For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by JohnStOnge »

andy7171 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Trump is way above and beyond the normal range displayed by politicians. He's way more dishonest. He's got way more of a history of cheating people. He is way more of a bald faced and obvious serial liar.

I know that's part of the schtick to say, "All politicians are like that."

No. They're not. Trump is beyond the pale even in the context of what politicians are like.

And that's been actually documented by multiple fact checking efforts. But, of course, the Trump zombies claim the fact checkers aren't reliable. But they are. Not perfect. But the basic picture they present is true. Trump is WAY worse than other politicians when it comes to making false statements.

And there aren't a whole lot of politicians, if any, who have the history of stiffing people they made agreements with that Trump has. Or doing something as cheesy as that Trump University scam.

No, it's not a "typical politician" thing. It's way worse.
Where does Hillary fall in comparison?
Well, for example, Politifact has 50% of Clinton's rated statements as True or Mostly True vs. 16% of Trump's statements rated as such. So it's got Clinton making true statements proportionately a lot more often than Trump does. And it's got 26% of Clinton's statements as Mostly False, False, or Pants on Fire vs. 69% of Trump's rated as such. So it's got Trump making false statements proportionately a whole lot more often than Clinton does.

It's not close. If Clinton is dishonest, Trump is dishonest squared. At least.

But then we have that problem where Trumpsters as well as others on the "conservative" side just refuse to believe sources that tell them truths they don't want to believe. So they say Politifact can't be believed even though the media bias rating site I use has it in the "least biased" category with a "High" factual reporting rating. And they say any other fact checking effort that identifies Trump as a politician of unprecedented dishonesty can't be believed.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Gil Dobie »

kalm wrote:
TheDancinMonarch wrote:
algore! Except he didn't finish law school.
algore is nearly undefeatable. :thumb:
FIFBOY :nod:
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Gil Dobie »

houndawg wrote:
kalm wrote:
Could be...and most of them are lawyers.

Boom...in in your face IT!

(An attorney who attended seminary school and later becomes a politician is probably some sort of super human that cannot be defeated)
lol...Jerry Brown.

or as they call him in CA - Governor Budget Surplus. :coffee:

Post Peoples Temple attendance of course.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Gil Dobie »

JohnStOnge wrote:
93henfan wrote:
I think he's describing politicians.
Trump is way above and beyond the normal range displayed by politicians. He's way more dishonest. He's got way more of a history of cheating people. He is way more of a bald faced and obvious serial liar.

I know that's part of the schtick to say, "All politicians are like that."

No. They're not. Trump is beyond the pale even in the context of what politicians are like.

And that's been actually documented by multiple fact checking efforts. But, of course, the Trump zombies claim the fact checkers aren't reliable. But they are. Not perfect. But the basic picture they present is true. Trump is WAY worse than other politicians when it comes to making false statements.

And there aren't a whole lot of politicians, if any, who have the history of stiffing people they made agreements with that Trump has. Or doing something as cheesy as that Trump University scam.

No, it's not a "typical politician" thing. It's way worse.
Way more? Clinton must not have been a politician. :lol:
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Skjellyfetti »

BUT, CLINTON!!

Pretty telling that you had to resist the BUT, OBAMA reflex.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Gil Dobie »

Skjellyfetti wrote:BUT, CLINTON!!

Pretty telling that you had to resist the BUT, OBAMA reflex.
I don't think Obama was as bad as Hillary Clinton or Trump. As far as being a crook.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Skjellyfetti »

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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Gil Dobie »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Image
So you think Obama was a bigger crook than Clinton?

I wasn't even thinking about her emails. :lol:
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by 93henfan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:BUT, CLINTON!!

Pretty telling that you had to resist the BUT, OBAMA reflex.
Of course it's BUT, CLINTON. :dunce:

That's the only thing that drove people to hold their noses and vote for Trump.

"BUT, CLINTON" is a given in any discussion about Trump.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by JohnStOnge »

Gil Dobie wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Trump is way above and beyond the normal range displayed by politicians. He's way more dishonest. He's got way more of a history of cheating people. He is way more of a bald faced and obvious serial liar.

I know that's part of the schtick to say, "All politicians are like that."

No. They're not. Trump is beyond the pale even in the context of what politicians are like.

And that's been actually documented by multiple fact checking efforts. But, of course, the Trump zombies claim the fact checkers aren't reliable. But they are. Not perfect. But the basic picture they present is true. Trump is WAY worse than other politicians when it comes to making false statements.

And there aren't a whole lot of politicians, if any, who have the history of stiffing people they made agreements with that Trump has. Or doing something as cheesy as that Trump University scam.

No, it's not a "typical politician" thing. It's way worse.
Way more? Clinton must not have been a politician. :lol:
Clinton never did anything close to as bad as that Trump University thing in terms of scamming people. Clinton didn't routinely tell people who agreed to do work for her that she would pay them for the work then renigged. Clinton didn't do stuff like borrow money from banks under specific terms knowing damn well she wouldn't live up to the terms then come back later to "renegotiate" the terms. You know, put the banks in the position of having to go ahead and change the terms or lose even more. The guy is completely corrupt. Yes, WAY more corrupt than Hillary Clinton. WAY more dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by 93henfan »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Way more? Clinton must not have been a politician. :lol:
Clinton never did anything close to as bad as that Trump University thing in terms of scamming people. Clinton didn't routinely tell people who agreed to do work for her that she would pay them for the work then renigged. Clinton didn't do stuff like borrow money from banks under specific terms knowing damn well she wouldn't live up to the terms then come back later to "renegotiate" the terms. You know, put the banks in the position of having to go ahead and change the terms or lose even more. The guy is completely corrupt. Yes, WAY more corrupt than Hillary Clinton. WAY more dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
You had me up until the last two sentences. Clinton is certainly a smoother criminal, but I'd argue she's equal if not more corrupt and dishonest. Trump might not pay you or deliver every time, but at least you don't turn up dead in a park.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

93henfan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Clinton never did anything close to as bad as that Trump University thing in terms of scamming people. Clinton didn't routinely tell people who agreed to do work for her that she would pay them for the work then renigged. Clinton didn't do stuff like borrow money from banks under specific terms knowing damn well she wouldn't live up to the terms then come back later to "renegotiate" the terms. You know, put the banks in the position of having to go ahead and change the terms or lose even more. The guy is completely corrupt. Yes, WAY more corrupt than Hillary Clinton. WAY more dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
You had me up until the last two sentences. Clinton is certainly a smoother criminal, but I'd argue she's equal if not more corrupt and dishonest. Trump might not pay you or deliver every time, but at least you don't turn up dead in a park.
You’ve already said too much. Good luck with your commute home!
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by 93henfan »

kalm wrote:
93henfan wrote:
You had me up until the last two sentences. Clinton is certainly a smoother criminal, but I'd argue she's equal if not more corrupt and dishonest. Trump might not pay you or deliver every time, but at least you don't turn up dead in a park.
You’ve already said too much. Good luck with your commute home!
No issues, other than the black Suburban I shook in Maryland.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by kalm »

93henfan wrote:
kalm wrote:
You’ve already said too much. Good luck with your commute home!
No issues, other than the black Suburban I shook in Maryland.
Phew! I was worried about ya!

Btw, might wanna have that Blue Apron box that arrived today tested...in case it tastes funny.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by BDKJMU »

JohnStOnge wrote:
andy7171 wrote: Where does Hillary fall in comparison?
Well, for example, Politifact has 50% of Clinton's rated statements as True or Mostly True vs. 16% of Trump's statements rated as such. So it's got Clinton making true statements proportionately a lot more often than Trump does. And it's got 26% of Clinton's statements as Mostly False, False, or Pants on Fire vs. 69% of Trump's rated as such. So it's got Trump making false statements proportionately a whole lot more often than Clinton does.

It's not close. If Clinton is dishonest, Trump is dishonest squared. At least.

But then we have that problem where Trumpsters as well as others on the "conservative" side just refuse to believe sources that tell them truths they don't want to believe. So they say Politifact can't be believed even though the media bias rating site I use has it in the "least biased" category with a "High" factual reporting rating. And they say any other fact checking effort that identifies Trump as a politician of unprecedented dishonesty can't be believed.
:lol:
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by houndawg »

93henfan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Clinton never did anything close to as bad as that Trump University thing in terms of scamming people. Clinton didn't routinely tell people who agreed to do work for her that she would pay them for the work then renigged. Clinton didn't do stuff like borrow money from banks under specific terms knowing damn well she wouldn't live up to the terms then come back later to "renegotiate" the terms. You know, put the banks in the position of having to go ahead and change the terms or lose even more. The guy is completely corrupt. Yes, WAY more corrupt than Hillary Clinton. WAY more dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
You had me up until the last two sentences. Clinton is certainly a smoother criminal, but I'd argue she's equal if not more corrupt and dishonest. Trump might not pay you or deliver every time, but at least you don't turn up dead in a park.
Too smooth for a quarter-century of Republican investigations anyway. :coffee:
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Way more? Clinton must not have been a politician. :lol:
Clinton never never got caught doing anything close to as bad as that Trump University thing in terms of scamming people.
FYP

The lack of definitive proof that Clinton is dishonest is not proof that she is not dishonest or less dishonest than Trump. There wasn't enough evidence around the Clinton Foundation, her e-mail server or Benghazi to convict her but there was definitely enough to question her honesty and integrity.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

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^Add another one to the kill list.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Ibanez »

JohnStOnge wrote:
andy7171 wrote: Where does Hillary fall in comparison?
Well, for example, Politifact has 50% of Clinton's rated statements as True or Mostly True vs. 16% of Trump's statements rated as such. So it's got Clinton making true statements proportionately a lot more often than Trump does. And it's got 26% of Clinton's statements as Mostly False, False, or Pants on Fire vs. 69% of Trump's rated as such. So it's got Trump making false statements proportionately a whole lot more often than Clinton does.

It's not close. If Clinton is dishonest, Trump is dishonest squared. At least.

But then we have that problem where Trumpsters as well as others on the "conservative" side just refuse to believe sources that tell them truths they don't want to believe. So they say Politifact can't be believed even though the media bias rating site I use has it in the "least biased" category with a "High" factual reporting rating. And they say any other fact checking effort that identifies Trump as a politician of unprecedented dishonesty can't be believed.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Fifty Shades of Dishonesty?

C'mon JSO, would you accept that from anyone else?

Well, Wilson is dishonest only 44% of the time whereas Matthews is dishonest 61% of the time. So...let's give it to the least dishonest, corrupt person of the two.
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Ibanez »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Way more? Clinton must not have been a politician. :lol:
Clinton never did anything close to as bad as that Trump University thing in terms of scamming people. Clinton didn't routinely tell people who agreed to do work for her that she would pay them for the work then renigged. Clinton didn't do stuff like borrow money from banks under specific terms knowing damn well she wouldn't live up to the terms then come back later to "renegotiate" the terms. You know, put the banks in the position of having to go ahead and change the terms or lose even more. The guy is completely corrupt. Yes, WAY more corrupt than Hillary Clinton. WAY more dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
Are you fucking serious? Trump may have scammed people but did he mishandle classified information and use his government position for financial gain? :lol: :lol:
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by andy7171 »

Ibanez wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Clinton never did anything close to as bad as that Trump University thing in terms of scamming people. Clinton didn't routinely tell people who agreed to do work for her that she would pay them for the work then renigged. Clinton didn't do stuff like borrow money from banks under specific terms knowing damn well she wouldn't live up to the terms then come back later to "renegotiate" the terms. You know, put the banks in the position of having to go ahead and change the terms or lose even more. The guy is completely corrupt. Yes, WAY more corrupt than Hillary Clinton. WAY more dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
Are you fucking serious? Trump may have scammed people but did he mishandle classified information and use his government position for financial gain? :lol: :lol:
Let me do it for you skjelly, "BUT BUT BUT CLINTON!"
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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Skjellyfetti »

BUT TRUMP!!!

He hasn't mishandled classified information? Revealing Israeli intelligence to Russia. Revealing the location of nuclear subs to Duterte. Allowing swaths of WH officials that can't get appropriate clearances to access classified information - including the fucking PDB. He's President - so, all of this is, of course, legal. But, Trump hasn't mishandled classified information? L-O-L.

Trump hasn't used his government position for personal gain? Not sure if serious on this one. But, I'll provide links if y'all are insistent.
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Re: RE: Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by UNI88 »

93henfan wrote:^Add another one to the kill list.
Shhhh. I'm working undercover with the Brits. There are unconfirmed reports that Hillary has been colluding with Russians on the best method to "dispose" of your enemies.

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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by Chizzang »

Pwns wrote:I think you guys know I'm not some Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris type, but I think these people have become a joke. If Hugh Hefner ran on the Donk ticket they'd be eating him up like locust swarm on a corn field.
Do even read your posts..?

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Re: For JSO: A Tale of Forgiveness

Post by JohnStOnge »

93henfan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Clinton never did anything close to as bad as that Trump University thing in terms of scamming people. Clinton didn't routinely tell people who agreed to do work for her that she would pay them for the work then renigged. Clinton didn't do stuff like borrow money from banks under specific terms knowing damn well she wouldn't live up to the terms then come back later to "renegotiate" the terms. You know, put the banks in the position of having to go ahead and change the terms or lose even more. The guy is completely corrupt. Yes, WAY more corrupt than Hillary Clinton. WAY more dishonest than Hillary Clinton.
You had me up until the last two sentences. Clinton is certainly a smoother criminal, but I'd argue she's equal if not more corrupt and dishonest. Trump might not pay you or deliver every time, but at least you don't turn up dead in a park.
I can't believe you went into the conspiracy theory ethosphere like that. Seriously? You buy that stuff?
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