What Can Gun Control Compromise Look Like?

[GannonFan]

The only ones I would want to parse and think about would be the drug abuse violations (I'm willing to look at the treatment side of drug abuse as the alternative to the criminal justice approach to it) and of course, the aforementioned felony loitering. Other than that, if you rise to the level of a felony on the other stuff I'm fine with barring you from having a weapon. Remember, these are people 18 years old, or older. If you can't stop yourself from committing fraud or from stealing someone's car or beating the crap out of someone, then weapons probably aren't right for you.

Not exactly sure what Drug abuse, Driving while Intoxicated, Disorderly conduct, Liquor laws, Drunkenness , Vandalism, Fraud, Curfew and loitering, Stolen property (buying, receiving, possession), Motor vehicle theft , or Forgery and counterfeiting have to do with forfeiting your 2nd Amendment rights.

Uh, already talked about drug abuse and loitering. As for the others, remember, we're talking about these things crossing over into felony convictions - that means a significant step-up in misbehavior from just your run of the mill misdemeanors. Anyway, there all examples of people doing significantly bad things. It's easy not to be a felon so I'm fine with these getting in the way of owning a weapon.

[SDHornet]

So basically the gist I'm getting is that we need more government to solve the "gun problem". Yeah I'll pass.

[GannonFan]

So basically the gist I'm getting is that we need more government to solve the "gun problem". Yeah I'll pass.

And your suggestion is what? Just like the anti-gun folks who shout "we need action" but don't have any suggestions. Gun violence is a problem, so what do we do about it?

[SDHornet]

So basically the gist I'm getting is that we need more government to solve the "gun problem". Yeah I'll pass.

And your suggestion is what? Just like the anti-gun folks who shout "we need action" but don't have any suggestions. Gun violence is a problem, so what do we do about it?

My reaction has already been covered by Cid:

Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU. No further discussion needed.

[GannonFan]

And your suggestion is what? Just like the anti-gun folks who shout "we need action" but don't have any suggestions. Gun violence is a problem, so what do we do about it?

My reaction has already been covered by Cid:

Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU. No further discussion needed.

That's just a dodge for not having an answer. We have rampant gun violence, even if you don't look at the mass shootings. What do we do about it?

[SDHornet]

My reaction has already been covered by Cid:

Repeal the 2nd Amendment or STFU. No further discussion needed.

That's just a dodge for not having an answer. We have rampant gun violence, even if you don't look at the mass shootings. What do we do about it?

Ignore it...like we ignore all the young blacks slaughtering themselves in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, LA, etc...



Wasted my 10k post on a stupid anti-gun thread. This place has really fallen off.

[89Hen]

Not exactly sure what Drug abuse, Driving while Intoxicated, Disorderly conduct, Liquor laws, Drunkenness , Vandalism, Fraud, Curfew and loitering, Stolen property (buying, receiving, possession), Motor vehicle theft , or Forgery and counterfeiting have to do with forfeiting your 2nd Amendment rights.

Uh, already talked about drug abuse and loitering. As for the others, remember, we're talking about these things crossing over into felony convictions - that means a significant step-up in misbehavior from just your run of the mill misdemeanors. Anyway, there all examples of people doing significantly bad things. It's easy not to be a felon so I'm fine with these getting in the way of owning a weapon.

You didn't answer the question. Do you think somebody who committed felony fraud is more likely to kill somebody with a gun? Do you have any kind of statistics that will support that claim?

[GannonFan]

Uh, already talked about drug abuse and loitering. As for the others, remember, we're talking about these things crossing over into felony convictions - that means a significant step-up in misbehavior from just your run of the mill misdemeanors. Anyway, there all examples of people doing significantly bad things. It's easy not to be a felon so I'm fine with these getting in the way of owning a weapon.

You didn't answer the question. Do you think somebody who committed felony fraud is more likely to kill somebody with a gun? Do you have any kind of statistics that will support that claim?

I don't need to wait for something bad to happen to then ban it. We take away plenty of rights from felons everyday, even those convicted of fraud. A felon has already shown a penchant for not abiding by the law - I'm not keen on experimenting on whether they will do so again but this time with a gun. If you feel better about it making like voting, put a cap of a number of years on it after the felony conviction before they can own a gun again. That way people who are rehabilitated can be welcomed back into society more fully. I'll throw out a number, say 10 years after a felony conviction you get taken off the no guns list, assuming the record is clean since then.

[89Hen]

You didn't answer the question. Do you think somebody who committed felony fraud is more likely to kill somebody with a gun? Do you have any kind of statistics that will support that claim?

I don't need to wait for something bad to happen to then ban it. We take away plenty of rights from felons everyday, even those convicted of fraud. A felon has already shown a penchant for not abiding by the law - I'm not keen on experimenting on whether they will do so again but this time with a gun. If you feel better about it making like voting, put a cap of a number of years on it after the felony conviction before they can own a gun again. That way people who are rehabilitated can be welcomed back into society more fully. I'll throw out a number, say 10 years after a felony conviction you get taken off the no guns list, assuming the record is clean since then.

So your answer is no and no. Gotcha.

[GannonFan]

I don't need to wait for something bad to happen to then ban it. We take away plenty of rights from felons everyday, even those convicted of fraud. A felon has already shown a penchant for not abiding by the law - I'm not keen on experimenting on whether they will do so again but this time with a gun. If you feel better about it making like voting, put a cap of a number of years on it after the felony conviction before they can own a gun again. That way people who are rehabilitated can be welcomed back into society more fully. I'll throw out a number, say 10 years after a felony conviction you get taken off the no guns list, assuming the record is clean since then.

So your answer is no and no. Gotcha.

Well, when you ask a bad question you get the appropriate answer. Why do we take the right to vote away from felons? Are there studies showing they are more likely to be bad voters than non-felons?

[89Hen]

So your answer is no and no. Gotcha.

Well, when you ask a bad question you get the appropriate answer. Why do we take the right to vote away from felons? Are there studies showing they are more likely to be bad voters than non-felons?

Your answers are still no and no.

[GannonFan]

Well, when you ask a bad question you get the appropriate answer. Why do we take the right to vote away from felons? Are there studies showing they are more likely to be bad voters than non-felons?

Your answers are still no and no.

Sure, and they still don't get guns. Easy.

[89Hen]

Your answers are still no and no.

Sure, and they still don't get guns. Easy.

I don't think they should have driver's licenses either.

[GannonFan]

Sure, and they still don't get guns. Easy.

I don't think they should have driver's licenses either.

Certainly up for discussion. Although not having a drivers license as a convicted (and time served ) felon and not being able to own a weapon as the same type of felon has much more significant impact - hard to hold down a job in this country without a drivers license - it can be done, just a lot harder. Not being able to own a weapon doesn't have that same impact to making a living.

[89Hen]

I don't think they should have driver's licenses either.

Certainly up for discussion. Although not having a drivers license as a convicted (and time served ) felon and not being able to own a weapon as the same type of felon has much more significant impact - hard to hold down a job in this country without a drivers license - it can be done, just a lot harder. Not being able to own a weapon doesn't have that same impact to making a living.

Why do you bring up "time served" now? Seems like you didn't believe in it earlier.

[GannonFan]

Certainly up for discussion. Although not having a drivers license as a convicted (and time served ) felon and not being able to own a weapon as the same type of felon has much more significant impact - hard to hold down a job in this country without a drivers license - it can be done, just a lot harder. Not being able to own a weapon doesn't have that same impact to making a living.

Why do you bring up "time served" now? Seems like you didn't believe in it earlier.

Not sure your question - I already said I'd be alright with a time of good behavior after serving time to eventually pull the restriction (i.e. like what's done with voting rights for felons today).

[89Hen]

Well, on the felon thing, yes, as it pertains to owning a weapon, once a felon always a felon.

[GannonFan]

Well, on the felon thing, yes, as it pertains to owning a weapon, once a felon always a felon.

And later adjusted to this...

If you feel better about it making like voting, put a cap of a number of years on it after the felony conviction before they can own a gun again. That way people who are rehabilitated can be welcomed back into society more fully. I'll throw out a number, say 10 years after a felony conviction you get taken off the no guns list, assuming the record is clean since then.

It is possible to evolve and change on a subject or political topic, it's how we grow 89 - you should try it some time.

[Pwns]

One of my former co-workers had a bad situation with a crazy ex-boyfriend that stalked her and sent her threatening text messages, all kinds of stuff until he finally threatened to kill her. She got a restraining order but that's not going to stop a crazy person. She went out and got a small handgun just in case.

You never think about this kind of stuff until you are in that kind of position. Now would you want to tell a person like that they can't get the gun because you need to go through a waiting period because it makes a bunch of pantywaist liberals feel good? Or that they can't have it because they have a DUI or some kind of drug offense or some other conviction in our very imperfect justice system?

Sorry, but the right to defend yourself is one of the most fundamental rights there are, and it doesn't need to be subjected to feel-good, liberal placebo laws.

[grizzaholic]

One of my former co-workers had a bad situation with a crazy ex-boyfriend that stalked her and sent her threatening text messages, all kinds of stuff until he finally threatened to kill her. She got a restraining order but that's not going to stop a crazy person. She went out and got a small handgun just in case.

You never think about this kind of stuff until you are in that kind of position. Now would you want to tell a person like that they can't get the gun because you need to go through a waiting period because it makes a bunch of pantywaist liberals feel good? Or that they can't have it because they have a DUI or some kind of drug offense or some other conviction in our very imperfect justice system?

Sorry, but the right to defend yourself is one of the most fundamental rights there are, and it doesn't need to be subjected to feel-good, liberal placebo laws.

Houndy says you don't need guns. Common sense is all you need. She should trust the police and they will protect her. Guns are for pussies.

[89Hen]

And later adjusted to this...

If you feel better about it making like voting, put a cap of a number of years on it after the felony conviction before they can own a gun again. That way people who are rehabilitated can be welcomed back into society more fully. I'll throw out a number, say 10 years after a felony conviction you get taken off the no guns list, assuming the record is clean since then.

It is possible to evolve and change on a subject or political topic, it's how we grow 89 - you should try it some time.

You're as stubborn as me. The fact that you'd change from "for life" to not for life in a couple posts ought to tell you that your position on this one is weak.

[GannonFan]

And later adjusted to this...



It is possible to evolve and change on a subject or political topic, it's how we grow 89 - you should try it some time.

You're as stubborn as me. The fact that you'd change from "for life" to not for life in a couple posts ought to tell you that your position on this one is weak.

Nonsense - it's that kind of attitude ("I can never change my position") that's gotten us into this political mess we're in now anyway. If your politics is to go to Washington with a set group of opinions and never once waver or rethink or adjust any of them then you're just taking up space. There's no moral weakness in making small adjustments to ideas once you're confronted with opposing viewpoints that you either hadn't thought of before or that you didn't thoroughly digest before. Nobody is perfect, nobody's ideas are perfect, and if you need to make some small adjustments to get a little more perfect and actually accomplish something then that's what should be done.

[89Hen]

You're as stubborn as me. The fact that you'd change from "for life" to not for life in a couple posts ought to tell you that your position on this one is weak.

Nonsense - it's that kind of attitude ("I can never change my position") that's gotten us into this political mess we're in now anyway. If your politics is to go to Washington with a set group of opinions and never once waver or rethink or adjust any of them then you're just taking up space. There's no moral weakness in making small adjustments to ideas once you're confronted with opposing viewpoints that you either hadn't thought of before or that you didn't thoroughly digest before. Nobody is perfect, nobody's ideas are perfect, and if you need to make some small adjustments to get a little more perfect and actually accomplish something then that's what should be done.

Nonsense yourself. I'm not saying you shouldn't change your position or it can't evolve, but if it changes or evolves in 20 minutes over a couple of posts, chances are your entire position was a half baked idea to begin with. When you clearly say "once a felon, always a felon" that should be a stance for which that takes a long time to change.

I've mentioned several times that I used to be for capital punishment but no longer am. That took years for my perspective to change.

[GannonFan]

Nonsense - it's that kind of attitude ("I can never change my position") that's gotten us into this political mess we're in now anyway. If your politics is to go to Washington with a set group of opinions and never once waver or rethink or adjust any of them then you're just taking up space. There's no moral weakness in making small adjustments to ideas once you're confronted with opposing viewpoints that you either hadn't thought of before or that you didn't thoroughly digest before. Nobody is perfect, nobody's ideas are perfect, and if you need to make some small adjustments to get a little more perfect and actually accomplish something then that's what should be done.

Nonsense yourself. I'm not saying you shouldn't change your position or it can't evolve, but if it changes or evolves in 20 minutes over a couple of posts, chances are your entire position was a half baked idea to begin with. When you clearly say "once a felon, always a felon" that should be a stance for which that takes a long time to change.

I've mentioned several times that I used to be for capital punishment but no longer am. That took years for my perspective to change.

We're having the debate now - now is exactly when someone's views and preconceptions can be challenged and formented and developed. If you're measuring change by years then we'll never get there. Too many things to discuss and move on to get stuck on a fixed position for years just because you don't want to admit your first idea isn't perfect.

[89Hen]

Nonsense yourself. I'm not saying you shouldn't change your position or it can't evolve, but if it changes or evolves in 20 minutes over a couple of posts, chances are your entire position was a half baked idea to begin with. When you clearly say "once a felon, always a felon" that should be a stance for which that takes a long time to change.

I've mentioned several times that I used to be for capital punishment but no longer am. That took years for my perspective to change.

We're having the debate now - now is exactly when someone's views and preconceptions can be challenged and formented and developed. If you're measuring change by years then we'll never get there. Too many things to discuss and move on to get stuck on a fixed position for years just because you don't want to admit your first idea isn't perfect.

You're spitballing ideas but stating them in a way that makes it sound like you've actually thought them out and are firm in your conviction.