Salon: Trump's Western Civilizaton speech is "white nationalist" rhetoric

[kalm]

Kalm's list of favorite conservatives:

Burke
TR (careful, labels are tricky)
Buckley
Ike
Nixon (rat bastard but I liked him especially after watching Frost Nixon)
Will
Ben Stein
Buchanan
Ivytalk
CID
UNI88
OLFU
Gannonfan

[kalm]

And Friedman, Hayek, Greenspan, Thatcher and Reagan were neo-liberals.

Labels are tricky and I love this topic.

Because you are an unreconstructed kalmunist.

You got that shit straight, homey!

[Ivytalk]

Kalm's list of favorite conservatives:

Burke
TR (careful, labels are tricky)
Buckley
Ike
Nixon (rat bastard but I liked him especially after watching Frost Nixon)
Will
Ben Stein
Buchanan
Ivytalk
CID
UNI88
OLFU
Gannonfan

Wait a second.

Gannonfan?

[kalm]

Kalm's list of favorite conservatives:

Burke
TR (careful, labels are tricky)
Buckley
Ike
Nixon (rat bastard but I liked him especially after watching Frost Nixon)
Will
Ben Stein
Buchanan
Ivytalk
CID
UNI88
OLFU
Gannonfan

Wait a second.

Gannonfan?

Shhhh....don't tell him. He doesn't realize yet.

[Jjoey52]

FTR, Hillary is a neoconservative just like Dubya.

I've been saying this for a looong time

Except that Dubya wasn't really a neocon- he just surrounded himself with them.

In terms of neoconservative foreign policy, Hillary has been a full on acolyte of Leo Strauss himself - the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya.

"We came, we saw, he died."


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I do need to change on Hillary, her and W are very similar, except he was not as corrupt. I concur Labels are very tricky.


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[Bisonfanatical]

Sorry I was too cryptic

There was no profound meaning there, I just was making a bad allusion to liberalism and American-flavor "progressivism" being different things

I dislike movements as much as I dislike labels.

I agree, the only good movement is a bowel movement, although sometimes that can even get away from you.

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[CID1990]

And in your world, Ronald Reagan, Ike and Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't be true conservatives or Republicans.

Conservative is an ambiguous word with lots of meanings and too many fools think they are the final arbiter on who is and isn't a conservative.

FTR, Hillary is a neoconservative just like Dubya.

And Friedman, Hayek, Greenspan, Thatcher and Reagan were neo-liberals.

Labels are tricky and I love this topic.

Sez the guy who tries SO HARD to get himself classified as something he ain't


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[JohnStOnge]

I do think that...yes...Caucasian European civilization is disproportionately responsible for the world as we know it for better or for worse. There's no way to know because we can't create the scenario but I don't think we'd have the scientific method as we know it, the internal combustion engine, aircraft, antibiotics, the harnessing of electricity, computers as we know them, a history of having landed on the moon, satellites orbiting the Earth, nuclear weapons, and a whole bunch of other things without it. I think if you could somehow go back and eliminate the civilization we're talking about the human race would still be riding horses around...in SOME places while other places wouldn't even be doing THAT... and living in a world without things like power grids. No TV. No telephones. No air conditioning. Etc.

But it's not cool to say that.

Are you saying white people or western civilization? There is a big difference. There have been people of all colors who have contributed to the greatness of our country. I hate to agree with trump but he is right. However, you have to state that if it were not for Africa, the Middle East and Asia, Europe would have never known about Algebra, geometry, Modern Medicine or astronomy. It took the Crusades before Europeans learned that they needed to wash there hands before they operated on a person. But just saying. Like your view point

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

[Ivytalk]

Are you saying white people or western civilization? There is a big difference. There have been people of all colors who have contributed to the greatness of our country. I hate to agree with trump but he is right. However, you have to state that if it were not for Africa, the Middle East and Asia, Europe would have never known about Algebra, geometry, Modern Medicine or astronomy. It took the Crusades before Europeans learned that they needed to wash there hands before they operated on a person. But just saying. Like your view point

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

Oh, boy, is this great!

[kalm]

And Friedman, Hayek, Greenspan, Thatcher and Reagan were neo-liberals.

Labels are tricky and I love this topic.

Sez the guy who tries SO HARD to get himself classified as something he ain't


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh boo fucking hoo. I'm a liberal and a cynic. I'm sorry that has you gnashing your teeth.

[Grizalltheway]

Are you saying white people or western civilization? There is a big difference. There have been people of all colors who have contributed to the greatness of our country. I hate to agree with trump but he is right. However, you have to state that if it were not for Africa, the Middle East and Asia, Europe would have never known about Algebra, geometry, Modern Medicine or astronomy. It took the Crusades before Europeans learned that they needed to wash there hands before they operated on a person. But just saying. Like your view point

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

And without black people, no peanut butter. Fuck that.

[UNI88]

Are you saying white people or western civilization? There is a big difference. There have been people of all colors who have contributed to the greatness of our country. I hate to agree with trump but he is right. However, you have to state that if it were not for Africa, the Middle East and Asia, Europe would have never known about Algebra, geometry, Modern Medicine or astronomy. It took the Crusades before Europeans learned that they needed to wash there hands before they operated on a person. But just saying. Like your view point

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

And where would we be if Muslims hadn't saved all of the classical knowledge when it was essentially destroyed in Europe during the Dark Ages? How much of what the West created was built off of findings that Marco Polo and other explorers brought back from China and elsewhere? Yes, white people contributed a hell of a lot but it wasn't done in a vacuum.

[mrklean]

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

And where would we be if Muslims hadn't saved all of the classical knowledge when it was essentially destroyed in Europe during the Dark Ages? How much of what the West created was built off of findings that Marco Polo and other explorers brought back from China and elsewhere? Yes, white people contributed a hell of a lot but it wasn't done in a vacuum.

This is the point I was making

[mrklean]

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

And without black people, no peanut butter. **** that.

Also modern music in this country,
Jazz
Blues
Gospel
Rock and Roll
Rhythm and Blues
Hip Hop
Country Music (This is my favorite) The earliest recordings of country music were from farmers that lived in the Mississippi Delta.

[GannonFan]

Wait a second.

Gannonfan?

Shhhh....don't tell him. He doesn't realize yet.

I've always said I lean right economically and I lean left in every other category. I'm pro-free trade (done correctly, not just a disguised power grab by the entrenched elite) and I'm anti capital punishment, pro gay marriage, pro-immigration and so on. I'm what you aspire to be when you joke about being a centrist. Keep working hard, one day you might be me.

[Ivytalk]

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

And where would we be if Muslims hadn't saved all of the classical knowledge when it was essentially destroyed in Europe during the Dark Ages? How much of what the West created was built off of findings that Marco Polo and other explorers brought back from China and elsewhere? Yes, white people contributed a hell of a lot but it wasn't done in a vacuum.

Good old "You didn't build that!" UNI88.

[Ivytalk]

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

And where would we be if Muslims hadn't saved all of the classical knowledge when it was essentially destroyed in Europe during the Dark Ages? How much of what the West created was built off of findings that Marco Polo and other explorers brought back from China and elsewhere? Yes, white people contributed a hell of a lot but it wasn't done in a vacuum.

So what have the Muslins done for the world in the past 600 years? Bupkes. Pretty hard to have a "clash of civilizations" when one side hasn't left the Middle Ages.

[kalm]

Shhhh....don't tell him. He doesn't realize yet.

I've always said I lean right economically and I lean left in every other category. I'm pro-free trade (done correctly, not just a disguised power grab by the entrenched elite) and I'm anti capital punishment, pro gay marriage, pro-immigration and so on. I'm what you aspire to be when you joke about being a centrist. Keep working hard, one day you might be me.

Here I go and pay you a compliment and this is what o get in return...

[mrklean]

Are you saying white people or western civilization? There is a big difference. There have been people of all colors who have contributed to the greatness of our country. I hate to agree with trump but he is right. However, you have to state that if it were not for Africa, the Middle East and Asia, Europe would have never known about Algebra, geometry, Modern Medicine or astronomy. It took the Crusades before Europeans learned that they needed to wash there hands before they operated on a person. But just saying. Like your view point

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

You really believe this? You don't think that someone else would have had a idea for a better mode of transportation. What drives invention is the NEED to do better. According to you, no one would have wanted to have a better life...............Typical white male attitude, but you get it honest so I'm not mad.

[kalm]

I'm talking about white people. I think some of what you said is due to some of the propaganda I've seen but if you want to give me specifics we can talk about it. What we call "civilization" originated in the Middle East and Northern Africa so of course subsequent civilizations built upon that. Nevertheless, White people are responsible for things like the harnessing of electricity, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine, computer technology, air conditioning (no, it wasn't the Black guy that gets credited with it each Black history month), aircraft, and so on.

Without White people the most effective mode of land transportation would probably still be a horse drawn wagon and ships would still be crossing the oceans using sails and/or oars. There would be no electric grids, televisions, etc.

And "Modern Medicine?" Give me a break.

You really believe this? You don't think that someone else would have had a idea for a better mode of transportation. What drives invention is the NEED to do better. According to you, no one would have wanted to have a better life...............Typical white male attitude, but you get it honest so I'm not mad.

Agreed on invention. Shit may have been developed at different times and via different paths and discoveries, but it seems reasonable to assume it still would have happened regardless of skin color.

But why do you think JSO's rant is "typical white male attitude"? I don't think that way and I'm pretty sure many other white dudes don't as well.

[AZGrizFan]

Where did this "reasonable" KKKleanex come from?

[OL FU]

You really believe this? You don't think that someone else would have had a idea for a better mode of transportation. What drives invention is the NEED to do better. According to you, no one would have wanted to have a better life...............Typical white male attitude, but you get it honest so I'm not mad.

Agreed on invention. **** may have been developed at different times and via different paths and discoveries, but it seems reasonable to assume it still would have happened regardless of skin color.

But why do you think JSO's rant is "typical white male attitude"? I don't think that way and I'm pretty sure many other white dudes don't as well.

White males are super! just ask DBack

[mrklean]

You really believe this? You don't think that someone else would have had a idea for a better mode of transportation. What drives invention is the NEED to do better. According to you, no one would have wanted to have a better life...............Typical white male attitude, but you get it honest so I'm not mad.

Agreed on invention. **** may have been developed at different times and via different paths and discoveries, but it seems reasonable to assume it still would have happened regardless of skin color.

But why do you think JSO's rant is "typical white male attitude"? I don't think that way and I'm pretty sure many other white dudes don't as well.

To say only white men would have invented this is so stupid. Inventions are driven by serious need. Medical inventions are driven because you have a medical outbreak or a large number in your population is sick. Nuclear energy was inspired by the need to kill a large number of people. It has nothing to do with who is smartest.

[kalm]

Agreed on invention. **** may have been developed at different times and via different paths and discoveries, but it seems reasonable to assume it still would have happened regardless of skin color.

But why do you think JSO's rant is "typical white male attitude"? I don't think that way and I'm pretty sure many other white dudes don't as well.

To say only white men would have invented this is so stupid. Inventions are driven by serious need. Medical inventions are driven because you have a medical outbreak or a large number in your population is sick. Nuclear energy was inspired by the need to kill a large number of people. It has nothing to do with who is smartest.

Um yeah...I was agreeing with you on that part.

[Ivytalk]

Agreed on invention. **** may have been developed at different times and via different paths and discoveries, but it seems reasonable to assume it still would have happened regardless of skin color.

But why do you think JSO's rant is "typical white male attitude"? I don't think that way and I'm pretty sure many other white dudes don't as well.

To say only white men would have invented this is so stupid. Inventions are driven by serious need. Medical inventions are driven because you have a medical outbreak or a large number in your population is sick. Nuclear energy was inspired by the need to kill a large number of people. It has nothing to do with who is smartest.

You overgeneralize when you talk about nuclear ENERGY. Nuclear WEAPONS, you're closer to the mark. We didn't want to lose 800,000 troops in an invasion of Japan.