Salon: Trump's Western Civilizaton speech is "white nationalist" rhetoric

[Bisonfanatical]

Consider the source

An educated black Jew?
You must not be familiar with the Late, Great, Chief Reuben Greenberg



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuben_Greenberg

Wait...did you assume he was a white dude b/c of his name?

Well played

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[JohnStOnge]

I don't think it was Muslims that saved most of the classical knowledge. I think it was Catholic monks.
Otherwise, of course there is no vacuum. Civilizations build upon each other. But I don't think we'd have anything like the advanced society we have right now if you left everybody else in place and removed what we call Caucasians. Aircraft. Automobiles. Calculus. Space travel. Physics. Computers. Elevators. Air Conditioners. Traffic lights (no, that did not come from a Black guy like you hear every year during Black History month), the Scientific Method as we know it. And yes, by any reasonable standard of what "Modern Medicine" is, Modern Medicine. All that came from Caucasians. And a lot more.

welcome back to the land of the rational, JSO

i know it will only last until your next political post,

but still


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I have always been rational. The whole thing with you appears to be me recognizing that Trump is an atrocity. I don't know why that gets to you because you seem to likewise recognize him for what he is when you're not directing your comments at me but it apparently does.

[CID1990]

welcome back to the land of the rational, JSO

i know it will only last until your next political post,

but still


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I have always been rational. The whole thing with you appears to be me recognizing that Trump is an atrocity. I don't know why that gets to you because you seem to likewise recognize him for what he is when you're not directing your comments at me but it apparently does.

People with mental illnesses are not rational, John.

Since you are A-OK with psychological analyses from a distance by questionably qualified people, you should accept my diagnosis of you

Borderline Asperger's Syndrome with clear manifestations of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

Oh and there's a slight hint of Gender Dysphoria hiding behind your obvious case of Ichthyphilia




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[Pwns]

I have always been rational. The whole thing with you appears to be me recognizing that Trump is an atrocity. I don't know why that gets to you because you seem to likewise recognize him for what he is when you're not directing your comments at me but it apparently does.

I'm not sure what your point is by continuing to remind us all that Trump is a juvenile narcissist. Almost no one here would disagree with you on that.

You know who I consider more dangerous than someone like Trump? Someone who holds Trump's contempt for rules and the system and is a lot smarter and better at hiding it. The Hildabest more fits that bill.

As of now Ryan and the Republicans are pretty much setting the entire agenda in congress and I don't see anything that tells me Turmp isn't listening to guys like Mattis and Rex Tillerson on a lot of foreign affairs. I couldn't care a whole lot less if he looks like an idiot speaking at the G20. In the grand scheme of things that's just not that important.

[UNI88]

And where would we be if Muslims hadn't saved all of the classical knowledge when it was essentially destroyed in Europe during the Dark Ages? How much of what the West created was built off of findings that Marco Polo and other explorers brought back from China and elsewhere? Yes, white people contributed a hell of a lot but it wasn't done in a vacuum.

I don't think it was Muslims that saved most of the classical knowledge. I think it was Catholic monks.
Otherwise, of course there is no vacuum. Civilizations build upon each other. But I don't think we'd have anything like the advanced society we have right now if you left everybody else in place and removed what we call Caucasians. Aircraft. Automobiles. Calculus. Space travel. Physics. Computers. Elevators. Air Conditioners. Traffic lights (no, that did not come from a Black guy like you hear every year during Black History month), the Scientific Method as we know it. And yes, by any reasonable standard of what "Modern Medicine" is, Modern Medicine. All that came from Caucasians. And a lot more.

A couple of points to consider John ...

One - yes there were probably a limited number of documents containing classical knowledge that survived the Dark Ages in Catholic monasteries but the reality is that there weren't enough to help spread that knowledge and kick start the Renaissance. That information was in the hands of other Christian monks (Orthodox) and in places like Bagdad. It started making its way back to Europe during the Crusades and with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans.

Two - yes, caucasians have done a whole hell of a lot to help advance knowledge since the Renaissance but they didn't start from scratch, they were lucky they were in a position to do so and people with darker skin contributed to that advancement as well. Trace the lines of history back through the civilizations from Western Europe to Rome to Greece to Eqypt to Sumer. You talk about removing caucasians, what happens if you remove Sumer and/or Egypt? Does Western Civilization happen as we know it? What if you take away the advancements that the Chinese made long before Europeans? Europe's survival and growth also required a lot of luck. What if Ghengis Khan didn't die when he did? Would the Mongols have sacked Vienna and rampaged through Europe? Would Europeans have attained the dominant world position that they did?

Third - your theory that without caucasians those advancements wouldn't have happened is just that, a theory. While it may be reasonable, it can't be proven. A competing theory that without caucasians, people would have come up with similar and possibly better advancements is also valid. Is it possible that without caucasians, people would never have become so reliant on coal and gas and the Earth would be better for it? Yes.

Finally - African Americans have contributed to what you outlined above. A good observer factors in the variables that impacted their ability to contribute and the obstacles they faced were not insignificant - slavery, lack of access to a quality education, etc. I suggest you open your mind and see Hidden Figures, read about Benjamin Banneker, etc.

[kalm]

I don't think it was Muslims that saved most of the classical knowledge. I think it was Catholic monks.
Otherwise, of course there is no vacuum. Civilizations build upon each other. But I don't think we'd have anything like the advanced society we have right now if you left everybody else in place and removed what we call Caucasians. Aircraft. Automobiles. Calculus. Space travel. Physics. Computers. Elevators. Air Conditioners. Traffic lights (no, that did not come from a Black guy like you hear every year during Black History month), the Scientific Method as we know it. And yes, by any reasonable standard of what "Modern Medicine" is, Modern Medicine. All that came from Caucasians. And a lot more.

A couple of points to consider John ...

One - yes there were probably a limited number of documents containing classical knowledge that survived the Dark Ages in Catholic monasteries but the reality is that there weren't enough to help spread that knowledge and kick start the Renaissance. That information was in the hands of other Christian monks (Orthodox) and in places like Bagdad. It started making its way back to Europe during the Crusades and with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans.

Two - yes, caucasians have done a whole hell of a lot to help advance knowledge since the Renaissance but they didn't start from scratch, they were lucky they were in a position to do so and people with darker skin contributed to that advancement as well. Trace the lines of history back through the civilizations from Western Europe to Rome to Greece to Eqypt to Sumer. You talk about removing caucasians, what happens if you remove Sumer and/or Egypt? Does Western Civilization happen as we know it? What if you take away the advancements that the Chinese made long before Europeans? Europe's survival and growth also required a lot of luck. What if Ghengis Khan didn't die when he did? Would the Mongols have sacked Vienna and rampaged through Europe? Would Europeans have attained the dominant world position that they did?

Third - your theory that without caucasians those advancements wouldn't have happened is just that, a theory. While it may be reasonable, it can't be proven. A competing theory that without caucasians, people would have come up with similar and possibly better advancements is also valid. Is it possible that without caucasians, people would never have become so reliant on coal and gas and the Earth would be better for it? Yes.

Finally - African Americans have contributed to what you outlined above. A good observer factors in the variables that impacted their ability to contribute and the obstacles they faced were not insignificant - slavery, lack of access to a quality education, etc. I suggest you open your mind and see Hidden Figures, read about Benjamin Banneker, etc.

Good point on the Mongols. They made it all the way to the forests of Western Europe and even Norway but their dominance was dwindling by that time and they didn't seem to wreak as much havoc as they did on the middle and near east. From what I've read, the siege of Baghdad not only made the Tigris run black with the ink of the great library and red with the blood of philosophers, but truly ended an era of Muslim enlightenment, from which thy never recovered.

And yes, supposing caucasian inventions wouldn't have happened without caucasians is silly.

[Pwns]

A couple of points to consider John ...

One - yes there were probably a limited number of documents containing classical knowledge that survived the Dark Ages in Catholic monasteries but the reality is that there weren't enough to help spread that knowledge and kick start the Renaissance. That information was in the hands of other Christian monks (Orthodox) and in places like Bagdad. It started making its way back to Europe during the Crusades and with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans.

Two - yes, caucasians have done a whole hell of a lot to help advance knowledge since the Renaissance but they didn't start from scratch, they were lucky they were in a position to do so and people with darker skin contributed to that advancement as well. Trace the lines of history back through the civilizations from Western Europe to Rome to Greece to Eqypt to Sumer. You talk about removing caucasians, what happens if you remove Sumer and/or Egypt? Does Western Civilization happen as we know it? What if you take away the advancements that the Chinese made long before Europeans? Europe's survival and growth also required a lot of luck. What if Ghengis Khan didn't die when he did? Would the Mongols have sacked Vienna and rampaged through Europe? Would Europeans have attained the dominant world position that they did?

Third - your theory that without caucasians those advancements wouldn't have happened is just that, a theory. While it may be reasonable, it can't be proven. A competing theory that without caucasians, people would have come up with similar and possibly better advancements is also valid. Is it possible that without caucasians, people would never have become so reliant on coal and gas and the Earth would be better for it? Yes.

Finally - African Americans have contributed to what you outlined above. A good observer factors in the variables that impacted their ability to contribute and the obstacles they faced were not insignificant - slavery, lack of access to a quality education, etc. I suggest you open your mind and see Hidden Figures, read about Benjamin Banneker, etc.

What kind of knowledge was really preserved between the Romans and the renaissance? Maybe historical knowledge, but not much in terms of science and technology. Medieval Europe was superior to ancient Rome in terms of architecture, mining, metallurgy, sea travel, and agriculture. They probably weren't superior politically or socially in terms of rights, but in terms of technology and science they were superior to Rome in probably just about every way. The "Dark Ages" is basically a myth created by Roman nostalgics in medieval times.

[GannonFan]

A couple of points to consider John ...

One - yes there were probably a limited number of documents containing classical knowledge that survived the Dark Ages in Catholic monasteries but the reality is that there weren't enough to help spread that knowledge and kick start the Renaissance. That information was in the hands of other Christian monks (Orthodox) and in places like Bagdad. It started making its way back to Europe during the Crusades and with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans.

Two - yes, caucasians have done a whole hell of a lot to help advance knowledge since the Renaissance but they didn't start from scratch, they were lucky they were in a position to do so and people with darker skin contributed to that advancement as well. Trace the lines of history back through the civilizations from Western Europe to Rome to Greece to Eqypt to Sumer. You talk about removing caucasians, what happens if you remove Sumer and/or Egypt? Does Western Civilization happen as we know it? What if you take away the advancements that the Chinese made long before Europeans? Europe's survival and growth also required a lot of luck. What if Ghengis Khan didn't die when he did? Would the Mongols have sacked Vienna and rampaged through Europe? Would Europeans have attained the dominant world position that they did?

Third - your theory that without caucasians those advancements wouldn't have happened is just that, a theory. While it may be reasonable, it can't be proven. A competing theory that without caucasians, people would have come up with similar and possibly better advancements is also valid. Is it possible that without caucasians, people would never have become so reliant on coal and gas and the Earth would be better for it? Yes.

Finally - African Americans have contributed to what you outlined above. A good observer factors in the variables that impacted their ability to contribute and the obstacles they faced were not insignificant - slavery, lack of access to a quality education, etc. I suggest you open your mind and see Hidden Figures, read about Benjamin Banneker, etc.

What kind of knowledge was really preserved between the Romans and the renaissance? Maybe historical knowledge, but not much in terms of science and technology. Medieval Europe was superior to ancient Rome in terms of architecture, mining, metallurgy, sea travel, and agriculture. They probably weren't superior politically or socially in terms of rights, but in terms of technology and science they were superior to Rome in probably just about every way. The "Dark Ages" is basically a myth created by Roman nostalgics in medieval times.

Well, there was a great deal of anti-Catholic bigotry that led to the Dark Ages being considered dark. It played well with the Reformation to think that the Church caused 500-600 years of blocking human progress. I'm sure it did to some extent, but never close to the magnitude that many pretend it did. It's dangerous to understate the political and social dropoff from the Roman times, though. Those things added the cohesion that allowed the Roman Empire to exist and maintain itself for centuries and allowed the other arts to have a home to be practiced.

[AZGrizFan]

I have always been rational. The whole thing with you appears to be me recognizing that Trump is an atrocity. I don't know why that gets to you because you seem to likewise recognize him for what he is when you're not directing your comments at me but it apparently does.

People with mental illnesses are not rational, John.

Since you are A-OK with psychological analyses from a distance by questionably qualified people, you should accept my diagnosis of you

Borderline Asperger's Syndrome with clear manifestations of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

Oh and there's a slight hint of Gender Dysphoria hiding behind your obvious case of Ichthyphilia

This might be my new favorite post from CID, EVER.

[JohnStOnge]

People with mental illnesses are not rational, John.

Since you are A-OK with psychological analyses from a distance by questionably qualified people, you should accept my diagnosis of you

Borderline Asperger's Syndrome with clear manifestations of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

Oh and there's a slight hint of Gender Dysphoria hiding behind your obvious case of Ichthyphilia

Once again I benefited from frequenting this forum by learning a new word (Icthyphilia). It means what I suspected it meant. But I hadn't heard it before.

I do have OCD but I'm fine with it. My OCD has to do with making sure I'm correct and that I thoroughly back up what I say. It's served me well over my career because I do have to do that. Sometimes it does put me in a time crunch. But on balance the impact has been positive.

[Ivytalk]

People with mental illnesses are not rational, John.

Since you are A-OK with psychological analyses from a distance by questionably qualified people, you should accept my diagnosis of you

Borderline Asperger's Syndrome with clear manifestations of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

Oh and there's a slight hint of Gender Dysphoria hiding behind your obvious case of Ichthyphilia

Once again I benefited from frequenting this forum by learning a new word (Icthyphilia). It means what I suspected it meant. But I hadn't heard it before.

I do have OCD but I'm fine with it. My OCD has to do with making sure I'm correct and that I thoroughly back up what I say. It's served me well over my career because I do have to do that. Sometimes it does put me in a time crunch. But on balance the impact has been positive.

You'd have many fewer "time crunches" if you cut way back on your repetitive anti-Trump posts. You won't change any minds on here, or any results in the world at large. Dr. Ivytalk prescribes more fishing and less posting.

[Jjoey52]

Does anyone think that anyone's mind has been changed on anything on these boards by anybody?


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[Ivytalk]

Does anyone think that anyone's mind has been changed on anything on these boards by anybody?


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Actually, yes. Thanks to CS.com, I now firmly believe that Wawa is the best convenience store in the nation!

[kalm]

Does anyone think that anyone's mind has been changed on anything on these boards by anybody?


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My mind gets changed often by what people post.

[Grizalltheway]

Does anyone think that anyone's mind has been changed on anything on these boards by anybody?


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My mind gets changed often by what people post.

Yeah right, kalm.

~89Hen

[Jjoey52]

Does anyone think that anyone's mind has been changed on anything on these boards by anybody?


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Actually, yes. Thanks to CS.com, I now firmly believe that Wawa is the best convenience store in the nation!

WAWA cannot even come close to Maverik.


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[89Hen]

Does anyone think that anyone's mind has been changed on anything on these boards by anybody?


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My mind gets changed often by what people post.

Yeah right, kalm.

[JohnStOnge]

Once again I benefited from frequenting this forum by learning a new word (Icthyphilia). It means what I suspected it meant. But I hadn't heard it before.

I do have OCD but I'm fine with it. My OCD has to do with making sure I'm correct and that I thoroughly back up what I say. It's served me well over my career because I do have to do that. Sometimes it does put me in a time crunch. But on balance the impact has been positive.

You'd have many fewer "time crunches" if you cut way back on your repetitive anti-Trump posts. You won't change any minds on here, or any results in the world at large. Dr. Ivytalk prescribes more fishing and less posting.

That's recreational. And it doesn't take much time to identify the problems with Trump.

[Ivytalk]

You'd have many fewer "time crunches" if you cut way back on your repetitive anti-Trump posts. You won't change any minds on here, or any results in the world at large. Dr. Ivytalk prescribes more fishing and less posting.

That's recreational. And it doesn't take much time to identify the problems with Trump.

But you identify them over...and over...and over...

OCD can be cured.

[JohnStOnge]

That's recreational. And it doesn't take much time to identify the problems with Trump.

But you identify them over...and over...and over....

They keep getting manifested over and over. And over.

When people are screwing up like the people who have been supporting and continue to support Trump have been and are there is nothing lost in trying to bring them back to their senses. If you don't succeed, nothing is lost.

And I still don't get why you continue to support Trump. You say you didn't vote for him. But you sure seem to get affected by somebody criticizing him and pointing out that having him as President is a huge problem.

[Ivytalk]

But you identify them over...and over...and over....

They keep getting manifested over and over. And over.

When people are screwing up like the people who have been supporting and continue to support Trump have been and are there is nothing lost in trying to bring them back to their senses. If you don't succeed, nothing is lost.

And I still don't get why you continue to support Trump. You say you didn't vote for him. But you sure seem to get affected by somebody criticizing him and pointing out that having him as President is a huge problem.

I don't support Trump personally. However, like many conservatives, I am hoping for the implementation of small-government, pro- liberty policies that will turn the country around -- for that brief nanosecond that the GOP controls all 3 branches of government.

That's the last time I'll say that. Everyone else on this board understands my view.

But you're no conservative, so never mind.

[JohnStOnge]

They keep getting manifested over and over. And over.

When people are screwing up like the people who have been supporting and continue to support Trump have been and are there is nothing lost in trying to bring them back to their senses. If you don't succeed, nothing is lost.

And I still don't get why you continue to support Trump. You say you didn't vote for him. But you sure seem to get affected by somebody criticizing him and pointing out that having him as President is a huge problem.

I don't support Trump personally. However, like many conservatives, I am hoping for the implementation of small-government, pro- liberty policies that will turn the country around -- for that brief nanosecond that the GOP controls all 3 branches of government.

That's the last time I'll say that. Everyone else on this board understands my view.

But you're no conservative, so never mind.

I can't believe that someone who is smart enough to have been accepted to Harvard actually thinks that Trump being elected is in the interest of what you say you want. It's not going to work. The Conservative movement is now "branded" with Trump. It's not going to end well for people who want what you say you want.

[kalm]

They keep getting manifested over and over. And over.

When people are screwing up like the people who have been supporting and continue to support Trump have been and are there is nothing lost in trying to bring them back to their senses. If you don't succeed, nothing is lost.

And I still don't get why you continue to support Trump. You say you didn't vote for him. But you sure seem to get affected by somebody criticizing him and pointing out that having him as President is a huge problem.

I don't support Trump personally. However, like many conservatives, I am hoping for the implementation of small-government, pro- liberty policies that will turn the country around -- for that brief nanosecond that the GOP controls all 3 branches of government.

That's the last time I'll say that. Everyone else on this board understands my view.

But you're no conservative, so never mind.

Modern conservatives are for small government and pro-liberty?

Who knew???

[CID1990]

Does anyone think that anyone's mind has been changed on anything on these boards by anybody?


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Actually, yes. Thanks to CS.com, I now firmly believe that Wawa is the best convenience store in the nation!

wait for my review on the Wawa in Fredericksburg

it will not be flattering


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[houndawg]

People with mental illnesses are not rational, John.

Since you are A-OK with psychological analyses from a distance by questionably qualified people, you should accept my diagnosis of you

Borderline Asperger's Syndrome with clear manifestations of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

Oh and there's a slight hint of Gender Dysphoria hiding behind your obvious case of Ichthyphilia

This might be my new favorite post from CID, EVER.

His diagnosis missed the tertiary syphilis.