2017 NBA Draft

[Gil Dobie]

Timberwolves are in a shitstorm of rumors. Trades involving Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Rickey Rubio etc, teams include Dallas, Indiana, Boston and Chicago. My guess, the #7 pick gets traded.

[clenz]

And we get Butler while still keeping Rubio and Wiggins.

Give up Lavine (who tore his acl last year), Dunn and the 7th pick for Butler and the 16th.

Fucking raped em

[Gil Dobie]

And we get Butler while still keeping Rubio and Wiggins.

Give up Lavine (who tore his acl last year), Dunn and the 7th pick for Butler and the 16th.

**** raped em

Bulls fans are not very happy. Butler is just what the Wolves needed. Bonus is a 6'11" semi-project at #16.

[clenz]

Supposedly Rubio is still being shopped

I fee bad for him at this point and would like to see him traded. I think he'd be a perfect piece for this new roster, but I don't want to see him continually playing with the trade shit anymore.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

TrailBlazers are going to be a force after this draft. Zach Collins is going to take them places with the guard play they already have........................if he ends up there.

[GannonFan]

And we get Butler while still keeping Rubio and Wiggins.

Give up Lavine (who tore his acl last year), Dunn and the 7th pick for Butler and the 16th.

**** raped em

Fantastic trade for the TWolves - Butler is legit and gives them the scoring threat from the backcourt they really needed - he fits very well with the youthful talent they have. And on top of it, they give up very little. Lavine is a question mark coming back from the injury and I've been very vocal on these forums that Dunn is an absolute bust. The TWolves get exactly what they needed and gave up almost nothing for it.

[clenz]

And we get Butler while still keeping Rubio and Wiggins.

Give up Lavine (who tore his acl last year), Dunn and the 7th pick for Butler and the 16th.

**** raped em

Fantastic trade for the TWolves - Butler is legit and gives them the scoring threat from the backcourt they really needed - he fits very well with the youthful talent they have. And on top of it, they give up very little. Lavine is a question mark coming back from the injury and I've been very vocal on these forums that Dunn is an absolute bust. The TWolves get exactly what they needed and gave up almost nothing for it.

It's literally the exact trade that Thibs turned down last year on draft night, which should have really given the Bulls pause on the deal.

Last year it was that Thibs loves Dunns defense and would work with his shooting so he wouldn't trade him. Dunn truly was the hold up on it last year. LaVine wasn't someone they wanted to give up but would for Bulter.

Now, a year later Thibs has seen Dunn and is willing to let him go and LaVine is coming off of a torn ACL. I simply can't believe the deal was made the way it was. Then the guy the Bulls had drafted for them at 7 is...um...yeah.

LaVine has star potential. He has just been so raw. He was starting to figure the game out last year when his ACL happened. I know ACLs are "nothing" these days, but for a guy that relies so heavily on explosiveness I wonder what his recovery will end up being. If he gets back to healthy and is given a shot to be "the man" I think he can flourish.

The Wolves starting 5 right now is a top half in the west playoff field good.

Rubio (26 years old) - not much of a shooter, though that really came on late last year. However, he's so good on defense and one of the 3 best passers in the game (especially on the break). I've been vocal about giving him the chance to play without the "we are shopping him around" shit and he'll be really good. It's not a coincidence that once the deadline passed last year his stats went way up.

Butler (27 years old) - top 10-15 player in the league. All Star. Does everything. Loves Thibs. Wants to be there.

Wiggins (21 years old) - opinions are mixed but he's starting to get it. Needs to polish his game but he's pretty close to being a potential all star

KAT (20 years old) - One of the 2 or 3 best 4/5s in the league. He will be the best player in the league in a few years. Just phenomenal

Dieng - mostly unremarkable but solid at the 4/5.

Stat wise that is a starting 5 that looked like this last year

PG: 11.1 PPG 9.1 APG (4.5:1 A:TO), 4.2 RPG
SG: 23.9 PPG 5.5 APG 6.2 RPG 46% FG 37% 3PT 87% FT
SF: 23.6 PPG 4.0 RPG 2.3 APG 45% FG 36% 3PT 76% FT
PF: 25.1 PPG 12.3 RPG 2.7 APG 54.2% FG 36.7% 3PT 83.2% FT
C: 10.0 PPG 7.9 RPG 1.9 APG 50% FG 37.2 3PG 81.4 FT

The bench needs help though.

Post players are Cole Aldrich, Bjelica, Payne and Patton through the draft. Patton will spend more of the year at Iowa.

SF behind Wiggins is Shabazz
Behind Jimmy is Brandon Rush
Behind Ricky is Tyus Jones.

Serious work to be done yet to clean that bench up, but man that starting 5

[93henfan]

Did the Sixers have their first practice yet? How many of the top picks broke their legs or knees or feet? Trust the process still?

[clenz]

Did the Sixers have their first practice yet? How many of the top picks broke their legs or knees or feet? Trust the process still?

A certain Sixer fan on this site will take offense to that, but that's extremely accurate.

[GannonFan]

Did the Sixers have their first practice yet? How many of the top picks broke their legs or knees or feet? Trust the process still?

A certain Sixer fan on this site will take offense to that, but that's extremely accurate.

Nonsense, the process is flourishing. It's all coming together. I look forward to a TWolves/Sixers NBA Final in a few years. It'll be cute to bring up the posts of the doubters when that happens, as I'm sure they'll say they were always believers. Trust the Process.

[UNI88]

Butler (27 years old) - top 10-15 player in the league. All Star. Does everything. Loves Thibs. Wants to be there.

Didn't Butler toe the company like after the Bulls fired Thibs? He does do everything but he also has a little diva in him as well. Thibs won't put up with that though so he might keep it under control or it might simmer just beneath the surface.

Butler is a great all around player but the reality was that he had reached his ceiling with the Bulls and it wasn't good enough. With Butler they were looking at averaging a .500 record and an 8 seed with a 1st round loss every year. From a Bulls perspective he fits more as a Pippen than a Jordan. They might not have gotten what they wanted or what Butler was worth but they had to do something or they were looking at mediocrity.

[UNI88]

There's plenty of separation between Fultz and guys like Ball and Fox. Ball can't play defense, perhaps at all (one of the reasons why the Lakers traded DeAngelo Russell - he already can't play defense, so having a backcourt pairing of Russell and Ball would be disastrous) and there's legitimate worry that Ball can be an effective shooter in the NBA, especially creating his own shot. Fox is smaller that Fultz so there's a question how well he can guard the bigger players, and then there's the issue of whether Fox can shoot from outside the lane - 24% from 3pt range in college is not the same as the 41% that Fultz shot. If it's down to guards, Fultz is clearly a better prospect.

Opinions on that are pretty mixed. Yes there is a group of "experts" that think Fultz was the clear #1. There is also a group of "experts" that had them 1a, 1b & 1c at the PG position. They all have pro's & con's for their game. Fultz is a better prospect and his skill set fits the Sixers needs better than the other two but there is a very real possibility that 5 years down the line we could be talking about Ball or Fox (or Smith) being the best PG taken in this draft.

[GannonFan]

There's plenty of separation between Fultz and guys like Ball and Fox. Ball can't play defense, perhaps at all (one of the reasons why the Lakers traded DeAngelo Russell - he already can't play defense, so having a backcourt pairing of Russell and Ball would be disastrous) and there's legitimate worry that Ball can be an effective shooter in the NBA, especially creating his own shot. Fox is smaller that Fultz so there's a question how well he can guard the bigger players, and then there's the issue of whether Fox can shoot from outside the lane - 24% from 3pt range in college is not the same as the 41% that Fultz shot. If it's down to guards, Fultz is clearly a better prospect.

Opinions on that are pretty mixed. Yes there is a group of "experts" that think Fultz was the clear #1. There is also a group of "experts" that had them 1a, 1b & 1c at the PG position. They all have pro's & con's for their game. Fultz is a better prospect and his skill set fits the Sixers needs better than the other two but there is a very real possibility that 5 years down the line we could be talking about Ball or Fox (or Smith) being the best PG taken in this draft.

If Fultz has a ring or two by then I'd be fine with that!

[Gil Dobie]

Butler (27 years old) - top 10-15 player in the league. All Star. Does everything. Loves Thibs. Wants to be there.

Didn't Butler toe the company like after the Bulls fired Thibs? He does do everything but he also has a little diva in him as well. Thibs won't put up with that though so he might keep it under control or it might simmer just beneath the surface.

Butler is a great all around player but the reality was that he had reached his ceiling with the Bulls and it wasn't good enough. With Butler they were looking at averaging a .500 record and an 8 seed with a 1st round loss every year. From a Bulls perspective he fits more as a Pippen than a Jordan. They might not have gotten what they wanted or what Butler was worth but they had to do something or they were looking at mediocrity.

I wouldn't put Butler in the Pippen category. The young Wolves needed a veteran to help them finish games. I don't know how many games the Wolves were up by 15, and lost the 3rd quarter. Butler is a great finisher and plays defense. The knock on Lavine was his defense. Dunn needs playing time and the draft picks are pretty even at this point, looking at potential. Rubio still may be traded, as the Wolves have plenty of $$ for free agency. Rumors that Phil Jackson loves Rubio and with what's going on in NY, who knows what Phil will do. We can talk about this trade in 10 years and tell who got the best deal.

[AZGrizFan]

A certain Sixer fan on this site will take offense to that, but that's extremely accurate.

Nonsense, the process is flourishing. It's all coming together. I look forward to a TWolves/Sixers NBA Final in a few years.

[clenz]

Didn't Butler toe the company like after the Bulls fired Thibs? He does do everything but he also has a little diva in him as well. Thibs won't put up with that though so he might keep it under control or it might simmer just beneath the surface.

Butler is a great all around player but the reality was that he had reached his ceiling with the Bulls and it wasn't good enough. With Butler they were looking at averaging a .500 record and an 8 seed with a 1st round loss every year. From a Bulls perspective he fits more as a Pippen than a Jordan. They might not have gotten what they wanted or what Butler was worth but they had to do something or they were looking at mediocrity.

I wouldn't put Butler in the Pippen category. The young Wolves needed a veteran to help them finish games. I don't know how many games the Wolves were up by 15, and lost the 3rd quarter. Butler is a great finisher and plays defense. The knock on Lavine was his defense. Dunn needs playing time and the draft picks are pretty even at this point, looking at potential. Rubio still may be traded, as the Wolves have plenty of $$ for free agency. Rumors that Phil Jackson loves Rubio and with what's going on in NY, who knows what Phil will do. We can talk about this trade in 10 years and tell who got the best deal.

Minnesota blew 22 (as of most recent stat I can find on it...which was April 7) second half double digit leads. That is nearly as many as the rest of the league combined.

Minnesota was REALLY damn close to a playoff team last year - weren't mathematically eliminated until the final two weeks of the season - and had they held on to just half of those leads they were a playoff team and over .500. Take the rate at which an "average" NBA team loses double digit second half leads and Minnesota was the 6 seed - probably higher due to confidence boost, momentum, and all that shit. You want to know why/how those leads were blown? Lack of defense and lack of on court leadership to get the boat righted in time. Jimmy provides that. He also knows Thib's expectations.

Butler WANTED to get back to Thibs. Thibs wanted Butler back. They are very close. Butler did what he had to in Chicago to keep playing, keep trying to win games, and all that. That Chicago locker room, and entire organization, is a dumpster fire. There was massive dessention in the locker room last year between vets and younger guys. Want to know who you didn't hear causing problems? Jimmy. Jimmy tried to be the guy in the middle to get shit straight.


If Butler is Pippen, then so be it. Pip is one of the 50 greatest. KAT can be his Jordan. He is exactly what Minnesota needs. He's goin gto play 36-38 per night. He's made three straight all star teams, 3 straight NBA all defense teams, All NBA team, he finished 10th in +/- last year, and 5th in WAR last year. His advanced metrics are extremely good. Advanced metrics, when looking at first 5 years of a career, have him with a 89+% match with Russell Westbrook (91.3), Isiah Thomas (91.2), Jim Paxson (91.1), Allen Iverson (90.4) and Rajon Rondo (89.8). For career his similarity scores are Damien Lillard and Klay Thompsen. That's not bad company.


Over the weekend the AP writer for the Wolves said they are looking to go big game hunting in free agency. I don't know what that means, but I'd guess they are going to make a run at Chris Paul or Blake Griffin. Those can only happen if Rubio is traded. That means going after Paul or Kyle Lowery.

I like Rubio, given the volume shooters on this team right now a guy like Rubio is a perfect fit. Defense, fast break, passing, not looking to shoot, has shown growth in shooting that if he's left alone he'll hit it, etc...

He's also still young at like 27 years old. Paul is 32 and maybe starting to trend down (or will soon). He's also a volume shooter. I'm not sure where shots are going to come from with KAT, Wiggins, Butler and either Paul or Griffin on the team.

[clenz]

[UNI88]

I wouldn't put Butler in the Pippen category. The young Wolves needed a veteran to help them finish games. I don't know how many games the Wolves were up by 15, and lost the 3rd quarter. Butler is a great finisher and plays defense. The knock on Lavine was his defense. Dunn needs playing time and the draft picks are pretty even at this point, looking at potential. Rubio still may be traded, as the Wolves have plenty of $$ for free agency. Rumors that Phil Jackson loves Rubio and with what's going on in NY, who knows what Phil will do. We can talk about this trade in 10 years and tell who got the best deal.

Minnesota blew 22 (as of most recent stat I can find on it...which was April 7) second half double digit leads. That is nearly as many as the rest of the league combined.

Minnesota was REALLY damn close to a playoff team last year - weren't mathematically eliminated until the final two weeks of the season - and had they held on to just half of those leads they were a playoff team and over .500. Take the rate at which an "average" NBA team loses double digit second half leads and Minnesota was the 6 seed - probably higher due to confidence boost, momentum, and all that ****. You want to know why/how those leads were blown? Lack of defense and lack of on court leadership to get the boat righted in time. Jimmy provides that. He also knows Thib's expectations.

Butler WANTED to get back to Thibs. Thibs wanted Butler back. They are very close. Butler did what he had to in Chicago to keep playing, keep trying to win games, and all that. That Chicago locker room, and entire organization, is a dumpster fire. There was massive dessention in the locker room last year between vets and younger guys. Want to know who you didn't hear causing problems? Jimmy. Jimmy tried to be the guy in the middle to get **** straight.


If Butler is Pippen, then so be it. Pip is one of the 50 greatest. KAT can be his Jordan. He is exactly what Minnesota needs. He's goin gto play 36-38 per night. He's made three straight all star teams, 3 straight NBA all defense teams, All NBA team, he finished 10th in +/- last year, and 5th in WAR last year. His advanced metrics are extremely good. Advanced metrics, when looking at first 5 years of a career, have him with a 89+% match with Russell Westbrook (91.3), Isiah Thomas (91.2), Jim Paxson (91.1), Allen Iverson (90.4) and Rajon Rondo (89.8). For career his similarity scores are Damien Lillard and Klay Thompsen. That's not bad company.


Over the weekend the AP writer for the Wolves said they are looking to go big game hunting in free agency. I don't know what that means, but I'd guess they are going to make a run at Chris Paul or Blake Griffin. Those can only happen if Rubio is traded. That means going after Paul or Kyle Lowery.

I like Rubio, given the volume shooters on this team right now a guy like Rubio is a perfect fit. Defense, fast break, passing, not looking to shoot, has shown growth in shooting that if he's left alone he'll hit it, etc...

He's also still young at like 27 years old. Paul is 32 and maybe starting to trend down (or will soon). He's also a volume shooter. I'm not sure where shots are going to come from with KAT, Wiggins, Butler and either Paul or Griffin on the team.

This was a great trade for the Wolves. Butler is a great player who will make them better. His work ethic is awesome, he doesn't shrink from a challenge and he goes hard on offense and defense. He will set a good example for the younger players.

The Pippen comparison wasn't meant as a put-down. Pippin was a great player who any GM would love to have on their team. But he wasn't an Alpha (intentional reference) who could will a team to the promised land. Jimmy was in a similar situation in Chicago, he made the team better but it looked like the best they would achieve with him and the roster they had and projected to have was a .500 record, 8 seed and 1st round loss. Management has screwed things up there for years but the choice to blow it up and rebuild from scratch was the right one for the Bulls as well.

Jimmy also wasn't an angel in the locker room. He was disrespectful of the Mayor and I believe he sided with Wade in criticizing the younger players. Rondo stood up for the younger players and was a better leader in the locker room than Butler or Wade. Rondo was also the best player the Bulls had in the 1st round series with the Celtics. Rondo was the true Alpha and that series was over when he got hurt. Think about that, Rondo with all of his baggage was the better leader.

Now Jimmy isn't going to pull that crap with Thibs and Thibs is a great coach who provides the Alpha mentality that makes the whole team better so Jimmy doesn't have to wear that hat and can just work hard and play ball.

[clenz]

The Mayor? Tells me you're an Iowa State fan and anyone who doesn't agree with him is on your shit list.

Fred has no control there. He lost the locker room. He has no backing from the front office.

Butler is just fine.

[UNI88]

The Mayor? Tells me you're an Iowa State fan and anyone who doesn't agree with him is on your **** list.

Fred has no control there. He lost the locker room. He has no backing from the front office.

Butler is just fine.

Are you cherry-picking one part of my post and ignoring all of the substance in order to sell yourself on the idea that Butler is the 2nd coming?

Hoiberg has been a disaster as a professional coach but what Butler did to him was totally disrespectful. This is a clear example that shows that while Butler has relatively good character (for an NBA prima donna) it isn't as rock solid as you would like to believe. Butler should have been benched to teach him a lesson but that isn't allowed.