Seems like we need a new Intelligent Design thread.

[Chizzang]

So God then..?
Right, Okay got it

Well how about that - look at the time - problem solved

Next

Does there come a point when you've basically exhausted any physical explanation for some particular thing?

If I'm playing chess and my opponent has a pair of bishops on the same color I'm going to assume that person made an illegal move somewhere or that the pieces weren't set up correctly. I can't name exactly how it was done, but I know it was done.

I do wonder why it is no one has been able to create a living and replicating cell from inorganic matter. Is there some chemical property of the most common inorganic substances that we by now don't know?

Yes,
God

You win - The End

[houndawg]

I thought this was an Intelligent Design thread? Why don't you tell us why intelligent design is the best **scientific** explanation?

The reason intelligent design in a good choice is from empirical observation. We have too many instances where the "evolution of the gaps" is applied. If something looks like it was made through intelligence, why not investigate?

Intelligence shows up in bioinformatics. Studying the flow and creation of information in DNA. If we can understand what happens to the flow and/or increase in information for the creation of new species or novelties, that hopefully should lead to understanding how and why it happened.

I am perfectly fine if this happens to be a natural process we simply don't understand yet.

Meh. Even if evolution is wrong that proves nothing about "intelligent design" one way or the other. Your assuming those are your only choices and you have no reason to make that assumption.

[SeattleGriz]

The reason intelligent design in a good choice is from empirical observation. We have too many instances where the "evolution of the gaps" is applied. If something looks like it was made through intelligence, why not investigate?

Intelligence shows up in bioinformatics. Studying the flow and creation of information in DNA. If we can understand what happens to the flow and/or increase in information for the creation of new species or novelties, that hopefully should lead to understanding how and why it happened.

I am perfectly fine if this happens to be a natural process we simply don't understand yet.

Meh. Even if evolution is wrong that proves nothing about "intelligent design" one way or the other. Your assuming those are your only choices and you have no reason to make that assumption.

I didn't say that. In fact I am fine with Evolution + Intelligent Design. Simply saying we have all these complexities we can't explain with just mutation and natural selection, so how about expanding? I'm not alone on this either, for the Evolution field is talking this right now. I'm more mainstream than those who think only mutation and natural selection got us here.

[houndawg]

Meh. Even if evolution is wrong that proves nothing about "intelligent design" one way or the other. Your assuming those are your only choices and you have no reason to make that assumption.

I didn't say that. In fact I am fine with Evolution + Intelligent Design. Simply saying we have all these complexities we can't explain with just mutation and natural selection, so how about expanding? I'm not alone on this either, for the Evolution field is talking this right now. I'm more mainstream than those who think only mutation and natural selection got us here.

You're still assuming that there is no third option we don't yet know about.

[SeattleGriz]

I didn't say that. In fact I am fine with Evolution + Intelligent Design. Simply saying we have all these complexities we can't explain with just mutation and natural selection, so how about expanding? I'm not alone on this either, for the Evolution field is talking this right now. I'm more mainstream than those who think only mutation and natural selection got us here.

You're still assuming that there is no third option we don't yet know about.

I have also said it could easily be some natural function we simply don't know about.

[Chizzang]

Christians are so desperate to claim they know what God does or what God did
and desperate to claim they know what God wants and doesn't want
that Intelligent design has just become another way of trying to take control of the God story

That's the saddest part of this whole emotionally desperate attempt to insert themselves
into the science conversation

Judaism had this figured out a long time ago
In Judaism claiming you know what God wants is officially "Taking the Lords name in vain"
a very serious sin - even uttering the lords name was considered a sin

Christians have no problem with this / in fact it's really whats wrong with Christianity
They've successfully modified it to now mean cursing - which is hilarious

Imagine what Christianity would look like today if they held the same standard
This is why you see no Jewish televangelist - because its a sin against God

[SeattleGriz]

Christians are so desperate to claim they know what God does or what God did
and desperate to claim they know what God wants and doesn't want
that Intelligent design has just become another way of trying to take control of the God story

That's the saddest part of this whole emotionally desperate attempt to insert themselves
into the science conversation

Judaism had this figured out a long time ago
In Judaism claiming you know what God wants is officially "Taking the Lords name in vain"
a very serious sin - even uttering the lords name was considered a sin

Christians have no problem with this / in fact it's really whats wrong with Christianity
They've successfully modified it to now mean cursing - which is hilarious

Imagine what Christianity would look like today if they held the same standard
This is why you see no Jewish televangelist - because its a sin against God

You've got a point on the "knowing what God wants" part, but outside of that, it isn't relevant to this topic. Keep trying though. Hopefully it will pull in Joltin Joe and D1B for some real fun.

[Chizzang]

Christians are so desperate to claim they know what God does or what God did
and desperate to claim they know what God wants and doesn't want
that Intelligent design has just become another way of trying to take control of the God story

That's the saddest part of this whole emotionally desperate attempt to insert themselves
into the science conversation

Judaism had this figured out a long time ago
In Judaism claiming you know what God wants is officially "Taking the Lords name in vain"
a very serious sin - even uttering the lords name was considered a sin

Christians have no problem with this / in fact it's really whats wrong with Christianity
They've successfully modified it to now mean cursing - which is hilarious

Imagine what Christianity would look like today if they held the same standard
This is why you see no Jewish televangelist - because its a sin against God

You've got a point on the "knowing what God wants" part, but outside of that, it isn't relevant to this topic. Keep trying though. Hopefully it will pull in Joltin Joe and D1B for some real fun.

It's exactly what this thread is about...
It's about you (and every other ID nut)
desperately pretending to know something and stake a claim for God

[SeattleGriz]

You've got a point on the "knowing what God wants" part, but outside of that, it isn't relevant to this topic. Keep trying though. Hopefully it will pull in Joltin Joe and D1B for some real fun.

It's exactly what this thread is about...
It's about you (and every other ID nut)
desperately pretending to know something and stake a claim for God

So weak...as usual.

Keep trying though! A for effort. When you can't talk facts, make something up!

https://www.quantamagazine.org/scientis ... -20161122/

As a result, Laland and a like-minded group of biologists argue that the Modern Synthesis needs an overhaul. It has to be recast as a new vision of evolution, which they’ve dubbed the Extended Evolutionary Synthesis. Other biologists have pushed back hard, saying there is little evidence that such a paradigm shift is warranted

Yeah! Those crazy Modern Synthesis biologists are NUTS!!

[Chizzang]

It's exactly what this thread is about...
It's about you (and every other ID nut)
desperately pretending to know something and stake a claim for God

So weak...as usual.

Keep trying though! A for effort. When you can't talk facts, make something up!

https://www.quantamagazine.org/scientis ... -20161122/

As a result, Laland and a like-minded group of biologists argue that the Modern Synthesis needs an overhaul. It has to be recast as a new vision of evolution, which they’ve dubbed the Extended Evolutionary Synthesis. Other biologists have pushed back hard, saying there is little evidence that such a paradigm shift is warranted

Yeah! Those crazy Modern Synthesis biologists are NUTS!!

What exactly am I "making up"..?

[SeattleGriz]

So weak...as usual.

Keep trying though! A for effort. When you can't talk facts, make something up!

https://www.quantamagazine.org/scientis ... -20161122/



Yeah! Those crazy Modern Synthesis biologists are NUTS!!

What exactly am I "making up"..?

Once again, nice try to turn this conversation into something you can cut and paste from a Sam Harris statement...or book...or whatever. Your whole game is made up, but I'm speaking more about your usual false equivalences you use to try and interject something into a conversation that doesn't belong.

You really have lost your trolling touch.

[Pwns]

Does there come a point when you've basically exhausted any physical explanation for some particular thing?

If I'm playing chess and my opponent has a pair of bishops on the same color I'm going to assume that person made an illegal move somewhere or that the pieces weren't set up correctly. I can't name exactly how it was done, but I know it was done.

I do wonder why it is no one has been able to create a living and replicating cell from inorganic matter. Is there some chemical property of the most common inorganic substances that we by now don't know?

Yes,
God

You win - The End

Chizz, you've said before that you find the whole God subject fascinating.

Where in your mind do you possibly "find God"? Are you one of those liberal "spiritual" types that finds God in biking on a nature trail with the girlfriend or watching a live birth?

I don't see why these types of ways of "finding god" to be any better than those of us who just aren't convinced physicalism/materialism are sufficient to bring about what is.

[Silenoz]

It is science. Just because you dislike it doesn't make it dogma.

Oh contraire Mon frere.

I am a total science dork.

Still hitting up those naturopaths?

[Chizzang]

Yes,
God

You win - The End

Chizz, you've said before that you find the whole God subject fascinating.

Where in your mind do you possibly "find God"? Are you one of those liberal "spiritual" types that finds God in biking on a nature trail with the girlfriend or watching a live birth?

I don't see why these types of ways of "finding god" to be any better than those of us who just aren't convinced physicalism/materialism are sufficient to bring about what is.

Pwns.. Good sir,
You have my absolute respect and admiration around here (sincerely)
and people are free to "Find God" wherever god shows up I guess

But firstly I'd check for "motivation"
and trying to insert GOD inside evolution and the scientific method is motivated by something else entirely

1000 years ago the books of the Bible were taken quite literally by every Christian
The Bible was the literal word of god (The end) Period / Next
500 years ago on the verge of the enlightenment actual science began to expose the Bible
The truth of our solar system was at odds with the Bible
200 years ago the scientific method again moved the peanut
Removing emotion and want from the process of discovery
50 years ago Christians stood on faith alone

Today faith isn't seen as enough by mostly Nuts and Fundamentalists
and it's making the natural resting spot of Faith alone uncomfortable for Christians
This is Christians being pushed by other Christians
Not science and Faith naturally standing astride each other with differing goals

Motivation = what Motivates the ID nut..?
Faith alone, certainly not
The desire to be taken seriously
by those who don't care what you think is a huge motivator
and to muddle science along the way as it has slowly exposed the Word of God
and turned it into fable

Looking for God elsewhere, indeed...
Because it's getting harder to find god in the books of the Bible
in fact I would argue that the Bible is just about the least likely place you'll find God
Modern man is destined to find god (elsewhere for sure)
See the quote below: in my signature

[SeattleGriz]

Oh contraire Mon frere.

I am a total science dork.

Still hitting up those naturopaths?

How's your health? Mine is pretty good, and yes, I still visit the Naturopath for the everyday stuff. Visit my traditional doctor if needed or referred.

[Silenoz]

Still hitting up those naturopaths?

How's your health? Mine is pretty good, and yes, I still visit the Naturopath for the everyday stuff. Visit my traditional doctor if needed or referred.

Perfect health. And as a bonus I don't have fake doctors trying to sell me supplements and woo at a markup

[∞∞∞]

So God then..?
Right, Okay got it

Well how about that - look at the time - problem solved

Next

Does there come a point when you've basically exhausted any physical explanation for some particular thing?

If I'm playing chess and my opponent has a pair of bishops on the same color I'm going to assume that person made an illegal move somewhere or that the pieces weren't set up correctly. I can't name exactly how it was done, but I know it was done.

I do wonder why it is no one has been able to create a living and replicating cell from inorganic matter. Is there some chemical property of the most common inorganic substances that we by now don't know?

There's been an emerging theory that life is actually not the sum of our hardware, but the sum of our software. That is, the difference between life/non-life is how organisms manage the flow of information through its systems...if that makes any sense.

Still a lot of research to be done though.

[SeattleGriz]

How's your health? Mine is pretty good, and yes, I still visit the Naturopath for the everyday stuff. Visit my traditional doctor if needed or referred.

Perfect health. And as a bonus I don't have fake doctors trying to sell me supplements and woo at a markup

Excellent on your perfect health! My point is that I lean towards a Naturopath because I am willing to put in the leg work to try and fix my health issues, as opposed to simply wanting a pill...like my mom *sigh*.

[SeattleGriz]

Does there come a point when you've basically exhausted any physical explanation for some particular thing?

If I'm playing chess and my opponent has a pair of bishops on the same color I'm going to assume that person made an illegal move somewhere or that the pieces weren't set up correctly. I can't name exactly how it was done, but I know it was done.

I do wonder why it is no one has been able to create a living and replicating cell from inorganic matter. Is there some chemical property of the most common inorganic substances that we by now don't know?

There's been an emerging theory that life is actually not the sum of our hardware, but the sum of our software. That is, the difference between life/non-life is how organisms manage the flow of information through its systems...if that makes any sense.

Still a lot of research to be done though.

Might not have said it the way you did, but I mentioned flow of data in regards to bioinformatics. Don't know if we will have the computing power to work that angle effectively for some time. Hell, I remember when I graduated back in the 90's. Thought we were going to be a LOT farther along than we are.

[SeattleGriz]

Chizz, you've said before that you find the whole God subject fascinating.

Where in your mind do you possibly "find God"? Are you one of those liberal "spiritual" types that finds God in biking on a nature trail with the girlfriend or watching a live birth?

I don't see why these types of ways of "finding god" to be any better than those of us who just aren't convinced physicalism/materialism are sufficient to bring about what is.

Pwns.. Good sir,
You have my absolute respect and admiration around here (sincerely)
and people are free to "Find God" wherever god shows up I guess

But firstly I'd check for "motivation"
and trying to insert GOD inside evolution and the scientific method is motivated by something else entirely

1000 years ago the books of the Bible were taken quite literally by every Christian
The Bible was the literal word of god (The end) Period / Next
500 years ago on the verge of the enlightenment actual science began to expose the Bible
The truth of our solar system was at odds with the Bible
200 years ago the scientific method again moved the peanut
Removing emotion and want from the process of discovery
50 years ago Christians stood on faith alone

Today faith isn't seen as enough by mostly Nuts and Fundamentalists
and it's making the natural resting spot of Faith alone uncomfortable for Christians
This is Christians being pushed by other Christians
Not science and Faith naturally standing astride each other with differing goals

Motivation = what Motivates the ID nut..?
Faith alone, certainly not
The desire to be taken seriously
by those who don't care what you think is a huge motivator
and to muddle science along the way as it has slowly exposed the Word of God
and turned it into fable

Looking for God elsewhere, indeed...
Because it's getting harder to find god in the books of the Bible
in fact I would argue that the Bible is just about the least likely place you'll find God
Modern man is destined to find god (elsewhere for sure)
See the quote below: in my signature

One simple question. Have you ever been a practicing Christian?

[Chizzang]

Pwns.. Good sir,
You have my absolute respect and admiration around here (sincerely)
and people are free to "Find God" wherever god shows up I guess

But firstly I'd check for "motivation"
and trying to insert GOD inside evolution and the scientific method is motivated by something else entirely

1000 years ago the books of the Bible were taken quite literally by every Christian
The Bible was the literal word of god (The end) Period / Next
500 years ago on the verge of the enlightenment actual science began to expose the Bible
The truth of our solar system was at odds with the Bible
200 years ago the scientific method again moved the peanut
Removing emotion and want from the process of discovery
50 years ago Christians stood on faith alone

Today faith isn't seen as enough by mostly Nuts and Fundamentalists
and it's making the natural resting spot of Faith alone uncomfortable for Christians
This is Christians being pushed by other Christians
Not science and Faith naturally standing astride each other with differing goals

Motivation = what Motivates the ID nut..?
Faith alone, certainly not
The desire to be taken seriously
by those who don't care what you think is a huge motivator
and to muddle science along the way as it has slowly exposed the Word of God
and turned it into fable

Looking for God elsewhere, indeed...
Because it's getting harder to find god in the books of the Bible
in fact I would argue that the Bible is just about the least likely place you'll find God
Modern man is destined to find god (elsewhere for sure)
See the quote below: in my signature

One simple question. Have you ever been a practicing Christian?

Of course...
Jezus man I was born in 1964
Almost 95% of Americans identified as Christian in 1965

[ASUG8]

How about a God starts things and simply sets it in motion to see what happens?

[SeattleGriz]

How about a God starts things and simply sets it in motion to see what happens?

I like it!

[Chizzang]

How about a God starts things and simply sets it in motion to see what happens?

Sure...
But set it in motion and watch it go is NOT Christianity - not even remotely
Nor is it the busy body meddlesome God Jesus preached about

So which is it
The set it in motion and stand back god
or the Biblical constantly meddling God that cured grandma's cancer and loves America..?

This is a classic Christian "Tennis without the net" scenario

[kalm]

How about a God starts things and simply sets it in motion to see what happens?

Sure...
But set it in motion and watch it go is NOT Christianity - not even remotely
Nor is it the busy body meddlesome God Jesus preached about

So which is it
The set it in motion and stand back god
or the Biblical constantly meddling God that cured grandma's cancer and loves America..?

This is a classic Christian "Tennis without the net" scenario