Kim Jung Ir Threatens Nucrear Weapons In Merciress Offensive

[houndawg]

But that's exactly what he did by refusing to hold up the US end of the Framework Agreement of 1994 which had kept North Koreas plutonium encased in concrete for eight years and UN monitors at their plutonium reactor 24/7. There is nothing gray here folks; the North Koreans upheld their end of the agreement for eight years. The Bush administration broke the agreement by failing to normalize relations and we were back to square one. Sorry, amigo, but SeattleGriz does not have a clear line of thinking here and in fact doesn't seem to remember at all why we are where we are with respect to North Korea today.

The Republicans simply aren't capable of thinking outside the military box when it comes to conquering a country. Normalize relations with North Korea and we'll have them eating out of our hand in a decade. Once the internet is established there, it is only a matter of time until they are ours.

Ok I see what you're saying now. For some reason I was thinking you meant that Bush didn't put Military pressure on when he should have been and sat idly by while he was developing the capability instead of putting a stop to it with some sort of force. I get what you're saying now.

That is a problem with the two parties exchanging power on some of these issues. When one party makes some progress or appears to be making progress on it's own behalf and the other doesn't see it that way they get in office and change the course and then both blame the other for the **** up. If a policy were CLEARLY working it would be foolhardy to change it but if it isn't clearly working then you wouldn't expect Obama to continue Bush's "failed" policy and you can't expect that Bush would have continued Clinton's "failed" policy. Thus the plausible deniability of the system and the ability to argue about who is responsible for this or that.

And the band played on...

The point is that Clinton's policy was working. North Korea wanted to normalize relations and the Bush administration wanted an axis of evil. Enter A. Q. Khan's network, the Wal-Mart of nuclear proliferation. This is what republicans refuse to see: Anything that opens NK society any amount is good for us and bad for the NK government.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Ok I see what you're saying now. For some reason I was thinking you meant that Bush didn't put Military pressure on when he should have been and sat idly by while he was developing the capability instead of putting a stop to it with some sort of force. I get what you're saying now.

That is a problem with the two parties exchanging power on some of these issues. When one party makes some progress or appears to be making progress on it's own behalf and the other doesn't see it that way they get in office and change the course and then both blame the other for the **** up. If a policy were CLEARLY working it would be foolhardy to change it but if it isn't clearly working then you wouldn't expect Obama to continue Bush's "failed" policy and you can't expect that Bush would have continued Clinton's "failed" policy. Thus the plausible deniability of the system and the ability to argue about who is responsible for this or that.

And the band played on...

The point is that Clinton's policy was working. North Korea wanted to normalize relations and the Bush administration wanted an axis of evil. Enter A. Q. Khan's network, the Wal-Mart of nuclear proliferation. This is what republicans refuse to see: Anything that opens NK society any amount is good for us and bad for the NK government.

I agree and that's why I just didn't see it unfolding that way. I could be wrong but I don't think the NK government was gonna do anything that would have allowed that and then we have already let it get too far. It's a tough one and I don't know the answer to what should have been done. We would most likely be in this position no matter what we did in my mind.

I can appreciate both yours and SeaG's take on it though and I would have a better response earlier if I had a clear understanding of what you were saying. I misunderstood your take.

[hank scorpio]

U.S. tracking N. Korea ship with possible weapons, official says

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military is tracking a North Korean ship believed to be carrying illicit weapons or technology, a senior U.S. official said Thursday.

The ship, the Kang Nam, is a North Korean-flagged ship, according to two senior U.S. officials, and is currently in the Pacific.

While the United States does not know what specifically is on the ship, the Kang Nam is a "repeat offender," known for having carried "proliferation materials," one senior defense official said.

Without speaking to any details of the Kang Nam report, Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Thursday that the United States would not forcibly board a North Korean ship but, in accordance with the recent United Nations resolution, would request permission to search the ship or press any port the ship docks in to inspect it for illegal materials.

Mullen told reporters at a news conference that neither the United States nor any other navy would board a ship without permission.

"The United Nations Security Council resolution does not include an option for opposed-boarding or noncompliant boarding with respect to that," he said. "We expect compliance."

North Korea has warned that any effort to stop one of its ships would be considered an act of war.

"To further isolate itself, to further noncomply with international guidance and regulations in the long run puts them in a more difficult position," Mullen said.

[grizzaholic]

Well here we go.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Does anybody know anything about the missile pointed at Hawaii? I heard a blip about that this morning that said it couldn't reach Hawaii but they have pointed it there or something like that?

[Col Hogan]

Gotta love it.....everyone here, and in Washington, want to put North Korea into their own particular box...when North Korea is the exception to every rule in the book...

"Once the internet gets there, they'll open up"...it won't happen because that would threaten the NK military...North Korean military leaders have seen what happens (China, Soviet Union, Albania, etc) when they allow even a little openness...they will soon lose power...and they will not allow that to happen...a decade from now, North Korea will be as isolated from the rest of the world as it is today...

OR

The North Koreans threaten us with military action...we back down....WRONG, the North Koream military is all that little dictator has that works...he'll puff out his chest and make threats, but in the end he won't use his military because he fears losing it...

BUT

We don't want a war...we make them offers of "stuff"....they accept and back down...Who's the winner in this one other than the little dictator...


Don't make the mistake of trying to predict North Korea...because it won't fit into any nice, neat, conk or donk box...Republicans have screwed up, and Democrats have screwed up trying to deal with this wacko...

The one thing Kim fears is us ignoring him...because if we ignore him, he becomes just another poor, isolated, Third World country with nothing to offer the world...if we pay attention to his ranting and raving, he benefits (read that his Military benefits, and that's all that matters in NK)...

[danefan]

Does anybody know anything about the missile pointed at Hawaii? I heard a blip about that this morning that said it couldn't reach Hawaii but they have pointed it there or something like that?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-Day.html

Japan warns that North Korea may fire missile at U.S. on Independence Day

North Korea may launch a long-range ballistic missile towards Hawaii on American Independence Day, according to Japanese intelligence officials.

The missile, believed to be a Taepodong-2 with a range of up to 4,000 miles, would be launched in early July from the Dongchang-ni site on the north-western coast of the secretive country.
Intelligence analysts do not believe the device would be capable of hitting Hawaii's main islands, which are 4,500 miles from North Korea.

Details of the launch came from the Japan's best-selling newspaper, Yomiuri Shimbun.
Both Japanese intelligence and U.S. reconnaissance satellites have collated information pointing to the launch, according to the report.

[travelinman67]

Normalize relations with North Korea and we'll have them eating out of our hand in a decade. Once the internet is established there, it is only a matter of time until they are ours.

I believe that is the dumbest statement I've ever seen you write.

Normalizing relations with a country which ALREADY has normalized relations with China and Russia (look it up, DumbyDonk...they've been trading food, technology, fuel and NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ology.html ; http://www.cfr.org/publication/11097/ch ... nship.html )for decades.

WHY?

Putin and Jintao are doing their damndest to return the superpowers to the days of the Cold War, employing the favors of tin-plated dictators (Jung Il, Chavez, Ahmahnutjob) to destabilize Western foreign policy.

However, Jung Il's fatal mistake may be his decision to reactivate NK's nuclear weapons program...an act that has united the superpowers to pass the UN sanctions.

Did Bush fumble by refusing to normalize relations with countries like NK, Iran, and Somalia...all three of which have maintained state-sponsored foreign terrorist groups?

Hardly.

Normalizing relations with NK so long as Jung Il remains as the decision maker, is a recipe for escalating the conflict by turning a "blind eye" to Jung Il's tyrannical designs (as with Ahmahnutjob and Chavez).

[grizzaholic]

Does anybody know anything about the missile pointed at Hawaii? I heard a blip about that this morning that said it couldn't reach Hawaii but they have pointed it there or something like that?

They are going to launch a rocket on the 4th of July, like they did (last year)?

[houndawg]

Normalize relations with North Korea and we'll have them eating out of our hand in a decade. Once the internet is established there, it is only a matter of time until they are ours.

I believe that is the dumbest statement I've ever seen you write.

Normalizing relations with a country which ALREADY has normalized relations with China and Russia (look it up, DumbyDonk...they've been trading food, technology, fuel and NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ology.html ; http://www.cfr.org/publication/11097/ch ... nship.html )for decades.

WHY?

Putin and Jintao are doing their damndest to return the superpowers to the days of the Cold War, employing the favors of tin-plated dictators (Jung Il, Chavez, Ahmahnutjob) to destabilize Western foreign policy.

However, Jung Il's fatal mistake may be his decision to reactivate NK's nuclear weapons program...an act that has united the superpowers to pass the UN sanctions.

Did Bush fumble by refusing to normalize relations with countries like NK, Iran, and Somalia...all three of which have maintained state-sponsored foreign terrorist groups?

Hardly.

Normalizing relations with NK so long as Jung Il remains as the decision maker, is a recipe for escalating the conflict by turning a "blind eye" to Jung Il's tyrannical designs (as with Ahmahnutjob and Chavez).

Coming from one who has been as consistently wrong and out of touch as you have been lately that is high praise indeed!

What a pinhead. The reactivation of the nuclear program was a direct result of Bush abrogating the framework agreement. And that nuclear technology? From Pakistan (via A.Q. Khan's network) with love, and don't sweat ol' Dead or Alive's BS, he's just woofin'.

[CID1990]

I believe that is the dumbest statement I've ever seen you write.

Normalizing relations with a country which ALREADY has normalized relations with China and Russia (look it up, DumbyDonk...they've been trading food, technology, fuel and NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ology.html ; http://www.cfr.org/publication/11097/ch ... nship.html )for decades.

WHY?

Putin and Jintao are doing their damndest to return the superpowers to the days of the Cold War, employing the favors of tin-plated dictators (Jung Il, Chavez, Ahmahnutjob) to destabilize Western foreign policy.

However, Jung Il's fatal mistake may be his decision to reactivate NK's nuclear weapons program...an act that has united the superpowers to pass the UN sanctions.

Did Bush fumble by refusing to normalize relations with countries like NK, Iran, and Somalia...all three of which have maintained state-sponsored foreign terrorist groups?

Hardly.

Normalizing relations with NK so long as Jung Il remains as the decision maker, is a recipe for escalating the conflict by turning a "blind eye" to Jung Il's tyrannical designs (as with Ahmahnutjob and Chavez).

Coming from one who has been as consistently wrong and out of touch as you have been lately that is high praise indeed!

What a pinhead. The reactivation of the nuclear program was a direct result of Bush abrogating the framework agreement. And that nuclear technology? From Pakistan (via A.Q. Khan's network) with love, and don't sweat ol' Dead or Alive's BS, he's just woofin'.

Actually, both the PRC and our own State Dept have agreed that the recent activity by the DPRK is a result of being ignored by the new administration. Nobody really knows how to deal with Kim because he does not act rationally and is rarely predictable (except in hindsight). Regardless of what happens now, we can blame Bush, blame Clinton, heck we can blame Truman, but the bottom line with NK is that the PRC holds the keys and nothing we do is going to amount to a hill of beans as long as China treats Kim like the petulant son.

[SeattleGriz]

Gotta love it.....everyone here, and in Washington, want to put North Korea into their own particular box...when North Korea is the exception to every rule in the book...

"Once the internet gets there, they'll open up"...it won't happen because that would threaten the NK military...North Korean military leaders have seen what happens (China, Soviet Union, Albania, etc) when they allow even a little openness...they will soon lose power...and they will not allow that to happen...a decade from now, North Korea will be as isolated from the rest of the world as it is today...

OR

The North Koreans threaten us with military action...we back down....WRONG, the North Koream military is all that little dictator has that works...he'll puff out his chest and make threats, but in the end he won't use his military because he fears losing it...

BUT

We don't want a war...we make them offers of "stuff"....they accept and back down...Who's the winner in this one other than the little dictator...


Don't make the mistake of trying to predict North Korea...because it won't fit into any nice, neat, conk or donk box...Republicans have screwed up, and Democrats have screwed up trying to deal with this wacko...

The one thing Kim fears is us ignoring him...because if we ignore him, he becomes just another poor, isolated, Third World country with nothing to offer the world...if we pay attention to his ranting and raving, he benefits (read that his Military benefits, and that's all that matters in NK)...

C'mon Hogan! Where is the love? I said this earlier in the thread. I said he was a nutjob and no matter which approach we took, he wasn't going to cooperate.

Although HDawg (Ralph #2) has shown me the light with the wonders of the Clintons. I know now KJ Il was gleefully skipping rocks in his Koi pond and meticulously sculpting his bonsai garden because of the carrots that were presented by Bill. Maybe Hildabeast will assuage his worries with some more money and light water reactors.

And just for you BlueHen, it's all the damn libs fault.

[Col Hogan]

SG, Sorry brother....I went back and reread the thread...you hit the nail on the head first...



But sometimes you gotta restate the truth for some of these folks to get it......who am I kidding....donks don't get it.....

[Ibanez]

This is all due to his low self esteem.



I'm so Ronery / So ronery / So ronery and sadry arone / There's no one / Just me onry / Sitting on my rittle throne / I work rearry hard and make up get prans / but, nobody listens, no one understands / Seems rike no one takes me serirousry / And so, I'm ronery / A rittle ronery / Poor rittle me / There's no one I can rerate to / Feewr rike a biwd in a cage / It's kinda siwry / but, not reawry / because, it's fiwring my body with rage / I'm the smartest, most crever, most physicawry fit / but, nobody erse seems to rearrize it / When I can the worrd maybe they'rr notice me / And untiwr then, I'wr be ronery / Yeaaaaah, a rittle ronery / Poor rittle me...

[houndawg]

Does anybody know anything about the missile pointed at Hawaii? I heard a blip about that this morning that said it couldn't reach Hawaii but they have pointed it there or something like that?

They could launch in 45 minutes, our next warning might come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

[houndawg]

Coming from one who has been as consistently wrong and out of touch as you have been lately that is high praise indeed!

What a pinhead. The reactivation of the nuclear program was a direct result of Bush abrogating the framework agreement. And that nuclear technology? From Pakistan (via A.Q. Khan's network) with love, and don't sweat ol' Dead or Alive's BS, he's just woofin'.

Actually, both the PRC and our own State Dept have agreed that the recent activity by the DPRK is a result of being ignored by the new administration. Nobody really knows how to deal with Kim because he does not act rationally and is rarely predictable (except in hindsight). Regardless of what happens now, we can blame Bush, blame Clinton, heck we can blame Truman, but the bottom line with NK is that the PRC holds the keys and nothing we do is going to amount to a hill of beans as long as China treats Kim like the petulant son.

Who, other than the PRC and Kim, benefits from continuing 60 years of isolation?


Air drop 1,000,000 laptops with solar chargers.

[CID1990]

Threatening to airdrop YOU over there would be cheaper and possibly more effective.

[Ibanez]

As long as China and Russia tolerate Kim, we can't make an effective move for any sort of stability or normailzed relations.

[houndawg]

Threatening to airdrop YOU over there would be cheaper and possibly more effective.

I will bring the truth and set them free.

[SeattleGriz]

Does anybody know anything about the missile pointed at Hawaii? I heard a blip about that this morning that said it couldn't reach Hawaii but they have pointed it there or something like that?

They could launch in 45 minutes, our next warning might come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

Ralph, I realize these clips are in regards to Iraq, but what were you rambling on about accuracy? Seems Bush had a HELL of alot more cred than Gore/Clinton

[AZGrizFan]

Does anybody know anything about the missile pointed at Hawaii? I heard a blip about that this morning that said it couldn't reach Hawaii but they have pointed it there or something like that?

They could launch in 45 minutes, our next warning might come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

You vastly underestimate the ability of our submarine force, my friend. I will GUARANTEE you that North Korea would be a smouldering hole before their "Hawaii missile" even hit the ground.

[houndawg]

They could launch in 45 minutes, our next warning might come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

Ralph, I realize these clips are in regards to Iraq, but what were you rambling on about accuracy? Seems Bush had a HELL of alot more cred than Gore/Clinton

Ralph? Did we hit a nerve with somebody?

What happened to the rough but good-natured ribbing you were sloppin' Capn's knob about in the other thread? I gotta tell you, my feelings are deeply hurt by you getting so ugly and personal. T'man.

[SeattleGriz]

Ralph, I realize these clips are in regards to Iraq, but what were you rambling on about accuracy? Seems Bush had a HELL of alot more cred than Gore/Clinton

Ralph? Did we hit a nerve with somebody?

What happened to the rough but good-natured ribbing you were sloppin' Capn's knob about in the other thread? I gotta tell you, my feelings are deeply hurt by you getting so ugly and personal. T'man.

You lie, but well played on the Ralphism about your feelings being hurt. Plus the Capn is an experienced lover, that is why he gets treated as such.

And no nerve struck here, still just bad at my 'tone' when posting on this board. It sounds funny and easily discernible in my head, but loses most of that when typing it out.

If you aren't kidding about the feelings, I do apologize.

[houndawg]

Ralph? Did we hit a nerve with somebody?

What happened to the rough but good-natured ribbing you were sloppin' Capn's knob about in the other thread? I gotta tell you, my feelings are deeply hurt by you getting so ugly and personal. T'man.

You lie, but well played on the Ralphism about your feelings being hurt. Plus the Capn is an experienced lover, that is why he gets treated as such.

And no nerve struck here, still just bad at my 'tone' when posting on this board. It sounds funny and easily discernible in my head, but loses most of that when typing it out.

If you aren't kidding about the feelings, I do apologize.

Tone is in the ear of the beholder here. The tone I hear in my head here is that of a bunch of friends arguing and drinking beer down at the neighborhood tavern.

[grizzaholic]

You lie, but well played on the Ralphism about your feelings being hurt. Plus the Capn is an experienced lover, that is why he gets treated as such.

And no nerve struck here, still just bad at my 'tone' when posting on this board. It sounds funny and easily discernible in my head, but loses most of that when typing it out.

If you aren't kidding about the feelings, I do apologize.

Tone is in the ear of the beholder here. The tone I hear in my head here is that of a bunch of friends arguing and drinking beer down at the neighborhood tavern.

It is amazing that that very thing is the way almost every discussion that happens here sounds like.