VW Busted!

[CAA Flagship]

SHAZAAAM!

I don't think Shaq is Japanese.

[bandl]

I don't think Shaq is Japanese.

I used to live with black people. Does that mean I'm black?

Shit yeah!!!

[CAA Flagship]

I used to live with black people. Does that mean I'm black?

Shit yeah!!!

No. It means you like big D's.

[Grizalltheway]

I don't think Shaq is Japanese.

I know they all look the same to you, racist, but those are clearly Samoans.

[93henfan]

...Samoans.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RazVGbu_Wk[/youtube]

[93henfan]

Oh, VW is so fucked.

The reported US figure for the emissions defeat device was 500,000 cars here.

VW just admitted late today that the number of cars with the defeat device worldwide is...

11 MILLION

http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwc ... oc_US.html

[93henfan]

So this isn't as simple as VW just recalls the vehicles and reflashes their ECUs to remove the emissions testing defeat coding. Once they apply 100% emissions reduction to these vehicles, the fuel economy is going to drop significantly.

For instance, my 2012 Passat "clean" diesel got me 43 mpg average. There's a very real chance, if I still owned it, that the correction flash could knock me down into the low to mid 30s. There would also be an increased number of what are called Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) regenerations where the car basically burns all accumulated soot in the DPF. This will cause increased wear and tear on the emissions system of the car.

So, current owners of TDIs are now looking at seriously reduced resale value and significantly lower fuel economy if they choose to accept the recall. If they try to skirt the recall, you can bet that the CARB states, at the very least, may refuse to extend registration/tagging on the vehicles until they can prove that the recall was done.

Then you have the eco-conscious types, many of whom reluctantly traded out of their Prius when they were convinced that diesel was no longer dirty, who are hurt to their fragile little gluten-free vegan cores. It's the ultimate betrayal. They went against every instinct in their brain and got burnt, Jack!

VW has billions of dollars of class action suits and penalties and lost sales coming their way worldwide. Yeeouch.

[kalm]

So this isn't as simple as VW just recalls the vehicles and reflashes their ECUs to remove the emissions testing defeat coding. Once they apply 100% emissions reduction to these vehicles, the fuel economy is going to drop significantly.

For instance, my 2012 Passat "clean" diesel got me 43 mpg average. There's a very real chance, if I still owned it, that the correction flash could knock me down into the low to mid 30s. There would also be an increased number of what are called Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) regenerations where the car basically burns all accumulated soot in the DPF. This will cause increased wear and tear on the emissions system of the car.

So, current owners of TDIs are now looking at seriously reduced resale value and significantly lower fuel economy if they choose to accept the recall. If they try to skirt the recall, you can bet that the CARB states, at the very least, may refuse to extend registration/tagging on the vehicles until they can prove that the recall was done.

Then you have the eco-conscious types, many of whom reluctantly traded out of their Prius when they were convinced that diesel was no longer dirty, who are hurt to their fragile little gluten-free vegan cores. It's the ultimate betrayal. They went against every instinct in their brain and got burnt, Jack!

VW has billions of dollars of class action suits and penalties and lost sales coming their way worldwide. Yeeouch.

Hey! Leave me the fuck out of this! I drive a truck!

[93henfan]

Hey! Leave me the fuck out of this! I drive a truck!

I heard you mix business with pleasure.

[kalm]

Hey! Leave me the fuck out of this! I drive a truck!

I heard you mix business with pleasure.

I have a friend who has one of those. His wife commutes in it.

[bandl]

I heard you mix business with pleasure.

I have a friend who has one of those. His wife commutes in it.

From the kitchen to the garden?

[CAA Flagship]

I have a friend who has one of those. His wife commutes in it.

From the kitchen to the garden?

From the kitchen to the outhouse.

[93henfan]

One of the first of likely many activist retaliations against all things TDI and diesel and VW:

Craigslist has blocked the IP of a guy from TDI Club who had a nationwide search for TDI For Sale listings on CL. I used his search site myself to find my second TDI.

http://foobert.com/carhunt.html

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=64

[∞∞∞]

Audi announcing that 2.1 million cars of theirs are affected worldwide, although they didn't know about it because the parts were approved/supplied by their parent company...Volkswagen Group.

SEAT/Skoda are in the same situation...announcing that 1 million of their cars are affected.

So far, it's looking like ~15 million cars under the VW Group will be affected around the world.

[93henfan]

Audi announcing that 2.1 million cars of theirs are affected worldwide, although they didn't know about it because the parts were approved/supplied by their parent company...Volkswagen Group.

SEAT/Skoda are in the same situation...announcing that 1 million of their cars are affected.

So far, it's looking like ~15 million cars under the VW Group will be affected around the world.

Even with all the settlements, this is going to leave a mark. BP and GM will look like wrist slaps in comparison.

They have a lot of 2015 and 2016 stock on boats and trains and dealer lots that will be going to the crusher as well.

[Ibanez]

Audi announcing that 2.1 million cars of theirs are affected worldwide, although they didn't know about it because the parts were approved/supplied by their parent company...Volkswagen Group.

SEAT/Skoda are in the same situation...announcing that 1 million of their cars are affected.

So far, it's looking like ~15 million cars under the VW Group will be affected around the world.

Even with all the settlements, this is going to leave a mark. BP and GM will look like wrist slaps in comparison.

They have a lot of 2015 and 2016 stock on boats and trains and dealer lots that will be going to the crusher as well.

I was thinking that today when I watched a train full of BMWs and Audis being offloaded.

[CAA Flagship]

And the Congressional grilling of Germans begins.

[93henfan]

And the Congressional grilling of Germans begins.

I heard that whatever they call the gestapo now raided VW HQ in Germany today as well.

But back to the U.S. Congress, the head of VWoA testified that this was the result of action by engineers so smart that they outsmarted VW corporate. I doubt that'll fly in court.

[CAA Flagship]

And the Congressional grilling of Germans begins.

I heard that whatever they call the gestapo now raided VW HQ in Germany today as well.

But back to the U.S. Congress, the head of VWoA testified that this was the result of action by engineers so smart that they outsmarted VW corporate. I doubt that'll fly in court.

I think the trick here is to make sure that they admit that it was deliberate, but limit the number of people involved as much as possible. This means that the low man on the totem pole is screwed.

[BDKJMU]

Now its Fiat-Chrysler:
"EPA accuses Fiat Chrysler of excess diesel emissions

NEW YORK/DETROIT (Reuters) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Thursday accused Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV of illegally using hidden software that allowed significant excess diesel emissions, the result of a probe that stemmed from regulators' investigation of rival Volkswagen AG.

The EPA action affects 104,000 U.S. trucks and SUVs sold since 2014, about one-sixth the number of vehicles than in the Volkswagen case. The maximum fine is about $4.6 billion.

The EPA and California Air Resources Board told Fiat Chrysler it believes its undeclared auxiliary emissions control software allowed vehicles to generate excess pollution in violation of the law.

Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne denied the company was cheating and has been in talks with EPA and made significant disclosures of documents.

"We have done nothing that is illegal," he said. "There was never any intent of creating conditions that were designed to defeat the testing process. This is absolute nonsense."..........."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-ep ... nance.html

[93henfan]

Now its Fiat-Chrysler:
"EPA accuses Fiat Chrysler of excess diesel emissions

NEW YORK/DETROIT (Reuters) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Thursday accused Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV of illegally using hidden software that allowed significant excess diesel emissions, the result of a probe that stemmed from regulators' investigation of rival Volkswagen AG.

The EPA action affects 104,000 U.S. trucks and SUVs sold since 2014, about one-sixth the number of vehicles than in the Volkswagen case. The maximum fine is about $4.6 billion.

The EPA and California Air Resources Board told Fiat Chrysler it believes its undeclared auxiliary emissions control software allowed vehicles to generate excess pollution in violation of the law.

Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne denied the company was cheating and has been in talks with EPA and made significant disclosures of documents.

"We have done nothing that is illegal," he said. "There was never any intent of creating conditions that were designed to defeat the testing process. This is absolute nonsense."..........."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-ep ... nance.html

There is quite a bit of difference between this and the VW scandal. Fiat Chrysler is contending that they used the wrong calibration during testing. It may have been just that: a mistake. Doubtful, but there's plausible deniability.

VW, on the other hand, wrote a very ingenious defeat code into its ECU that allowed the ECU to detect when it was in testing mode. When it was in testing mode, it lowered emissions to allowable levels. When it wasn't in test mode, it ramped up emissions, which allowed much higher miles per gallon. The way the EPA found out about it was that CARB paid TDI owners in California to surrender their cars for testing and they tested emission on the cars in actual street operation rather than by bench testing.

VW is now up to something like $15-20 billion in restitution, buybacks, and fines. Fiat Chrysler will probably only be impacted by the cost of retesting (not insignificant) and possibly having some of their diesel releases pushed back one model year. This is, of course, assuming that they pass the emissions test with the correct calibration. I know people are salivating over the diesel Wrangler that was due to come out, and pushing that back a year will cost them some scratch, but nothing like VW's poison pill.

[CID1990]

Now its Fiat-Chrysler:
"EPA accuses Fiat Chrysler of excess diesel emissions

NEW YORK/DETROIT (Reuters) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Thursday accused Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV of illegally using hidden software that allowed significant excess diesel emissions, the result of a probe that stemmed from regulators' investigation of rival Volkswagen AG.

The EPA action affects 104,000 U.S. trucks and SUVs sold since 2014, about one-sixth the number of vehicles than in the Volkswagen case. The maximum fine is about $4.6 billion.

The EPA and California Air Resources Board told Fiat Chrysler it believes its undeclared auxiliary emissions control software allowed vehicles to generate excess pollution in violation of the law.

Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne denied the company was cheating and has been in talks with EPA and made significant disclosures of documents.

"We have done nothing that is illegal," he said. "There was never any intent of creating conditions that were designed to defeat the testing process. This is absolute nonsense."..........."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-ep ... nance.html

There is quite a bit of difference between this and the VW scandal. Fiat Chrysler is contending that they used the wrong calibration during testing. It may have been just that: a mistake. Doubtful, but there's plausible deniability.

VW, on the other hand, wrote a very ingenious defeat code into its ECU that allowed the ECU to detect when it was in testing mode. When it was in testing mode, it lowered emissions to allowable levels. When it wasn't in test mode, it ramped up emissions, which allowed much higher miles per gallon. The way the EPA found out about it was that CARB paid TDI owners in California to surrender their cars for testing and they tested emission on the cars in actual street operation rather than by bench testing.

VW is now up to something like $15-20 billion in restitution, buybacks, and fines. Fiat Chrysler will probably only be impacted by the cost of retesting (not insignificant) and possibly having some of their diesel releases pushed back one model year. This is, of course, assuming that they pass the emissions test with the correct calibration. I know people are salivating over the diesel Wrangler that was due to come out, and pushing that back a year will cost them some scratch, but nothing like VW's poison pill.

STOP TH PRESSES

I didn't understand this mechanism before and I still don't

But are you saying that when the car has higher emissions it gets better gas mileage?

And when it is being monitored it drops emissions in return for poorer gas mileage?


Is anybody else smelling poorly thought out regulations.. resulting in unintended consequences?

[Chizzang]

STOP TH PRESSES

I didn't understand this mechanism before and I still don't

But are you saying that when the car has higher emissions it gets better gas mileage?

And when it is being monitored it drops emissions in return for poorer gas mileage?


Is anybody else smelling poorly thought out regulations.. resulting in unintended consequences?

Well thank goodness we'll be getting rid of all those nasty departments soon...

[93henfan]

You never want to go before a judge in Detroit when you're an employee of a foreign automaker. Longer sentence and higher fine (ten times as much on the fine) than prosecutors recommended. Youch:

An engineer who helped develop the engines at the center of the Volkswagen diesel emissions cheating scandal was sentenced today in federal court in Detroit to 40 months in prison, becoming the first person in the scandal facing a prison term....

...Liang, a German national, pleaded guilty in September in U.S. District Court in Detroit to conspiracy. In addition to his prison sentence, Liang was ordered to serve two years of supervised release and pay a $200,000 fine. He is to be deported after his sentence.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2 ... 598637001/

[93henfan]

I also wanted to add that I'm freaking loving my scandal TDI (with the EPA-mandate software fix of course). Bought it in May after it was released from purgatory, already put 10K miles on it, and getting 54.9 mpg so far. $8,000 off, 0% financing, and 162K mile warranty.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/go ... tdi/618927