Today's Economic Lesson

[dbackjon]

Donk hero Steve Jobs literally INVENTED the "supply it and the demand will follow" and somehow Perry is an idiot for stating the same thing.

Good lord your analogies are still off the charts awful...

[dbackjon]

No, not every. I'm sure there are some outliers like Ganny's family. But I think most welfare recipients aspire to climbing out of the cellar.

I know that disputed a popular conk meme so I understand the consternation in these replies.

Do you think every corporate welfare case would forego government assistance? I'm sure there loads of businesses who say "thanks, but no thanks" while adjusting their bootstraps...

Comparing businesses to welfare recipients?

Well, if the shoe fits...

[AZGrizFan]

Donk hero Steve Jobs literally INVENTED the "supply it and the demand will follow" and somehow Perry is an idiot for stating the same thing.

Good lord your analogies are still off the charts awful...

And you're still a drama queen extraordinaire. Glad we know our roles here.

[dbackjon]

Good lord your analogies are still off the charts awful...

And you're still a drama queen extraordinaire. Glad we know our roles here.

OMG!!

An Earthquake in MONTANA!

[AZGrizFan]

And you're still a drama queen extraordinaire. Glad we know our roles here.

OMG!!

An Earthquake in MONTANA!

Noted.

[Chizzang]

St. Louis is lowering (Yes lowering) minimum wage...
That is also hilarious

Really they should just remove it completely
and see where it settles - I'd be damn curious

[AZGrizFan]

St. Louis is lowering (Yes lowering) minimum wage...
That is also hilarious

Really they should just remove it completely
and see where it settles - I'd be damn curious

Agreed.

[JohnStOnge]

phpBB [video]

[BDKJMU]

People want to be on welfare?

I'm sure some people do. Relatives on my wife's side of the family actually do and have said so. They like it apparently.

And if their welfare was taken away I bet they (at least some of them) would get jobs..

Edit their not there..

[CID1990]

You mean a long-dead guy who won't be running for President?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here

That it's not just some liberal kum-ba-yah.

I wasn't implying that -

I was saying who will be pushing it in 2019 in hopes of being the next Dem nominee

Now go pick your straw man up off the floor, Junior

[CitadelGrad]

You think that every recipient would forego welfare for a job?

But I think most welfare recipients aspire to climbing out of the cellar.

Far fewer than you might imagine. I'll give you a couple of anecdotes.

Like Gannon, I have some distant relatives on my father's side of the family, mostly in Arkansas, who are career welfare recipients. They have no ambition and low expectations. Their only labor is constantly scheming to get more benefits so they will never have to work. Many of them have been offered jobs and refused because they'd lose their benefits.

I used to be acquainted with a black guy who immigrated to the U.S. from Africa when he was just starting high school. His family moved to a large city in the U.S. and he began high school at a predominantly black school. He told me he was shocked by the number of his fellow students who had no desire other than going on welfare, getting food stamps, living in Section 8 housing and having a lot of babies because the govt. gives you more money for each additional child. These idiots thought they were going to get rich by having a lot of babies.

This African immigrant pretty much had no friends because he was disgusted by his schoolmates and thought they were a bad influence. Although I haven't talked to this guy in years, he was doing pretty well when I met him and he probably still is. Oh, and he's a Republican.

As for the guaranteed income, I wonder if anyone has considered the microeconomic implications, such as inflation in lower income communities and neighborhoods. If you are a landlord of low income housing and you know your renters have a guaranteed minimum income, you will probably be inclined to raise the rent. If you are a used car dealer and know that your likely customers, who are on the bottom end of the economic ladder, have a guaranteed minimum income, you will likely raise your prices. You can apply the same principle to just about any goods and services.

Oh, and dback is a freaking idiot. The premise of his original post is absurd. Anyone who has ever passed Econ 101 would know that.

[kalm]

But I think most welfare recipients aspire to climbing out of the cellar.

Far fewer than you might imagine. I'll give you a couple of anecdotes.

Like Gannon, I have some distant relatives on my father's side of the family, mostly in Arkansas, who are career welfare recipients. They have no ambition and low expectations. Their only labor is constantly scheming to get more benefits so they will never have to work. Many of them have been offered jobs and refused because they'd lose their benefits.

I used to be acquainted with a black guy who immigrated to the U.S. from Africa when he was just starting high school. His family moved to a large city in the U.S. and he began high school at a predominantly black school. He told me he was shocked by the number of his fellow students who had no desire other than going on welfare, getting food stamps, living in Section 8 housing and having a lot of babies because the govt. gives you more money for each additional child. These idiots thought they were going to get rich by having a lot of babies.

This African immigrant pretty much had no friends because he was disgusted by his schoolmates and thought they were a bad influence. Although I haven't talked to this guy in years, he was doing pretty well when I met him and he probably still is. Oh, and he's a Republican.

As for the guaranteed income, I wonder if anyone has considered the microeconomic implications, such as inflation in lower income communities and neighborhoods. If you are a landlord of low income housing and you know your renters have a guaranteed minimum income, you will probably be inclined to raise the rent. If you are a used car dealer and know that your likely customers, who are on the bottom end of the economic ladder, have a guaranteed minimum income, you will likely raise your prices. You can apply the same principle to just about any goods and services.

Oh, and dback is a freaking idiot. The premise of his original post is absurd. Anyone who has ever passed Econ 101 would know that.

Good post.

I don't know what the percentage of ne'r do wells is. There is a group who will never aspire to anything as suggested by Gannon's and your anecdotes. They exist and will continue to regardless. But there's also a tendency on the right to view all welfare recipients the same or fail to acknowledge that government assistance occasionally pulls people out of poverty.

As for Dback's initial post, you should try reading the news sometime.

[kalm]

I'm sure some people do. Relatives on my wife's side of the family actually do and have said so. They like it apparently.

And if there welfare was taken away I bet they (at least some of them) would get jobs..

I'm all for workfare.

Figuring out who watches their kids is the challenge.

[Col Hogan]

And if there welfare was taken away I bet they (at least some of them) would get jobs..

I'm all for workfare.

Figuring out who watches their kids is the challenge.

While I also feel that if welfare is taken away, some of the folks will get jobs, one has to wonder if the Maine food stamp experiment is a harbinger of how many ( or how few) will actually look for work...

If you are not aware, Maine instituted a policy that childless (no child care needed) able bodied people on Food Stamps hade to either accept work from the state or enter a job training program to continue drawing food stamps...

Food stamp claims plummeted....

Job openings for lower-skill workers are abundant in Maine, and for those ABAWD recipients who cannot find immediate employment, Maine offers both training and community service slots. But despite vigorous outreach efforts by the government to encourage participation, most childless adult recipients in Maine refused to participate in training or even to perform community service for six hours per week. When ABAWD recipients refused to participate, their food stamp benefits ceased.

In the first three months after Maine’s work policy went into effect, its caseload of able-bodied adults without dependents plummeted by 80 percent, falling from 13,332 recipients in Dec. 2014 to 2,678 in March 2015.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/02/08/maine ... -happened/

So, I wonder, where did all those able-bodied people go to get food? Why did they refuse training or community service?

[CAA Flagship]

I'm all for workfare.

Figuring out who watches their kids is the challenge.

While I also feel that if welfare is taken away, some of the folks will get jobs, one has to wonder if the Maine food stamp experiment is a harbinger of how many ( or how few) will actually look for work...

If you are not aware, Maine instituted a policy that childless (no child care needed) able bodied people on Food Stamps hade to either accept work from the state or enter a job training program to continue drawing food stamps...

Food stamp claims plummeted....

Job openings for lower-skill workers are abundant in Maine, and for those ABAWD recipients who cannot find immediate employment, Maine offers both training and community service slots. But despite vigorous outreach efforts by the government to encourage participation, most childless adult recipients in Maine refused to participate in training or even to perform community service for six hours per week. When ABAWD recipients refused to participate, their food stamp benefits ceased.

In the first three months after Maine’s work policy went into effect, its caseload of able-bodied adults without dependents plummeted by 80 percent, falling from 13,332 recipients in Dec. 2014 to 2,678 in March 2015.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/02/08/maine ... -happened/

So, I wonder, where did all those able-bodied people go to get food? Why did they refuse training or community service?

I posted, somewhere, that Alabama and Georgia had similar results.
This was simply a restoration of the original rules that were relaxed due to the recession (and likely rightfully so). But the right thing to do is normalize the system at this time.

[Aho Old Guy]

International workers are the backbone of the Seaside Farm Market in the remote northern Outer Banks town of Corolla. Only 500 people live there, but up to 50,000 visit every week in the summer.

But for the first time in 23 years, the family-owned produce and seafood market didn’t open this summer. Owners Bill and Julie Grandy weren’t able to get the H-2B visas they needed to bring in the workers from Mexico they’ve employed for years.

They didn’t get a single local applicant for jobs advertised at $15 per hour, Bill Grandy said, calling Corolla a “black hole” for local labor. The husband and wife have both had to take other jobs.

“It’s devastated us,” he said. “We have a half a million dollar investment just sitting there generating no money. I don’t know how to describe it other than (total) disaster.”
...

NC businesses feel the pain of cuts to H-2B visas

[SDHornet]

International workers are the backbone of the Seaside Farm Market in the remote northern Outer Banks town of Corolla. Only 500 people live there, but up to 50,000 visit every week in the summer.

But for the first time in 23 years, the family-owned produce and seafood market didn’t open this summer. Owners Bill and Julie Grandy weren’t able to get the H-2B visas they needed to bring in the workers from Mexico they’ve employed for years.

They didn’t get a single local applicant for jobs advertised at $15 per hour, Bill Grandy said, calling Corolla a “black hole” for local labor. The husband and wife have both had to take other jobs.

“It’s devastated us,” he said. “We have a half a million dollar investment just sitting there generating no money. I don’t know how to describe it other than (total) disaster.”
...

NC businesses feel the pain of cuts to H-2B visas

They're doing it wrong. Should have just hired some illegals like their competitors likely did.

[mrklean]

But I think most welfare recipients aspire to climbing out of the cellar.

Far fewer than you might imagine. I'll give you a couple of anecdotes.

Like Gannon, I have some distant relatives on my father's side of the family, mostly in Arkansas, who are career welfare recipients. They have no ambition and low expectations. Their only labor is constantly scheming to get more benefits so they will never have to work. Many of them have been offered jobs and refused because they'd lose their benefits.

I used to be acquainted with a black guy who immigrated to the U.S. from Africa when he was just starting high school. His family moved to a large city in the U.S. and he began high school at a predominantly black school. He told me he was shocked by the number of his fellow students who had no desire other than going on welfare, getting food stamps, living in Section 8 housing and having a lot of babies because the govt. gives you more money for each additional child. These idiots thought they were going to get rich by having a lot of babies.

This African immigrant pretty much had no friends because he was disgusted by his schoolmates and thought they were a bad influence. Although I haven't talked to this guy in years, he was doing pretty well when I met him and he probably still is. Oh, and he's a Republican.

As for the guaranteed income, I wonder if anyone has considered the microeconomic implications, such as inflation in lower income communities and neighborhoods. If you are a landlord of low income housing and you know your renters have a guaranteed minimum income, you will probably be inclined to raise the rent. If you are a used car dealer and know that your likely customers, who are on the bottom end of the economic ladder, have a guaranteed minimum income, you will likely raise your prices. You can apply the same principle to just about any goods and services.

Oh, and dback is a freaking idiot. The premise of his original post is absurd. Anyone who has ever passed Econ 101 would know that.

\
Then classic REPUKE ( Fox Network, Rush Limbaugh) LIE. No one wants to go on Public Assistance. MOST are put into a situation on going into this. The majority of single mothers who are on public assistance do so because of lack of child care. IF you want to get most people off of public assistance, help them with affordable child care. IN addition, no one gives mothers additional money for extra children anymore. This stopped in the Bush Era.

[Ibanez]

Far fewer than you might imagine. I'll give you a couple of anecdotes.

Like Gannon, I have some distant relatives on my father's side of the family, mostly in Arkansas, who are career welfare recipients. They have no ambition and low expectations. Their only labor is constantly scheming to get more benefits so they will never have to work. Many of them have been offered jobs and refused because they'd lose their benefits.

I used to be acquainted with a black guy who immigrated to the U.S. from Africa when he was just starting high school. His family moved to a large city in the U.S. and he began high school at a predominantly black school. He told me he was shocked by the number of his fellow students who had no desire other than going on welfare, getting food stamps, living in Section 8 housing and having a lot of babies because the govt. gives you more money for each additional child. These idiots thought they were going to get rich by having a lot of babies.

This African immigrant pretty much had no friends because he was disgusted by his schoolmates and thought they were a bad influence. Although I haven't talked to this guy in years, he was doing pretty well when I met him and he probably still is. Oh, and he's a Republican.

As for the guaranteed income, I wonder if anyone has considered the microeconomic implications, such as inflation in lower income communities and neighborhoods. If you are a landlord of low income housing and you know your renters have a guaranteed minimum income, you will probably be inclined to raise the rent. If you are a used car dealer and know that your likely customers, who are on the bottom end of the economic ladder, have a guaranteed minimum income, you will likely raise your prices. You can apply the same principle to just about any goods and services.

Oh, and dback is a freaking idiot. The premise of his original post is absurd. Anyone who has ever passed Econ 101 would know that.

\
Then classic REPUKE ( Fox Network, Rush Limbaugh) LIE. No one wants to go on Public Assistance. MOST are put into a situation on going into this. The majority of single mothers who are on public assistance do so because of lack of child care. IF you want to get most people off of public assistance, help them with affordable child care. IN addition, no one gives mothers additional money for extra children anymore. This stopped in the Bush Era.

If they didn't want to go on welfare, why didn't they do what they needed to ensure a proper life for themselves? There are people that aspire to nothing and are satisfied with that life.

[mrklean]

\
Then classic REPUKE ( Fox Network, Rush Limbaugh) LIE. No one wants to go on Public Assistance. MOST are put into a situation on going into this. The majority of single mothers who are on public assistance do so because of lack of child care. IF you want to get most people off of public assistance, help them with affordable child care. IN addition, no one gives mothers additional money for extra children anymore. This stopped in the Bush Era.

If they didn't want to go on welfare, why didn't they do what they needed to ensure a proper life for themselves? There are people that aspire to nothing and are satisfied with that life.

You are missing the point

[Ibanez]

If they didn't want to go on welfare, why didn't they do what they needed to ensure a proper life for themselves? There are people that aspire to nothing and are satisfied with that life.

You are missing the point

I don't think so. I get that there are situations that good people get into. I get that.

[mrklean]

You are missing the point

I don't think so. I get that there are situations that good people get into. I get that.

I gave you a reason why some women feel they can't get off public assistance. IF they don't have child care, they can't return to school or attend work.

[kalm]

You are missing the point

I don't think so. I get that there are situations that good people get into. I get that.

And there are a number of not good people, too lazy, stupid, selfish, or incompetent to ever rise up. And they breed.

[Ibanez]

I don't think so. I get that there are situations that good people get into. I get that.

I gave you a reason why some women feel they can't get off public assistance. IF they don't have child care, they can't return to school or attend work.

I get child care.

On the other hand - If the situation applies where you can't support yourself or haven't finished school then you shouldn't be having children. If you can't handle the responsibility, don't take it on. That is, if you screwed around in HS and didn't take education seriously. For others, I get that it's difficult.


It's why I say education is a "silver bullet". If you focus on getting some sort of education and training, you can pull yourself out of a lifestyle. That doesn't mean you need to go get a 4 yr degree, but get some sort of skill other than turning tricks and flipping Whoppers.

[mrklean]

I gave you a reason why some women feel they can't get off public assistance. IF they don't have child care, they can't return to school or attend work.

I get child care.

On the other hand - If the situation applies where you can't support yourself or haven't finished school then you shouldn't be having children. If you can't handle the responsibility, don't take it on. That is, if you screwed around in HS and didn't take education seriously. For others, I get that it's difficult.


It's why I say education is a "silver bullet". If you focus on getting some sort of education and training, you can pull yourself out of a lifestyle. That doesn't mean you need to go get a 4 yr degree, but get some sort of skill other than turning tricks and flipping Whoppers.

I'm all for this, but what about the women who dropped out of school? We need a plan for them so they can become productive people in our society. I don't want them to sit around all damn day spending our tax dollars.