Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[CID1990]

Where's the "collusion with Russia to affect US elections", Jelly?

Still patiently waiting for that

Who are you quoting there? I searched... but, only came back with your posts.

As far as coordination with Russia, this is a whole lot of smoke...

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

We'll see if they find enough to make it indictable. But, your contention is that Mueller isn't even investigating it.

He isn't, Jelly

He's going after Trump and Co's financial dealings- there's plenty of meat on that bone - and I have said as much better in this very thread

But please do continue to try to move the goalposts on the thrust of this thread- the original contention in ALL of this is that Trump and his campaign coordinated with the Russians over their interference in the elections. Mueller isn't working that angle, and the clues are there for those who choose to see them

[Ivytalk]

Trump may be getting cocky enough, due to his progress with the Donks in Congress, that he'll roll the dice and fire Mueller. I'd say the odds of that event occurring are increasing.

[Skjellyfetti]

He's going after Trump and Co's financial dealings- there's plenty of meat on that bone - and I have said as much better in this very thread

I've said there's more meat on that bone as well many times in this thread. Because it's true. Doesn't mean there aren't other meaty bones to gnaw on.

But please do continue to try to move the goalposts on the thrust of this thread- the original contention in ALL of this is that Trump and his campaign coordinated with the Russians over their interference in the elections. Mueller isn't working that angle, and the clues are there for those who choose to see them

What do you think Mueller's interest in Russian Facebook ad buys is? My hunch is that he's investigating Trump's microtargeting campaign working with Russian bots (see: Parscale, Kushner, Cambridge Analytica). I don't see what other federal crimes could be violated there... but, you tell me.

Why do you think he's investigating the Jr./Manafort/Kushner meeting? What other possible crimes were committed there?

[Jjoey52]

Fishing trip


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[Skjellyfetti]

At least you've expanded your vocabulary past "nothingburger"

[CID1990]

He's going after Trump and Co's financial dealings- there's plenty of meat on that bone - and I have said as much better in this very thread

I've said there's more meat on that bone as well many times in this thread. Because it's true. Doesn't mean there aren't other meaty bones to gnaw on.

But please do continue to try to move the goalposts on the thrust of this thread- the original contention in ALL of this is that Trump and his campaign coordinated with the Russians over their interference in the elections. Mueller isn't working that angle, and the clues are there for those who choose to see them

What do you think Mueller's interest in Russian Facebook ad buys is? My hunch is that he's investigating Trump's microtargeting campaign working with Russian bots (see: Parscale, Kushner, Cambridge Analytica). I don't see what other federal crimes could be violated there... but, you tell me.

Why do you think he's investigating the Jr./Manafort/Kushner meeting? What other possible crimes were committed there?

You keep asking me the same questions over and over, Jelly

Here's what would land somebody in jail:

Facilitating any hacks that may have occurred

Giving advice about the best times or methods to release information

Paying representatives of a foreign government, either in fact or in the promise of a policy quid pro quo.

Conspiracy to do any of the above.

Nothing else will fly.

So let me ask YOU a question about the meeting- (aside from how you sure seem to be tangentially defending the collusion angle)

If there was collusion between the campaign and the Russians, why would there be a meeting to discuss doing it after it had supposedly already been done? The meeting, in the minds of investigators, has more to do with Manafort's financial dealings and contacts. They are going to chase down ALL contacts between him and the Russians during this investigation. AND- to a degree, it IS a fishing expedition. That's why I have said before numerous times that I would find it hard to believe if the Mueller crew didn't find anything at all, because this is the direction all special prosecutors take. The allegation of collusion is the door that gets them inside, and then they find ALL the dirty underwear.

Clitz has been exactly right about this.... Trump and others have financial dealings that if made public, would land them in serious hot water. THAT'S why Trump wants this to end.

[Jjoey52]

CID, question, if there was any financial dealings discovered before Trump took office, what would that entail?


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[Skjellyfetti]

Facilitating any hacks that may have occurred

Giving advice about the best times or methods to release information

Paying representatives of a foreign government, either in fact or in the promise of a policy quid pro quo.

Conspiracy to do any of the above.

Ok. So, it sounds like he's investigating coordination.

In my book (and Rosenstein's mandate for Mueller) any if that is coordination.

If there was collusion between the campaign and the Russians, why would there be a meeting to discuss doing it after it had supposedly already been done?

What do you mean it had already been done?

June 3, 2016:
Goldstone sends Don Jr. email about the Russian government having information to share that would be helpful to his father.

Don Jr. and Emin Agalarov have 3 phone calls (dates unclear - sometime between the 3rd and the 9th).

June 9, 2016
Trump tower meeting with Don Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Veselnitskaya, Goldstone, Akhmetshin, Samochornov, and Kaveladze.

June 15, 2016
DNC files are first leaked

It wasn't "done" when the meeting occurred. Particularly in regards to your second point of illegality above: timing the release. The leaks started less than a week after the meeting. Could be coincidence... but... the timing is ochen' interesno. Worthy of investigation at the least.

And, the Podesta leaks were still months away (that Roger Stone seemed to telegraph ahead of time, as well as his WikiLeaks backchannel).

This is just looking at the DNC leaks and Podesta leaks. The microtargeting also has clearly piqued Mueller's interest. Could be all innocent coincidences... but, looking more and more unlikely.

CID, question, if there was any financial dealings discovered before Trump took office, what would that entail?

Google Russian real estate laundering.

Restrict it to pre-2016 to filter out any potential anti-Trump fake news.

[CID1990]

Facilitating any hacks that may have occurred

Giving advice about the best times or methods to release information

Paying representatives of a foreign government, either in fact or in the promise of a policy quid pro quo.

Conspiracy to do any of the above.

Ok. So, it sounds like he's investigating coordination.

In my book (and Rosenstein's mandate for Mueller) any if that is coordination.

If there was collusion between the campaign and the Russians, why would there be a meeting to discuss doing it after it had supposedly already been done?

What do you mean it had already been done?

June 3, 2016:
Goldstone sends Don Jr. email about the Russian government having information to share that would be helpful to his father.

Don Jr. and Emin Agalarov have 3 phone calls (dates unclear - sometime between the 3rd and the 9th).

June 9, 2016
Trump tower meeting with Don Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Veselnitskaya, Goldstone, Akhmetshin, Samochornov, and Kaveladze.

June 15, 2016
DNC files are first leaked

It wasn't "done" when the meeting occurred. Particularly in regards to your second point of illegality above: timing the release. The leaks started less than a week after the meeting. Could be coincidence... but... the timing is ochen' interesno. Worthy of investigation at the least.

And, the Podesta leaks were still months away (that Roger Stone seemed to telegraph ahead of time, as well as his WikiLeaks backchannel).

This is just looking at the DNC leaks and Podesta leaks. The microtargeting also has clearly piqued Mueller's interest. Could be all innocent coincidences... but, looking more and more unlikely.

CID, question, if there was any financial dealings discovered before Trump took office, what would that entail?

Google Russian real estate laundering.

Restrict it to pre-2016 to filter out any potential anti-Trump fake news.

Well once again it looks like you've got it all figured out

I've learned you are going to read whatever you want into what I say - peculiar for such a disinterested person who is just following along for the entertainment value of it all

So I'll tell you what- I'm just going to wait until all of this is over and then I'll do the "told you so"... and then you can do the goalpost shuffle


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[kalm]

CID, question, if there was any financial dealings discovered before Trump took office, what would that entail?


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He was having trouble borrowing from western banks and turned to the Russians. They supported his candidacy and met with his campaign.

Fishing trip.

[Skjellyfetti]

Trump's lawyers John Dowd and Ty Cobb loudly discussing Russian investigation at DC steakhouse with NYT reporter sitting next to them taking notes.

President Trump’s legal team is wrestling with how much to cooperate with the special counsel looking into Russian election interference, an internal debate that led to an angry confrontation last week between two White House lawyers and that could shape the course of the investigation.

At the heart of the clash is an issue that has challenged multiple presidents during high-stakes Washington investigations: how to handle the demands of investigators without surrendering the institutional prerogatives of the office of the presidency. Similar conflicts during the Watergate and Monica S. Lewinsky scandals resulted in court rulings that limited a president’s right to confidentiality.

The debate in Mr. Trump’s West Wing has pitted Donald F. McGahn II, the White House counsel, against Ty Cobb, a lawyer brought in to manage the response to the investigation. Mr. Cobb has argued for turning over as many of the emails and documents requested by the special counsel as possible in hopes of quickly ending the investigation — or at least its focus on Mr. Trump.

Mr. McGahn supports cooperation, but has expressed worry about setting a precedent that would weaken the White House long after Mr. Trump’s tenure is over. He is described as particularly concerned about whether the president will invoke executive or attorney-client privilege to limit how forthcoming Mr. McGahn could be if he himself is interviewed by the special counsel as requested.

The friction escalated in recent days after Mr. Cobb was overheard by a reporter for The New York Times discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a popular Washington steakhouse. Mr. Cobb was heard talking about a White House lawyer he deemed “a McGahn spy” and saying Mr. McGahn had “a couple documents locked in a safe” that he seemed to suggest he wanted access to. He also mentioned a colleague whom he blamed for “some of these earlier leaks,” and who he said “tried to push Jared out,” meaning Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, who has been a previous source of dispute for the legal team.

After The Times contacted the White House about the situation, Mr. McGahn privately erupted at Mr. Cobb, according to people informed about the confrontation who asked not to be named describing internal matters. John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, sharply reprimanded Mr. Cobb for his indiscretion, the people said.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/u ... 0&referer=

[SeattleGriz]

This sounds like a setup of the NYT reporter.

[Skjellyfetti]

Or perhaps a way for Trump's lawyers to "inadvertently" leak information to the press on McGahn to force his hand.

But, Occam's razor says they're just idiots with big mouths like their client.

[∞∞∞]

This sounds like a setup of the NYT reporter.

DC is a leaky town.

It's not a big city, people have high-profile jobs, they all like to talk (aka. brag) about they're work, and there's a limited amount of restaurants within walking distance of Capitol Hill/White House (and an even more limited amount where politicos are known to hang). It's not uncommon to find staffers/lobbyists/politicians that "de-stress" after work, mostly by complaining...especially after having a few drinks.

Of course, these after-hour affairs aren't new to the media.

[89Hen]

This sounds like a setup of the NYT reporter.

DC is a leaky town.

It's not a big city, people have high-profile jobs, they all like to talk (aka. brag) about they're work, and there's a limited amount of restaurants within walking distance of Capitol Hill/White House (and an even more limited amount where politicos are known to hang). It's not uncommon to find staffers/lobbyists/politicians that "de-stress" after work, mostly by complaining...especially after having a few drinks.

Of course, these after-hour affairs aren't new to the media.

*their

[∞∞∞]

DC is a leaky town.

It's not a big city, people have high-profile jobs, they all like to talk (aka. brag) about they're work, and there's a limited amount of restaurants within walking distance of Capitol Hill/White House (and an even more limited amount where politicos are known to hang). It's not uncommon to find staffers/lobbyists/politicians that "de-stress" after work, mostly by complaining...especially after having a few drinks.

Of course, these after-hour affairs aren't new to the media.

*their

Thanks. Originally had it as "...what they're working on..."

[BDKJMU]

This sounds like a setup of the NYT reporter.

DC is a leaky town.

It's not a big city, people have high-profile jobs, they all like to talk (aka. brag) about they're work, and there's a limited amount of restaurants within walking distance of Capitol Hill/White House (and an even more limited amount where politicos are known to hang). It's not uncommon to find staffers/lobbyists/politicians that "de-stress" after work, mostly by complaining...especially after having a few drinks.

Of course, these after-hour affairs aren't new to the media.

Close to 700k isn't a big city?

[houndawg]

Fishing trip


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POTUS launders money for the Russian mob.

The campaign collusion stuff is a diversion.

[Skjellyfetti]

Mueller ain't fuckin' around. Takes his fishing trips more seriously than JSO.

With a Picked Lock and a Threatened Indictment, Mueller’s Inquiry Sets a Tone

Paul J. Manafort was in bed early one morning in July when federal agents bearing a search warrant picked the lock on his front door and raided his Virginia home. They took binders stuffed with documents and copied his computer files, looking for evidence that Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, set up secret offshore bank accounts. They even photographed the expensive suits in his closet.

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, then followed the house search with a warning: His prosecutors told Mr. Manafort they planned to indict him, said two people close to the investigation.

The moves against Mr. Manafort are just a glimpse of the aggressive tactics used by Mr. Mueller and his team of prosecutors in the four months since taking over the Justice Department’s investigation into Russia’s attempts to disrupt last year’s election, according to lawyers, witnesses and American officials who have described the approach. Dispensing with the plodding pace typical of many white-collar investigations, Mr. Mueller’s team has used what some describe as shock-and-awe tactics to intimidate witnesses and potential targets of the inquiry.

Mr. Mueller has obtained a flurry of subpoenas to compel witnesses to testify before a grand jury, lawyers and witnesses say, sometimes before his prosecutors have taken the customary first step of interviewing them. One witness was called before the grand jury less than a month after his name surfaced in news accounts. The special counsel even took the unusual step of obtaining a subpoena for one of Mr. Manafort’s former lawyers, claiming an exception to the rule that shields attorney-client discussions from scrutiny.

“They are setting a tone. It’s important early on to strike terror in the hearts of people in Washington, or else you will be rolled,” said Solomon L. Wisenberg, who was deputy independent counsel in the investigation that led to the impeachment trial of President Bill Clinton in 1999. “You want people saying to themselves, ‘Man, I had better tell these guys the truth.’”

A spokesman for Mr. Mueller declined to comment. Lawyers and a spokesman for Mr. Manafort also declined to comment.

Few people can upend Washington like a federal prosecutor rooting around a presidential administration, and Mr. Mueller, a former F.B.I. director, is known to dislike meandering investigations that languish for years. At the same time, he appears to be taking a broad view of his mandate: examining not just the Russian disruption campaign and whether any of Mr. Trump’s associates assisted in the effort, but also any financial entanglements with Russians going back several years. He is also investigating whether Mr. Trump tried to obstruct justice when he fired James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director.

But associates of both Mr. Manafort and Mr. Flynn have received more peremptory treatment. Instead of invitations to the prosecutor’s office, they have been presented with grand jury subpoenas, forcing them to either testify or take the Fifth Amendment and raise suspicions that they had something to hide. At least three witnesses have recently been subpoenaed to testify about Mr. Manafort: Jason Maloni, a spokesman who appeared before the grand jury for more than two hours on Friday, and the heads of two consulting firms — Mercury Public Affairs and the Podesta Group — who worked with Mr. Manafort on behalf of Viktor F. Yanukovych, the pro-Russia former president of Ukraine.

Mr. Mueller’s team also took the unusual step of issuing a subpoena to Melissa Laurenza, a specialist in lobbying law who formerly represented Mr. Manafort, according to people familiar with the subpoena. Conversations between lawyers and their clients are normally considered bound by attorney-client privilege, but there are exceptions when lawyers prepare public documents that are filed on behalf of their client.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/us/p ... .html?_r=0

[Vidav]

Nothing banh mi.

[Skjellyfetti]

Lordy, there are tapes!


US investigators wiretapped Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/ ... index.html

[GannonFan]

Lordy, there are tapes!


US investigators wiretapped Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/ ... index.html

And to the Trumpkins out there this will be vindication that Trump's campaign, or people in it, were being wiretapped (the whole "did they wiretap Trump Tower" thing again) by an Obama-led Justice Department. Unless Trump is implicated in anything, this is going to be a story of Flynn and Manafort and maybe others going down for talking with foreigners, probably short of collusion, and that's it. Even if they try to bring the obstruction of justice thing forward for Comey's firing that's already been argued in public and it won't seem new and likely won't win a conviction. And the Republicans in Congress won't even censure Trump because they'd be afraid that he would just deal with the Democrats like he's been doing.

[kalm]

Lordy, there are tapes!


US investigators wiretapped Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/ ... index.html

And to the Trumpkins out there this will be vindication that Trump's campaign, or people in it, were being wiretapped (the whole "did they wiretap Trump Tower" thing again) by an Obama-led Justice Department. Unless Trump is implicated in anything, this is going to be a story of Flynn and Manafort and maybe others going down for talking with foreigners, probably short of collusion, and that's it. Even if they try to bring the obstruction of justice thing forward for Comey's firing that's already been argued in public and it won't seem new and likely won't win a conviction. And the Republicans in Congress won't even censure Trump because they'd be afraid that he would just deal with the Democrats like he's been doing.

That's a decent sized "unless", assuming there's nothing in the tapes related to Trump.

[GannonFan]

And to the Trumpkins out there this will be vindication that Trump's campaign, or people in it, were being wiretapped (the whole "did they wiretap Trump Tower" thing again) by an Obama-led Justice Department. Unless Trump is implicated in anything, this is going to be a story of Flynn and Manafort and maybe others going down for talking with foreigners, probably short of collusion, and that's it. Even if they try to bring the obstruction of justice thing forward for Comey's firing that's already been argued in public and it won't seem new and likely won't win a conviction. And the Republicans in Congress won't even censure Trump because they'd be afraid that he would just deal with the Democrats like he's been doing.

That's a decent sized "unless", assuming there's nothing in the tapes related to Trump.

They'll need him (Trump) on tape saying to tell the Russians to do something or him saying yes to a request from the Russians. If they already have that they would've done something with it already. It won't be collusion in the election, unless by minor players, without it. The financial stuff is another matter, and may have nothing to do with any Russians, although if they can connect it it will look good on Twitter - everybody hates the Russians. They're evil.

[Skjellyfetti]

Trump has the worst lawyers.

Cohen was supposed to testify in a closed door session today. He broke the agreement that made it closed to the public.

Senate Intelligence Committee interview with Trump lawyer abruptly canceled
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 285e1a1768

Now it will be a public session.