Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[houndawg]

Ok. So, it sounds like he's investigating coordination.

In my book (and Rosenstein's mandate for Mueller) any if that is coordination.





What do you mean it had already been done?

June 3, 2016:
Goldstone sends Don Jr. email about the Russian government having information to share that would be helpful to his father.

Don Jr. and Emin Agalarov have 3 phone calls (dates unclear - sometime between the 3rd and the 9th).

June 9, 2016
Trump tower meeting with Don Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Veselnitskaya, Goldstone, Akhmetshin, Samochornov, and Kaveladze.

June 15, 2016
DNC files are first leaked

It wasn't "done" when the meeting occurred. Particularly in regards to your second point of illegality above: timing the release. The leaks started less than a week after the meeting. Could be coincidence... but... the timing is ochen' interesno. Worthy of investigation at the least.

And, the Podesta leaks were still months away (that Roger Stone seemed to telegraph ahead of time, as well as his WikiLeaks backchannel).

This is just looking at the DNC leaks and Podesta leaks. The microtargeting also has clearly piqued Mueller's interest. Could be all innocent coincidences... but, looking more and more unlikely.





Google Russian real estate laundering.

Restrict it to pre-2016 to filter out any potential anti-Trump fake news.

Well once again it looks like you've got it all figured out

I've learned you are going to read whatever you want into what I say - peculiar for such a disinterested person who is just following along for the entertainment value of it all

So I'll tell you what- I'm just going to wait until all of this is over and then I'll do the "told you so"... and then you can do the goalpost shuffle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Masterful diversion after being exposed!

[BDKJMU]

Lordy, there are tapes!


US investigators wiretapped Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/ ... index.html

So Trump was right after all about there being wiretapping going on...

[kalm]

Lordy, there are tapes!


US investigators wiretapped Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/ ... index.html

So Trump was right after all about there being wiretapping going on...

Shouldn't hire criminals to manage your presidential campaign.

[Skjellyfetti]

So Trump was right after all about there being wiretapping going on...

Well, we've known that Carter Page had a FISA warrant on him for months. Doesn't mean Obama had Trump tower wiretapped.

Trump's own Justice Department couldn't find evidence to back up his claims.

The Justice Department said in a court filing Friday evening that it has no evidence to support President Donald Trump's assertion in March that his predecessor, Barack Obama, wiretapped the phones in Trump Tower before last year's election.

"Both FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets," the department's motion reads. NSD refers to the department's national security division.

The motion came in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by a group pushing for government transparency, American Oversight.

On March 4, Trump tweeted: "Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"

"How low has President Obama gone to tap my phones during the very sacred election process," Trump also tweeted. "This is Nixon/Watergate."

Then-FBI Director James Comey told Congress in March there was no evidence to support the contention that Trump Tower had been wiretapped. "We have no information to support those tweets," he said at a House intelligence committee hearing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/02/politics/ ... index.html

And, as kalm said: Carter Page and Manafort are both full of sketchy foreign connections.

Both had FISA warrants on them well before having anything to do with Trump's campaign (Paige in 2013 and Manafort in 2014). Both had them renewed in 2016.

[GannonFan]

So Trump was right after all about there being wiretapping going on...

Well, we've known that Carter Page had a FISA warrant on him for months. Doesn't mean Obama had Trump tower wiretapped.

Trump's own Justice Department couldn't find evidence to back up his claims.

The Justice Department said in a court filing Friday evening that it has no evidence to support President Donald Trump's assertion in March that his predecessor, Barack Obama, wiretapped the phones in Trump Tower before last year's election.

"Both FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets," the department's motion reads. NSD refers to the department's national security division.

The motion came in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by a group pushing for government transparency, American Oversight.

On March 4, Trump tweeted: "Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"

"How low has President Obama gone to tap my phones during the very sacred election process," Trump also tweeted. "This is Nixon/Watergate."

Then-FBI Director James Comey told Congress in March there was no evidence to support the contention that Trump Tower had been wiretapped. "We have no information to support those tweets," he said at a House intelligence committee hearing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/02/politics/ ... index.html

And, as kalm said: Carter Page and Manafort are both full of sketchy foreign connections.

Both had FISA warrants on them well before having anything to do with Trump's campaign (Paige in 2013 and Manafort in 2014). Both had them renewed in 2016.

You're missing the point - sure, the details Trump said (i.e. Trump Tower itself) being bugged were incorrect, but Trumpkins don't really care about a detail like that and will instead focus on the bugging that was done. For people and voters (because let's remember, people did vote in enough states for Trump to win the Presidency) the allure of Trump is his antiestablishment persona, and it's hard to get more antiestablishment than being bugged by the then current administration while running a Presidential campaign to unseat that administration's handpicked successor.

Mueller is going to need to hit a home run when he comes out with indictments, and by a home run I mean finding that Trump himself colluded with Russians and/or Trump himself has significant illegal financial ties to the Russian government (and not just people reportedly associated with the Russian government - from past reporting, it seems everyone can be connected to the Russian government if we try hard enough to believe they are). Anything less than that and it won't be enough to fire up the Trump opposition and it will even more enflame the ire of the people who voted for Trump in the first place, and an investigation that was supposed to feed the Resistance and impeach Trump will only help him win re-election.

[JohnStOnge]

I heard Sean Hannity yesterday trying to make the case that what's going on now validates what Trump said. It doesn't.

Here's what Trump tweeted:

found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!”

The FBI surveilling Paul Manafort isn't "Obama" having Trump surveilled.

I thought that myself while listening to Hannity's either thick headed or intellectually dishonest discussion yesterday. But here is another assessment of it:

http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-slamme ... tap-668117

[Skjellyfetti]

It was just something Trump threw out to change to conversation. Same with the unmasking controversy.
Flynn's NSC guys were poring over intercepts and unmasking requests trying to find something to paint it as a political hit.

[houndawg]

So Trump was right after all about there being wiretapping going on...

Well, we've known that Carter Page had a FISA warrant on him for months. Doesn't mean Obama had Trump tower wiretapped.

Trump's own Justice Department couldn't find evidence to back up his claims.

The Justice Department said in a court filing Friday evening that it has no evidence to support President Donald Trump's assertion in March that his predecessor, Barack Obama, wiretapped the phones in Trump Tower before last year's election.

"Both FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets," the department's motion reads. NSD refers to the department's national security division.

The motion came in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by a group pushing for government transparency, American Oversight.

On March 4, Trump tweeted: "Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"

"How low has President Obama gone to tap my phones during the very sacred election process," Trump also tweeted. "This is Nixon/Watergate."

Then-FBI Director James Comey told Congress in March there was no evidence to support the contention that Trump Tower had been wiretapped. "We have no information to support those tweets," he said at a House intelligence committee hearing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/02/politics/ ... index.html

And, as kalm said: Carter Page and Manafort are both full of sketchy foreign connections.

Both had FISA warrants on them well before having anything to do with Trump's campaign (Paige in 2013 and Manafort in 2014). Both had them renewed in 2016.

Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas....


Bet Manafort and Page wish they'd heeded that old adage...

[GannonFan]

I heard Sean Hannity yesterday trying to make the case that what's going on now validates what Trump said. It doesn't.

Here's what Trump tweeted:

found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!”

The FBI surveilling Paul Manafort isn't "Obama" having Trump surveilled.

I thought that myself while listening to Hannity's either thick headed or intellectually dishonest discussion yesterday. But here is another assessment of it:

http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-slamme ... tap-668117

You're overthinking this - Trumpkins don't overthink things. They hear that Trump said he was wiretapped, they hear that Mannafort and Flynn were wiretapped for more than a year, and during the election, and they agree with Trump that he was wiretapped. Trying to take pains to point out that Trump said "Trump Tower" is getting into a detail that, while relevant, isn't going to sway his supporters (otherwise known as voters).

Like I said, Mueller is going to have to really hit one out of the park on this one if his investigation is going to have an impact. He needs to find that Trump directed or knew of actual collusion or that, by firing Comey, he actively thought or said that by firing him that would eliminate the investigation (for the obstruction charge). Anything less, no matter how much it may paint him in a bad light, is not going to stick.

[HI54UNI]

I heard Sean Hannity yesterday trying to make the case that what's going on now validates what Trump said. It doesn't.

Here's what Trump tweeted:



The FBI surveilling Paul Manafort isn't "Obama" having Trump surveilled.

I thought that myself while listening to Hannity's either thick headed or intellectually dishonest discussion yesterday. But here is another assessment of it:

http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-slamme ... tap-668117

You're overthinking this - Trumpkins don't overthink things. They hear that Trump said he was wiretapped, they hear that Mannafort and Flynn were wiretapped for more than a year, and during the election, and they agree with Trump that he was wiretapped. Trying to take pains to point out that Trump said "Trump Tower" is getting into a detail that, while relevant, isn't going to sway his supporters (otherwise known as voters).

Like I said, Mueller is going to have to really hit one out of the park on this one if his investigation is going to have an impact. He needs to find that Trump directed or knew of actual collusion or that, by firing Comey, he actively thought or said that by firing him that would eliminate the investigation (for the obstruction charge). Anything less, no matter how much it may paint him in a bad light, is not going to stick.

Is it true that Manafort had an apartment in Trump Tower? If so that gives more credence to the "tapped Trump Tower" narrative, even if it wasn't Trump himself.

[BDKJMU]

I heard Sean Hannity yesterday trying to make the case that what's going on now validates what Trump said. It doesn't.

Here's what Trump tweeted:



The FBI surveilling Paul Manafort isn't "Obama" having Trump surveilled.

I thought that myself while listening to Hannity's either thick headed or intellectually dishonest discussion yesterday. But here is another assessment of it:

http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-slamme ... tap-668117

You're overthinking this - Trumpkins don't overthink things. They hear that Trump said he was wiretapped, they hear that Mannafort and Flynn were wiretapped for more than a year, and during the election, and they agree with Trump that he was wiretapped. Trying to take pains to point out that Trump said "Trump Tower" is getting into a detail that, while relevant, isn't going to sway his supporters (otherwise known as voters).

Like I said, Mueller is going to have to really hit one out of the park on this one if his investigation is going to have an impact. He needs to find that Trump directed or knew of actual collusion or that, by firing Comey, he actively thought or said that by firing him that would eliminate the investigation (for the obstruction charge). Anything less, no matter how much it may paint him in a bad light, is not going to stick.

Manafort owned an apartment in Trump Tower, where he regularly met with Trump.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/09 ... claim.html

[BDKJMU]

You're overthinking this - Trumpkins don't overthink things. They hear that Trump said he was wiretapped, they hear that Mannafort and Flynn were wiretapped for more than a year, and during the election, and they agree with Trump that he was wiretapped. Trying to take pains to point out that Trump said "Trump Tower" is getting into a detail that, while relevant, isn't going to sway his supporters (otherwise known as voters).

Like I said, Mueller is going to have to really hit one out of the park on this one if his investigation is going to have an impact. He needs to find that Trump directed or knew of actual collusion or that, by firing Comey, he actively thought or said that by firing him that would eliminate the investigation (for the obstruction charge). Anything less, no matter how much it may paint him in a bad light, is not going to stick.

Is it true that Manafort had an apartment in Trump Tower? If so that gives more credence to the "tapped Trump Tower" narrative, even if it wasn't Trump himself.

Yes, Manafort owned an apartment in Trump Tower..

[Skjellyfetti]

Yeah, Manafort did have apartment in Trump Tower. He also probably wasn't the first one to live at Trump Tower and get a wiretap order.

Vadim Trincher - Russian mobster convicted of running $100,000,000 money laundering scheme. Lived on the (entire) floor below Trump
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/ ... wer-378095

David Bogatin - Russian mobster convicted of daisy chain bootlegging scheme. Owned 5 condos in Trump tower which were used to "launder money, to shelter and hide assets."
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/30/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Vyacheslav Ivankov, Semion Mogilevich's enforcer) was given a Trump Tower penthouse after Mogilevich paid off a judge to get him out of prison in Russia
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/29/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Eduard Nektalov - indicted in money laundering case and then assasinated in NY's diamond district. One of Trump Tower's first tenants
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/21/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Anatoly Golubchik - indicted on laundering for Russian mob out of Trump Tower
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/r ... -1.1973997

I'm sure I'm missing some. So, yeah... Trump Tower has probably been bugged pretty consistently since it opened its doors.

[SDHornet]

I heard Sean Hannity yesterday trying to make the case that what's going on now validates what Trump said. It doesn't.

Here's what Trump tweeted:



The FBI surveilling Paul Manafort isn't "Obama" having Trump surveilled.

I thought that myself while listening to Hannity's either thick headed or intellectually dishonest discussion yesterday. But here is another assessment of it:

http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-slamme ... tap-668117

You're overthinking this - Trumpkins don't overthink things. They hear that Trump said he was wiretapped, they hear that Mannafort and Flynn were wiretapped for more than a year, and during the election, and they agree with Trump that he was wiretapped. Trying to take pains to point out that Trump said "Trump Tower" is getting into a detail that, while relevant, isn't going to sway his supporters (otherwise known as voters).

Like I said, Mueller is going to have to really hit one out of the park on this one if his investigation is going to have an impact. He needs to find that Trump directed or knew of actual collusion or that, by firing Comey, he actively thought or said that by firing him that would eliminate the investigation (for the obstruction charge). Anything less, no matter how much it may paint him in a bad light, is not going to stick.

This. Gannon nailed it.

I doubt the tapes have anything of value against Trump. Comey wouldn't have sat on them if they did, and damaging evidence on Trump would have been known by now...so basically unless there is a smoking gun on Trump and Russian collusion the this is still just a nothingburger...and Mueller is just on a fishing trip.

[Skjellyfetti]

damaging evidence on Trump would have been known by now...

He just started subpoenaing and hauling people before the Grand Jury.

[Vidav]

damaging evidence on Trump would have been known by now...

He just started subpoenaing and hauling people before the Grand Jury.

Nothing bao.

[kalm]

Yeah, Manafort did have apartment in Trump Tower. He also probably wasn't the first one to live at Trump Tower and get a wiretap order.

Vadim Trincher - Russian mobster convicted of running $100,000,000 money laundering scheme. Lived on the (entire) floor below Trump
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/ ... wer-378095

David Bogatin - Russian mobster convicted of daisy chain bootlegging scheme. Owned 5 condos in Trump tower which were used to "launder money, to shelter and hide assets."
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/30/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Vyacheslav Ivankov, Semion Mogilevich's enforcer) was given a Trump Tower penthouse after Mogilevich paid off a judge to get him out of prison in Russia
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/29/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Eduard Nektalov - indicted in money laundering case and then assasinated in NY's diamond district. One of Trump Tower's first tenants
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/21/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Anatoly Golubchik - indicted on laundering for Russian mob out of Trump Tower
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/r ... -1.1973997

I'm sure I'm missing some. So, yeah... Trump Tower has probably been bugged pretty consistently since it opened its doors.

Nothing borscht.

[Vidav]

Yeah, Manafort did have apartment in Trump Tower. He also probably wasn't the first one to live at Trump Tower and get a wiretap order.

Vadim Trincher - Russian mobster convicted of running $100,000,000 money laundering scheme. Lived on the (entire) floor below Trump
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/ ... wer-378095

David Bogatin - Russian mobster convicted of daisy chain bootlegging scheme. Owned 5 condos in Trump tower which were used to "launder money, to shelter and hide assets."
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/30/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Vyacheslav Ivankov, Semion Mogilevich's enforcer) was given a Trump Tower penthouse after Mogilevich paid off a judge to get him out of prison in Russia
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/29/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Eduard Nektalov - indicted in money laundering case and then assasinated in NY's diamond district. One of Trump Tower's first tenants
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/21/nyreg ... ml?mcubz=1

Anatoly Golubchik - indicted on laundering for Russian mob out of Trump Tower
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/r ... -1.1973997

I'm sure I'm missing some. So, yeah... Trump Tower has probably been bugged pretty consistently since it opened its doors.

Nothing borscht.

[Jjoey52]

Waste of money.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SDHornet]

damaging evidence on Trump would have been known by now...

He just started subpoenaing and hauling people before the Grand Jury.

So you think if there was evidence on the tapes spoken directly by Trump indicating collusion that we wouldn't have heard about it by now?

[Skjellyfetti]

He just started subpoenaing and hauling people before the Grand Jury.

So you think if there was evidence on the tapes spoken directly by Trump indicating collusion that we wouldn't have heard about it by now?

Well, we just found out about the Don Jr. emails about a year into the investigation. We just found out about Manafort's wiretap this week - well over a year into the investigation.

I'm not saying there is evidence on tape implicating Trump directly. I'm saying that there are still many more stories to come out on this.

And, Trump will be most under threat by FinCEN, financial records, document requests by the WH, and most especially - testimony in front of the Grand Jury. The testimony can link him to any crimes as a coconspirator. Nixon kept his hands clean of the Watergate burglary, but was named an unindicted coconspirator.

Check back in a year.

[Chizzang]

Why have an opinion either way..?
Just wait and see and then decide based on something more like credible information

Nothing Burger vs. Election Collusion

Those are both just wishful thinking based on a desired predetermined outcome

[SDHornet]

So you think if there was evidence on the tapes spoken directly by Trump indicating collusion that we wouldn't have heard about it by now?

Well, we just found out about the Don Jr. emails about a year into the investigation. We just found out about Manafort's wiretap this week - well over a year into the investigation.

I'm not saying there is evidence on tape implicating Trump directly. I'm saying that there are still many more stories to come out on this.

And, Trump will be most under threat by FinCEN, financial records, document requests by the WH, and most especially - testimony in front of the Grand Jury. The testimony can link him to any crimes as a coconspirator. Nixon kept his hands clean of the Watergate burglary, but was named an unindicted coconspirator.

Check back in a year.

So your thinking is that the FBI sat on collusion wiretap evidence this whole time? After all they went through to provide input to get hilldog off the hook but sit on evidence against Trump and not use it against him pre election day? Mkay.

[JohnStOnge]

Manafort owned an apartment in Trump Tower, where he regularly met with Trump.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/09 ... claim.html

I quoted Trump's tweet that said Obama had him wiretapped. The FBI surveilling Paul Manafort since 2014 and continuing through the Trump campaign is not Obama having Trump wiretapped. Learning about it does not in any way validate what Trump tweeted whether the FBI surveilled Manafort while he was in Trump Tower or not. Also doesn't validate what Trump tweeted if Manafort was talking to Trump sometimes while the FBI was surveilling him.

Here, again, is what Trump tweeted:

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!

and

How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!

There is nothing about the recent report on the FBI investigating Manafort to suggest that either of those statements are true. As far as Trump Tower goes: We don't know that Manafort was surveiled while he was in Trump Tower. But even if he was, the FBI investigating him while he happened to be in Trump Tower is not Obama targeting Trump.

If Trump WAS basing those tweets on finding out that the FBI was investigating Manafort he was being misleading. In other words: He was lying. Again.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW I don't think Trump colluded with the Russians. Did some of his staff do it? Maybe.

But, to me, that's not the important thing. The important thing is that a foreign power did make an effort to influence our election in favor of a candidate. And I think it's safe to say they didn't do it because they thought having Trump be President was the best thing for the United States.

The fact that the Russians wanted Trump to win SHOULD tell any rational person something. But, unfortunately, Trump supporters lost touch with their critical thinking skills a long time ago. Trying to bring them to their senses is like trying to rescue your child from a cult. They're not dealing with reality and they're not ready to have someone tell them that.

Also I do think it's possible that Hillary would've won if the Russians had not been involved. First of all, it was a very close election and a scenario in which taking away the possible Democratic vote suppression associated with all that stuff associated with hacking the Democrats could have made a difference is plausible. Secondly, as I've said before, all that stuff about how "we have no evidence that vote tallies were changed" is in a context where there really hasn't been an effort to determine if vote tallies were changed. There have also been allegations that systems were hacked to do things like create confusion in targeted districts leading to long lines and such.

The idea is that there may have been an effort to "muck up the works" and thereby suppress the vote in certain areas rather than to physically change vote tallies.

But, again: The bottom line is that it's VERY clear that the Russians wanted Trump to win. And I don't think they wanted what would be best for the United States.