weaken a communist country by stealing the propaganda. Assuming the NoKo didn't change the story, but seemed like something a dude scared would say. He told the absolute truth.

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[JohnStOnge]

So you always seem to have some interesting insight, CID

What the **** was the actual deal with this dude? I know Spandos is a wack-a-doodle and whatnot, but the way this guy was "acting" during his court appearances in DPRK was strange to say the least. Is the official line that he was coerced into acting like such a bitch? Something was definitely up there.

Dude did everything they told him to do and I can't blame the poor bastard. I'd be shitting as well.

Paid a heavy price for his **** up.

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Paid a heavy price for flipping going to North Korea. Again: Why would any sane person DO that?

His family can bitch at various people for the current situation but in the final analysis their kid just did something really stupid.

[SeattleGriz]

Dude did everything they told him to do and I can't blame the poor bastard. I'd be shitting as well.

Paid a heavy price for his **** up.

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Paid a heavy price for flipping going to North Korea. Again: Why would any sane person DO that?

His family can bitch at various people for the current situation but in the final analysis their kid just did something really stupid.

I've been saying the same thing dude, but you have to admit losing your life over a banner isn't fair in the cosmic way of life.

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[93henfan]

So you always seem to have some interesting insight, CID

What the fuck was the actual deal with this dude? I know Spandos is a wack-a-doodle and whatnot, but the way this guy was "acting" during his court appearances in DPRK was strange to say the least. Is the official line that he was coerced into acting like such a bitch? Something was definitely up there.

Dude did everything they told him to do and I can't blame the poor bastard. I'd be shitting as well.

Paid a heavy price for his fuck up.

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Honestly, I'd take the worst fucking beating in the world before I'd act like a bitch on camera like that. People who break get used. Probably why he ended up in a coma.

Even ruthless bastards have respect for people who have respect for themselves. That is taught in SERE training.

[SeattleGriz]

Dude did everything they told him to do and I can't blame the poor bastard. I'd be shitting as well.

Paid a heavy price for his fuck up.

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Honestly, I'd take the worst fucking beating in the world before I'd act like a bitch on camera like that. People who break get used. Probably why he ended up in a coma.

Even ruthless bastards have respect for people who have respect for themselves. That is taught in SERE training.

Good to know if I ever get caught in NK! But I'm with Stonge, I ain't going.

[SeattleGriz]

But back to the main point of this thread. As douchy as it sounds, it's consular tradecraft as Cid said, that makes me glad to be American.

[CID1990]

So you always seem to have some interesting insight, CID

What the **** was the actual deal with this dude? I know Spandos is a wack-a-doodle and whatnot, but the way this guy was "acting" during his court appearances in DPRK was strange to say the least. Is the official line that he was coerced into acting like such a bitch? Something was definitely up there.

I don't know for sure. His confession in the show trial was scripted. Prior to the trial I'm sure he was undergoing some good ol Korean psychological harassment, and was likely being told he had better do his best kowtow at trial.

JSO is right though- these idiots go to NK without any idea of what they are getting into.

They don't play zero-outcome soccer there (or in much of the rest of the world, either)


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[Chizzang]

My view:
Which probably won't be very popular is - so what...
It's like playing roulette with a loaded revolver and now I'm supposed to feel bad for him..?

I don't
I feel bad for his family - they have suffered needlessly by his stupidity

[93henfan]

My view:
Which probably won't be very popular is - so what...
It's like playing roulette with a loaded revolver and now I'm supposed to feel bad for him..?

I don't
I feel bad for his family - they have suffered needlessly by his stupidity

No, I think most here agree with you. I do.

This is other stupid millennial trait. They don't understand that outside their bubble and the rotor wash from their helicopter parents, people actually get hurt and bad things happen in the real world.

[Jjoey52]

There are very few places in the world where a person should not even think about going, N Korea arguably tops the list. He was heading on a study abroad program, they have advisors with them. Who decided going there was a good idea? Stupid.


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[Pwns]

There are very few places in the world where a person should not even think about going, N Korea arguably tops the list. He was heading on a study abroad program, they have advisors with them. Who decided going there was a good idea? Stupid.


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I would sooner visit Mogadishu than North Korea.

[Pwns]

This is other stupid millennial trait. They don't understand that outside their bubble and the rotor wash from their helicopter parents, people actually get hurt and bad things happen in the real world.

Doesn't help that we had it beaten into our heads that we need to "broaden our horizons", not be so bigoted as to think certain other cultures aren't really any better than others, and other such garbage.

[HI54UNI]

My view:
Which probably won't be very popular is - so what...
It's like playing roulette with a loaded revolver and now I'm supposed to feel bad for him..?

I don't
I feel bad for his family - they have suffered needlessly by his stupidity

I agree with you although I'm not sure I bad I even feel for his family. Is it poor parenting if your child is dumb enough to go to North Korea?

[CID1990]

My view:
Which probably won't be very popular is - so what...
It's like playing roulette with a loaded revolver and now I'm supposed to feel bad for him..?

I don't
I feel bad for his family - they have suffered needlessly by his stupidity

I have the same personal view - and it comes from dealing with less sensational/serious versions of this same scenario over and over

But officially speaking...

This case was famous because it was North Korea - but this stuff happens all over the world, every week. Americans do very dumb things in other countries (not unique... so do the citizens of other developed countries)

I've rescued women who got themselves lured to Nigeria (and brought children with them) and then found themselves sequestered in some weirdo Nigerian charismatic shaman's closet, sick with malaria... and then find out this wasn't the first time this person needed a repatriation (yes.... if you are destitute overseas we will loan you money to get home) - you want to shake the sh1t out of some of these people

I've seen Americans do very dumb things in Vietnam and El Salvador too - and we help them out - in spite of the personal urge to tell them, " you're on your own, dumbass"

Some of the Americans I've visited in jail (we do that too) are in dire need of an ass kicking (which is especially tempting when they demand that you force the host government to let them out or otherwise concede to their demands because they are Americans)

But on the flip side- I've seen what happens to people from countries that truly don't give a sh1t what happens to their citizens overseas (except when it gives them an opportunity to get a little payback from us pesky Americans and our trusty Vienna Conventions that we like to whack them with)

Those people are pretty much screwed

I don't plan on needing special consular services when I'm overseas, but seeing the way people are treated by whimsical governments in about 60% of the world, it's comforting (and a little bit exceptional) to know that we do care, at least in an official sense.... or, it can also be seen as an example of us extending the bubble Americans live in beyond our borders.... there's no tough love when it comes to Uncle Sam

So I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for this guy either.... and his parents let him take this dumb trip in the first place.. but I'm stoked by what happened with our actions leading up to the release. It was pretty daring to put Yun on a plane, and say, "Go get him". And then, to call up the Norks and say, "We're coming. Here's the tail number. Have someone ready to meet us on the tarmac."

It was ballsy - and not our M.O. over the last several administrations. As someone in this business, I like the "better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" approach to citizens services

It reminded me of this

[Rob Iola]

Have thought about the Pyongyang marathon (complete with a crazy Olympic stadium-style finish), but for all the reasons listed (not to mention the 4 hour time limit) - pass...

[AZGrizFan]

Zero sympathy for Warmbier or his family.

1-2 well placed nukes would take care of the entire problem.

[houndawg]

My view:
Which probably won't be very popular is - so what...
It's like playing roulette with a loaded revolver and now I'm supposed to feel bad for him..?

I don't
I feel bad for his family - they have suffered needlessly by his stupidity

No, I think most here agree with you. I do.

This is other stupid millennial trait. They don't understand that outside their bubble and the rotor wash from their helicopter parents, people actually get hurt and bad things happen in the real world.

Hardly. Long before millennials people were trying to go to anywhere forbidden. Back when there were travellers everywhere it was Enver Hoxha's Albania that was the top prize for adrenaline junkies.

[SeattleGriz]

I can't help but think of the people that get out of their cars and want to have their picture taken with the wildlife when passing through Yellowstone as very similar to going to North Korea.

[93henfan]

No, I think most here agree with you. I do.

This is other stupid millennial trait. They don't understand that outside their bubble and the rotor wash from their helicopter parents, people actually get hurt and bad things happen in the real world.

Hardly. Long before millennials people were trying to go to anywhere forbidden. Back when there were travellers everywhere it was Enver Hoxha's Albania that was the top prize for adrenaline junkies.

[kalm]

I've narrowly escaped the clutches of North...Idaho severally times.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I love North Idaho