Jeff Flake

JohnStOnge · Post by **JohnStOnge** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:03 pm

I think a lot of people are missing the point with respect to Jeff Flake. A common take is that he was going to lose a Republican Primary challenge so he quit.

But my take is that he behaved as a man of principle. The reason he was in trouble in terms of a Republican primary is because he was willing to stand on principle instead of doing what would have put him in good stead poltiically. He COULD have done what a lot of other Republicans are doing and thrown his integrity out of the window by refusing to speak the truth about Trump. He could have sucked Trump's ass like a lot of them are doing and he would have been fine politically.

But he didn't. Instead he spoke the truth. He took the position that if speaking the truth about Trump meant he couldn't continue to be a Senator he would accept not continuing to be a Senator. It was a Profile in Courage.

And Profile's in Courage are in pretty short supply among Republican elected officials right now.

Post by **93henfan** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:12 pm

Nailed it!

houndawg · Post by **houndawg** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:02 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point with respect to Jeff Flake. A common take is that he was going to lose a Republican Primary challenge so he quit.

But my take is that he behaved as a man of principle. The reason he was in trouble in terms of a Republican primary is because he was willing to stand on principle instead of doing what would have put him in good stead poltiically. He COULD have done what a lot of other Republicans are doing and thrown his integrity out of the window by refusing to speak the truth about Trump. He could have sucked Trump's ass like a lot of them are doing and he would have been fine politically.

But he didn't. Instead he spoke the truth. He took the position that if speaking the truth about Trump meant he couldn't continue to be a Senator he would accept not continuing to be a Senator. It was a Profile in Courage.

And Profile's in Courage are in pretty short supply among Republican elected officials right now.

He wouldn't say any of that shit if he thought he could get reelected.

Jjoey52 · Post by **Jjoey52** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:07 pm

He was toast, he was also the most disliked man in the Senate. JSO never misses an opportunity to take a shot at Trump, especially now that his girl Hillary is in deep doo doo.

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JohnStOnge · Post by **JohnStOnge** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:33 pm

Again, guys, the reason why he wasn't going to get re-elected is because he stood on principle. There is a Republican base that has lost its mind in place right now. He COULD have just played along to stay in power. He didn't. Instead, he told the truth. To him, telling the truth was more important than doing whatever he needed to do to get re-elected.

He's actually the type of person we should WANT in government. But because the Republican base has lost its collective mind he won't be there.

CID1990 · Post by **CID1990** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:33 pm

houndawg wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point with respect to Jeff Flake. A common take is that he was going to lose a Republican Primary challenge so he quit.

But my take is that he behaved as a man of principle. The reason he was in trouble in terms of a Republican primary is because he was willing to stand on principle instead of doing what would have put him in good stead poltiically. He COULD have done what a lot of other Republicans are doing and thrown his integrity out of the window by refusing to speak the truth about Trump. He could have sucked Trump's ass like a lot of them are doing and he would have been fine politically.

But he didn't. Instead he spoke the truth. He took the position that if speaking the truth about Trump meant he couldn't continue to be a Senator he would accept not continuing to be a Senator. It was a Profile in Courage.

And Profile's in Courage are in pretty short supply among Republican elected officials right now.
He wouldn't say any of that **** if he thought he could get reelected.

This right here

The only people with principle in Congress are the ones who have nothing to lose

There are one or two exceptions on either side of the aisle and that’s about it. Flake isn’t one of them

BDKJMU · Post by **BDKJMU** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:33 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:Again, guys, the reason why he wasn't going to get re-elected is because he stood on principle. There is a Republican base that has lost its mind in place right now. He COULD have just played along to stay in power. He didn't. Instead, he told the truth. To him, telling the truth was more important than doing whatever he needed to do to get re-elected.

He's actually the type of person we should WANT in government. But because the Republican base has lost its collective mind he won't be there.

The reason he was going to lose his primary is because he's a fake republican. Good riddance..

Post by **Ivytalk** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:32 pm

BDKJMU wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:Again, guys, the reason why he wasn't going to get re-elected is because he stood on principle. There is a Republican base that has lost its mind in place right now. He COULD have just played along to stay in power. He didn't. Instead, he told the truth. To him, telling the truth was more important than doing whatever he needed to do to get re-elected.

He's actually the type of person we should WANT in government. But because the Republican base has lost its collective mind he won't be there.
The reason he was going to lose his primary is because he's a fake republican. Good riddance..

So, by your logic, Drumpf is a real Republican.

Jjoey52 · Post by **Jjoey52** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:12 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:Again, guys, the reason why he wasn't going to get re-elected is because he stood on principle. There is a Republican base that has lost its mind in place right now. He COULD have just played along to stay in power. He didn't. Instead, he told the truth. To him, telling the truth was more important than doing whatever he needed to do to get re-elected.

He's actually the type of person we should WANT in government. But because the Republican base has lost its collective mind he won't be there.

He is a Rino, good riddance. I suppose you would have preferred Hillary?

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BDKJMU · Post by **BDKJMU** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:35 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
BDKJMU wrote: The reason he was going to lose his primary is because he's a fake republican. Good riddance..
So, by your logic, Drumpf is a real Republican.

Red herring.

Flake is an establishment RINO. The worst kind. Good riddance.

Post by **SDHornet** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:40 am

houndawg wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point with respect to Jeff Flake. A common take is that he was going to lose a Republican Primary challenge so he quit.

But my take is that he behaved as a man of principle. The reason he was in trouble in terms of a Republican primary is because he was willing to stand on principle instead of doing what would have put him in good stead poltiically. He COULD have done what a lot of other Republicans are doing and thrown his integrity out of the window by refusing to speak the truth about Trump. He could have sucked Trump's ass like a lot of them are doing and he would have been fine politically.

But he didn't. Instead he spoke the truth. He took the position that if speaking the truth about Trump meant he couldn't continue to be a Senator he would accept not continuing to be a Senator. It was a Profile in Courage.

And Profile's in Courage are in pretty short supply among Republican elected officials right now.
He wouldn't say any of that shit if he thought he could get reelected.

This. For all the talk on morals and integrity, if Flake had any he would think he could win re-election with them. Flake is in red territory and voted in favor of a lot of the failed Obama agenda. Glad to see him go.

Jjoey52 · Post by **Jjoey52** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:02 am

His name suits him perfectly.

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JohnStOnge · Post by **JohnStOnge** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:07 pm

I can see that, as is the case with the general population, a number of you guys don't get what happened with him. He could have played along to get along in order to get re-elected. He refused to do that. The REASON he was in a positions such that he wasn't going to get re-elected is because he put principle ahead of staying in position to get re-elected.

There are a bunch of Republicans in Congress right now who know damn well that Trump is an atrocity who has no business in the job he's in right now. But most of them ARE going along to get along. Just about all of them.

JohnStOnge · Post by **JohnStOnge** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:11 pm

For all the talk on morals and integrity, if Flake had any he would think he could win re-election with them.

Why would he think that? There's obviously a serious problem with the Republican voting base right now. A majority of the people in it are in cult mode; totally divorced from reality. There is no way he could speak the truth about Trump and win a Republican primary in his State.

Chizzang · Post by **Chizzang** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:44 pm

It seems like Flake knew from the beginning that his lack of support for Trump would be his demise

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3576 ... port-trump

houndawg · Post by **houndawg** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:59 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:I can see that, as is the case with the general population, a number of you guys don't get what happened with him. He could have played along to get along in order to get re-elected. He refused to do that. The REASON he was in a positions such that he wasn't going to get re-elected is because he put principle ahead of staying in position to get re-elected.

There are a bunch of Republicans in Congress right now who know damn well that Trump is an atrocity who has no business in the job he's in right now. But most of them ARE going along to get along. Just about all of them.

So what? They're still as gutless as the day they took office on behalf pf their corporate owners.

houndawg · Post by **houndawg** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:01 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
For all the talk on morals and integrity, if Flake had any he would think he could win re-election with them.
Why would he think that? There's obviously a serious problem with the Republican voting base right now. A majority of the people in it are in cult mode; totally divorced from reality. There is no way he could speak the truth about Trump and win a Republican primary in his State.

Fer fvcks sake John they've been like that since 1980. Where the fvck have you been for the past 40 years?

JohnStOnge · Post by **JohnStOnge** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:23 pm

Chizzang wrote:It seems like Flake knew from the beginning that his lack of support for Trump would be his demise

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3576 ... port-trump

Yes. That's what I'm getting at. He had enough principle to decide that he would not go along with the madness that is afflicting the Republican Party right now in order to get re-elected. What you're seeing is a "profile in courage."

The idiots who make up the bulk of the Republican base can't see that right now. They can't see ANYTHING that resembles reality at this time. But Flake is showing a lot more character and a lot more courage than most Republican politicians are.

Post by **Ivytalk** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:46 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
Chizzang wrote:It seems like Flake knew from the beginning that his lack of support for Trump would be his demise

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3576 ... port-trump
Yes. That's what I'm getting at. He had enough principle to decide that he would not go along with the madness that is afflicting the Republican Party right now in order to get re-elected. What you're seeing is a "profile in courage."

The idiots who make up the bulk of the Republican base can't see that right now. They can't see ANYTHING that resembles reality at this time. But Flake is showing a lot more character and a lot more courage than most Republican politicians are.

More like a profile in reality.

houndawg · Post by **houndawg** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:01 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
Chizzang wrote:It seems like Flake knew from the beginning that his lack of support for Trump would be his demise

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3576 ... port-trump
Yes. That's what I'm getting at. He had enough principle to decide that he would not go along with the madness that is afflicting the Republican Party right now in order to get re-elected. What you're seeing is a "profile in courage."

The idiots who make up the bulk of the Republican base can't see that right now. They can't see ANYTHING that resembles reality at this time. But Flake is showing a lot more character and a lot more courage than most Republican politicians are.

Wrong again as usual, John.

Courage would be to run against his primary challenger and tell the truth and let the votes fall where they may. Flake turned tail and ran when the going got tough.

JSO: New political views, same old apologist...

Post by **SDHornet** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:42 am

houndawg wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Yes. That's what I'm getting at. He had enough principle to decide that he would not go along with the madness that is afflicting the Republican Party right now in order to get re-elected. What you're seeing is a "profile in courage."

The idiots who make up the bulk of the Republican base can't see that right now. They can't see ANYTHING that resembles reality at this time. But Flake is showing a lot more character and a lot more courage than most Republican politicians are.
Wrong again as usual, John.

Courage would be to run against his primary challenger and tell the truth and let the votes fall where they may. Flake turned tail and ran when the going got tough.

JSO: New political views, same old apologist...

Nailed it.

JohnStOnge · Post by **JohnStOnge** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:15 pm

houndawg wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Yes. That's what I'm getting at. He had enough principle to decide that he would not go along with the madness that is afflicting the Republican Party right now in order to get re-elected. What you're seeing is a "profile in courage."

The idiots who make up the bulk of the Republican base can't see that right now. They can't see ANYTHING that resembles reality at this time. But Flake is showing a lot more character and a lot more courage than most Republican politicians are.
Wrong again as usual, John.

Courage would be to run against his primary challenger and tell the truth and let the votes fall where they may. Flake turned tail and ran when the going got tough.

JSO: New political views, same old apologist...

I disagree. He was presented with a choice.

It's like if you have a job and your boss asks you to do something unethical. Something wrong. So you say "no." You resign.

It takes a lot more courage to do that than it does to just go along to get along and say "yes." I don't see how you'd be showing any more courage by saying "no" then letting the boss fire you instead of saying "I resign."

Right now we have literally hundreds of Republican Congressmen/Senators refusing to denounce Trump when they know denouncing Trump is the right thing to do. Flake didn't do that. He is a rare manifestation of integrity among Republican elected officials right now.

Post by **Ibanez** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:09 pm

BDKJMU wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:Again, guys, the reason why he wasn't going to get re-elected is because he stood on principle. There is a Republican base that has lost its mind in place right now. He COULD have just played along to stay in power. He didn't. Instead, he told the truth. To him, telling the truth was more important than doing whatever he needed to do to get re-elected.

He's actually the type of person we should WANT in government. But because the Republican base has lost its collective mind he won't be there.
The reason he was going to lose his primary is because he's a fake republican. Good riddance..

What? He's "fake" because he calls Trump out for the POS he is? I agree with CID - Flake wouldn't be saying anything if he weren't running for re-election.

CID1990 · Post by **CID1990** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:06 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
houndawg wrote:
Wrong again as usual, John.

Courage would be to run against his primary challenger and tell the truth and let the votes fall where they may. Flake turned tail and ran when the going got tough.

JSO: New political views, same old apologist...
I disagree. He was presented with a choice.

It's like if you have a job and your boss asks you to do something unethical. Something wrong. So you say "no." You resign.

It takes a lot more courage to do that than it does to just go along to get along and say "yes." I don't see how you'd be showing any more courage by saying "no" then letting the boss fire you instead of saying "I resign."

Right now we have literally hundreds of Republican Congressmen/Senators refusing to denounce Trump when they know denouncing Trump is the right thing to do. Flake didn't do that. He is a rare manifestation of integrity among Republican elected officials right now.

O RLY?

What exactly was he being asked to do that was unethical? Supporting Trump?

Last time I checked, there is a cabal of Repubs in the Senate who have no problem voting contra Trump's wishes

Flake is quitting because he is going to be primaried and his constituents are going to punish him because he hasn't represented their interests - your opinion of what those interests are is immaterial

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Pwns · Post by **Pwns** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:10 pm

Anyone that thinks Flake is acting on principle, I've got a hot bisexual chick who likes dungeons and dragons, college football, threesomes, and war movies that I want to set you up with.

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