Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

[GannonFan]

And what we don’t have, we can....wait for it....trade for?

(Free trade is a sweet marketing myth to benefit corporatism/fascism )

Stop it, now you're no longer out on the edge but literally falling off of it. Fascism loves trade barriers and trade wars - it feeds into the whole nationalism part of fascism. Free trade is the antithesis of fascism. You're on the mark on corporatism, that is a danger, but then you whiffed trying to be coy on the fascism part.

[Skjellyfetti]

Fascism loves trade barriers and trade wars - it feeds into the whole nationalism part of fascism. Free trade is the antithesis of fascism.

Gotta agree with Gannon here.

[Skjellyfetti]

Putting Mr. Burns on TV to mock food prices.

[CAA Flagship]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-c ... SKBN1900UP

June 9, 2017

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union has set duties of up to 35.9 percent on imports of hot-rolled flat steel from China to counter what it says are unfair subsidies in a finding challenged by Beijing.

Oh, the horror.

[kalm]

Of course not. And I’m not sure if these tariffs are the right way to roll. I’m open minded about it...I’m a liberal.

But you really should read the article. It’s less black and white than you think Mr. Friedman.

I did read it. Nothing replaces competing - nothing.

We aren't about to become the world's leading producer of crude oil for the first time since the late 60's (I'm assuming we were then - could be wrong) because we threw up barriers to compete and tariffs and other anti-free trade measures. We did it by what America has historically done best - we busted our butts, developed new technology (again, thank you fracking), and we did it so well that even in the US, with all of our levels of environmental and labor protections and regulations, we could still out produce and out profit Russia and the OPEC nations. And those entities did everything they could, including glutting the market and trying to drive American producers out of business, to not have this happen. Sure, plenty of American producers went belly-up, but those who survived did so because they were innovative and came up with even better techniques and better technology to be even more of a lower cost manufacturer and they outlasted the cartels and are dominant today.

We will never see the types of gains we want to see in standards of living and economic growth and market innovations trying to compete with China on their terms by trying to corral all that we have and try to hunker down. We have our strengths as a country and isolationism and trade barriers aren't included in that. Pick things we can do well, things that are hard for other countries to do, and compete there in free markets. We've had a lot of examples of doing that in the past, it would be a shame to throw it all away because we decided to take our ball and go home.

We are close to agreeing then.

[kalm]

(Free trade is a sweet marketing myth to benefit corporatism/fascism )

Stop it, now you're no longer out on the edge but literally falling off of it. Fascism loves trade barriers and trade wars - it feeds into the whole nationalism part of fascism. Free trade is the antithesis of fascism. You're on the mark on corporatism, that is a danger, but then you whiffed trying to be coy on the fascism part.

Meh. So it was a loose description. Capitalism for US corporations, fascism for Marianna islanders...

(Corporatism is a subsidiary of fascism)

[CID1990]

Gotta stick up for the faggot here:


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/gra ... or-anymore

Nevermore

No

Evermore

A battle was fought there once


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[CID1990]

I rarely pay much attention to trade and econ policy but there are a few things (like strategic industries) that I do perk up at

But for the most part I pay attention to foreign policy - and I found Obama and his two Secretaries of State to be severely lacking in just about every way they could be - naive, feckless, arrogant and policy was 100% politically driven

I'm sure there was some other venue where that administration did some beneficial things for the country, but our fp was a continual amateur hour of the lefty kind

now we have something similar of the righty-hawky kind


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Yet they are light-years less naive, feckless and arrogant than Trump.


Clinton/Obama screwed up in Libya. When will our country ever learn that trying to force democracy on countries not ready is a recipe for disaster (Bush-Iraq, Obama-Libya)

Jon Jon Jon

Your defense of the Obama admin is cute, and even noble loyalty in the face of the body of work and facts to the contrary

In the short term the Obama fp writ large was a fumbling, make it up as you go fiasco- arrogant because the only plan was "we're smart and oh did we mention we're not Bush"

In the long term they were no different from Bush or Bill Clinton in terms of short sightedness and overall decline of US credibility in the world


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[93henfan]

Nevermore

No

Evermore

A battle was fought there once


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Zeppelin references always work for me.

[BDKJMU]

The Stock Market knows this, which is why they plunged today.

25% Tariff on imported steel (that Trump was a big user of), 10% on aluminum will fuel inflation, and is a tax hike on every one.


Well done!!

Canned beer just got more expensive...thanks Drumpf

According to what I looked up on the inter, interwebs, an aluminum can costs about 2.5 cents. So a 10% increase in that = about .25 cent a can, or about 6 cents a case. Even if the site was wrong and the cost of a can was double (5 cents a can) the point woudn’t change. There’s reasons to be against the tarrifs, but more expensive canned beer isn’t one of them..

[Ibanez]

Canned beer just got more expensive...thanks Drumpf

According to what I looked up on the inter, interwebs, an aluminum can costs about 2.5 cents. So a 10% increase in that = about .25 cent a can, or about 6 cents a case. Even if the site was wrong and the cost of a can was double (5 cents a can) the point woudn’t change. There’s reasons to be against the tarrifs, but more expensive canned beer isn’t one of them..

Did I say that’s a reason?


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[BDKJMU]

According to what I looked up on the inter, interwebs, an aluminum can costs about 2.5 cents. So a 10% increase in that = about .25 cent a can, or about 6 cents a case. Even if the site was wrong and the cost of a can was double (5 cents a can) the point woudn’t change. There’s reasons to be against the tarrifs, but more expensive canned beer isn’t one of them..

Did I say that’s a reason?


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Ok, it sounded like a complaint. The increased cost would be so negligible it wouldn‘t be worth complaining about.

[dbackjon]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... ec35387a5f


There is legit complaining about Trump's idiocy

[BDKJMU]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... ec35387a5f


There is legit complaining about Trump's idiocy

I'm not buying increasing the cost of an aluminum can by a fraction of 1 cent would make much difference.

[JohnStOnge]

In the short term the Obama fp writ large was a fumbling, make it up as you go fiasco- arrogant because the only plan was "we're smart and oh did we mention we're not Bush"

In the long term they were no different from Bush or Bill Clinton in terms of short sightedness and overall decline of US credibility in the world

I think we are now at a new order of magnitude in terms of the lack of US credibility in the world.

[JohnStOnge]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... ec35387a5f


There is legit complaining about Trump's idiocy

I'm not buying increasing the cost of an aluminum can by a fraction of 1 cent would make much difference.

Companies that use aluminum are saying it is going to hurt them. Why would they say that if it's not really going to hurt them? If they think, "Oh well, it won't raise the price of a can by even one cent so no skin off our cheek," why are they protesting? Couldn't they just say, "we'll just raise the price by a penny and it'll have no effect?"

If they're complaining about it there's a reason for it. It's not nothing.

[SDHornet]

In the short term the Obama fp writ large was a fumbling, make it up as you go fiasco- arrogant because the only plan was "we're smart and oh did we mention we're not Bush"

In the long term they were no different from Bush or Bill Clinton in terms of short sightedness and overall decline of US credibility in the world

I think we are now at a new order of magnitude in terms of the lack of US credibility in the world.

That ship sailed long ago...

then the last admin added a red line that wasn't enforced, created another failed state after "we came, we saw, he died, hahahaha", continued droning muslins to death among other things...

...so yeah not really sure how much credibility there is left to be lost.

[SDHornet]

We'll see how this whole tariff things goes but I'm on the side of the economists who are saying this is a bad move...also heard US industries that use steel get about 72% of it from domestic sources so the whole idea that this is to save the US steel industry is nonesense.

Also not sure what the end game is. I guess if China budges on their price fixing is the goal? Haven't really read up on this so interested to see if anyone knows.

[CID1990]

Admittedly, the Dept of Commerce is a cabinet department, and Wilbur Ross is a Trump appointee -

but I wonder why the media outlets that are currently screaming about the tariff have actually read the Commerce reports in support of the tariff -

https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-rel ... ordination

If it is inaccurate, then I think CNN et al should be pointing out the inaccuracies, instead of placing so much weight on how our friends and enemies overseas are pulling their hair out, or how Trump "surprised" his advisors in announcing it.

One thing that is refreshing is that there actually ARE people in government who recognize the critical importance of our domestic steel and aluminum industries - and it is clearly outlined in the Commerce report.

Again, I don't think tariffs alone are the answer - but there are some underlying vulnerabilities in our domestic production that do need to be addressed, if it is at least agreed that we need the ability to supply 100% of our domestic consumption with US produced steel and aluminum. To me it seems that opponents of the tariff want to throw the baby out with the bathwater as much as its supporters do.

[CAA Flagship]

Is it a good move? On the surface, probably not. Probably even deep down also.
But it's about time other countries get called out for the bullshit they pull at an ever(more ) increasing rate. Just like the NATO thing where countries were not making the AGREED UPON investments in their defense and instead diverting it to their economy.

[CID1990]

Is it a good move? On the surface, probably not. Probably even deep down also.
But it's about time other countries get called out for the bullshit they pull at an ever(more ) increasing rate. Just like the NATO thing where countries were not making the AGREED UPON investments in their defense and instead diverting it to their economy.

And now Germany cannot field enough tanks to fulfill their exercise and readiness obligations

Which is why it is necessary for us to pull out of NATO - or at least demand that member nations pull their weight

Here's some food for thought-

How many people have we heard on this very forum - complaining about our military industrial complex and military spending - and those same people weigh in against the suggestion that we should leave NATO?

The same logic applies here - you cant complain about Wal Mart undercutting everybody and becoming the cheap sh1t Borg while wanting to protect trade structures that allow it to happen


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[JohnStOnge]

I think we are now at a new order of magnitude in terms of the lack of US credibility in the world.

That ship sailed long ago...

then the last admin added a red line that wasn't enforced, created another failed state after "we came, we saw, he died, hahahaha", continued droning muslins to death among other things...

...so yeah not really sure how much credibility there is left to be lost.

You know what I'm talking about. We've never had a "they don't know what the hell they're doing" reputation like we have now with the election of Trump.

[HI54UNI]

We'll see how this whole tariff things goes but I'm on the side of the economists who are saying this is a bad move...also heard US industries that use steel get about 72% of it from domestic sources so the whole idea that this is to save the US steel industry is nonesense.

Also not sure what the end game is. I guess if China budges on their price fixing is the goal? Haven't really read up on this so interested to see if anyone knows.

Always remember that economists were created to make weather forecasters look good.

[JohnStOnge]

We'll see how this whole tariff things goes but I'm on the side of the economists who are saying this is a bad move...also heard US industries that use steel get about 72% of it from domestic sources so the whole idea that this is to save the US steel industry is nonesense.

Also not sure what the end game is. I guess if China budges on their price fixing is the goal? Haven't really read up on this so interested to see if anyone knows.

Always remember that economists were created to make weather forecasters look good.

Actually, though I know it's popular to talk about instances in which personal experiences seem to be inconsistent with weather forecasts, weather forecasts are actually pretty darned good. Like for instance I was planning to go fishing Tuesday if the wind was from the South. But tonight I checked the weather forecast and it said the winds are going to be from the North. And you know what? They're going to be from the North.

I've been through it many times. Yes if I look at something like that 10 days ahead of time there is hope that the forecast may change as time goes on. But at this point it's not going to happen.

Or like when the big storm impacted the upper east coast this past week. We knew ahead of time that basic thing was going to happen.

You're right about economics being more uncertain. But that doesn't mean economists don't generally have a better idea than random guessing would provide or than somebody like Donald Trump has.

[CID1990]

That ship sailed long ago...

then the last admin added a red line that wasn't enforced, created another failed state after "we came, we saw, he died, hahahaha", continued droning muslins to death among other things...

...so yeah not really sure how much credibility there is left to be lost.

You know what I'm talking about. We've never had a "they don't know what the hell they're doing" reputation like we have now with the election of Trump.

I heard a lot of "they don't know what the hell they are doing" around the world about the last three administrations too.

Maybe you'd like to lay out a comparative "they don't know what the hell they are doing" quantitative graph for us, across say, the last 25 years.

Would you say that our "they don't know what the hell they are doing" factor has increased by more than 6.93%?

I looked in Pew but there were no studies about the "they don't know what the hell they are doing" phenomenon.