2018 SCOTUS cases

[Ibanez]

BTW, I think that if people had to provide actual proof of citizenship in order to vote most people who vote now couldn't vote.

That’s the point, Einstein.


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[Ibanez]

Again, haven't needed one in all of my adult years. If it becomes necessary to vote - I'll get one, though

Like a REAL ID, make it an ID that you need for driving, buying alcohol, smokes or porn; getting a job, etc....everyone should have an idea. Especially every single adult. If you’re over 18 and you don’t have an ID- then there’s probably an underlying issue as to why. It’s not about disenfranchisement. Make them free since the govt is requiring it.


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[kalm]

Again, haven't needed one in all of my adult years. If it becomes necessary to vote - I'll get one, though

Like a REAL ID, make it an ID that you need for driving, buying alcohol, smokes or porn; getting a job, etc....everyone should have an idea. Especially every single adult. If you’re over 18 and you don’t have an ID- then there’s probably an underlying issue as to why. It’s not about disenfranchisement. Make them free since the govt is requiring it.


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Wait till you schmucks get the internet! No idea required!

[Skjellyfetti]

Like a REAL ID, make it an ID that you need for driving, buying alcohol, smokes or porn; getting a job, etc....everyone should have an idea. Especially every single adult.

REAL ID has nothing to do with citizenship though. Legal residents without the right to vote still need to drive, buy alchohol, porn, smokes, get a job, etc.

Or would this proposed one just be an extra I'd for citizens to carry?

[Baldy]

Drivers licenses don't prove citizenship. Wife has a driver's license but can't vote. I'm sure she'llbe losing that privilege before long, though.

I have not had or needed a birth certificate in decades and I don't have one. You don't need one to renew a passport.

WRONG!
§ 37.21 Temporary or limited-term driver's licenses and identification cards.

States may only issue a temporary or limited-term REAL ID driver's license or identification card to an individual who has temporary lawful status in the United States.

(a) States must require, before issuing a temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card to a person, valid documentary evidence, verifiable through SAVE or other DHS-approved means, that the person has lawful status in the United States.

(b) States shall not issue a temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card pursuant to this section:

(1) For a time period longer than the expiration of the applicant's authorized stay in the United States, or, if there is no expiration date, for a period longer than one year; and

(2) For longer than the State's maximum driver's license or identification card term.

(c) States shall renew a temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card pursuant to this section and § 37.25(b)(2) , only if:

(1) the individual presents valid documentary evidence that the status by which the applicant qualified for the temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card is still in effect, or

(2) the individual presents valid documentary evidence that he or she continues to qualify for lawful status under paragraph (a) of this section.

(d) States must verify the information presented to establish lawful status through SAVE, or another method approved by DHS.

(e) Temporary or limited-term driver's licenses and identification cards must clearly indicate on the face of the license and in the machine readable zone that the license or card is a temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card.

38 states are doing this.

[Skjellyfetti]

Uh. Baldy... I think you're a bit confused between a lawful immigrant and citizen.

[CID1990]

Drivers licenses don't prove citizenship. Wife has a driver's license but can't vote. I'm sure she'llbe losing that privilege before long, though.

I have not had or needed a birth certificate in decades and I don't have one. You don't need one to renew a passport.

WRONG!
§ 37.21 Temporary or limited-term driver's licenses and identification cards.

States may only issue a temporary or limited-term REAL ID driver's license or identification card to an individual who has temporary lawful status in the United States.

(a) States must require, before issuing a temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card to a person, valid documentary evidence, verifiable through SAVE or other DHS-approved means, that the person has lawful status in the United States.

(b) States shall not issue a temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card pursuant to this section:

(1) For a time period longer than the expiration of the applicant's authorized stay in the United States, or, if there is no expiration date, for a period longer than one year; and

(2) For longer than the State's maximum driver's license or identification card term.

(c) States shall renew a temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card pursuant to this section and § 37.25(b)(2) , only if:

(1) the individual presents valid documentary evidence that the status by which the applicant qualified for the temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card is still in effect, or

(2) the individual presents valid documentary evidence that he or she continues to qualify for lawful status under paragraph (a) of this section.

(d) States must verify the information presented to establish lawful status through SAVE, or another method approved by DHS.

(e) Temporary or limited-term driver's licenses and identification cards must clearly indicate on the face of the license and in the machine readable zone that the license or card is a temporary or limited-term driver's license or identification card.

38 states are doing this.

It just means that to get a REALID they need to have legal status in the US. LPRs qualify as well - and in fact, aliens on duration of status employment visas would qualify as well. But none of them are USCs.

All that said, Jelly - many states' voting districts do not require proof of citizenship to register to vote. They do require proof of residence. I did so solely on my SCDL. Technically your wife is not allowed to vote, but she certainly could if she wanted to -

I get lots of voter registration cards at the visa window overseas because immigrant visa applicants don't understand our laws and think that voter registration cards somehow carry weight... outside of the fact that they regularly prove to me that non citizens are registering to vote.

[AZGrizFan]

“Supreme Court says states can remove voters who skip elections, ignore warnings

WASHINGTON -- Failing to vote can lead to getting knocked off voter registration rolls, a deeply divided Supreme Court ruled Monday in a decision that likely will help Republicans and hurt Democrats.

The court's conservative majority ruled 5-4 that Ohio did not violate federal laws by purging voters who failed to vote for six years and did not confirm their residency -- considered the strictest such law in the nation.

The ruling protects similar laws in six states, including several electing governors or U.S. senators this fall. They are Pennsylvania, Georgia, Oregon, Oklahoma, West Virginia and Montana.

Civil rights groups had challenged Ohio's procedure for cleaning up voter registration rolls because it disproportionately affects minorities, the poor and people with disabilities. The Trump administration reversed the position taken by its predecessor and sided with Ohio......”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 587316002/

I think this is the first big decision where one can say that it's likely that the Republicans denying Obama a Supreme Court nomination mattered. And it IS big.

I think both sides have ulterior motives. I think the Republicans do want to stop people who are legally eligible to vote from voting. I think they do want to cut voting among minorities. And I also think Democrats want to have people who are not eligible to vote voting.

This was a fairly big win for Republican vote suppression efforts and a fairly big loss for Democrat illegal voting efforts.

If you buy into the “voter suppression” conspiracy theories, Spandos.

[Ibanez]

Like a REAL ID, make it an ID that you need for driving, buying alcohol, smokes or porn; getting a job, etc....everyone should have an idea. Especially every single adult.

REAL ID has nothing to do with citizenship though. Legal residents without the right to vote still need to drive, buy alchohol, porn, smokes, get a job, etc.

Or would this proposed one just be an extra I'd for citizens to carry?

I'm suggesting one, all inclusive ID. Just have a different color band or a code embedded in the bar code that can easily ID you as a citizen.

That's why I said, "Like".

Btw, to get a REAL ID, you need to provide the following

To get the card, unless the documents are already on file, all current license holders will need:

▪ A government-issued birth certificate or valid U.S. passport

▪ Proof of a Social Security number

▪ Two proofs of their current S.C. address

▪ Record of every name change

You are already providing documentation that will show your citizenship/lawful status. It's 2018 - this shouldn't be difficult or an issue.

[Baldy]

Uh. Baldy... I think you're a bit confused between a lawful immigrant and citizen.

Um, no.

US citizens do not have "Limited Term" printed on their drivers licenses.

[Skjellyfetti]

And legal permanent residents (green card holders)?

[∞∞∞]

Pretty amazing that in a world where information travels in an instant, where people carry digital wallets and bank online, where the IRS encourages the use of tax-return programs, and you can order your state IDs through the internet...the "leader of the free world" can't find a way to track who's eligible to vote.

[GannonFan]

Pretty amazing that in a world where information travels in an instant, where people carry digital wallets and bank online, where the IRS encourages the use of tax-return programs, and you can order your state IDs through the internet...the "leader of the free world" can't find a way to track who's eligible to vote.

You apparently need to check your white privilege at the door, thank you very much.

[∞∞∞]

Pretty amazing that in a world where information travels in an instant, where people carry digital wallets and bank online, where the IRS encourages the use of tax-return programs, and you can order your state IDs through the internet...the "leader of the free world" can't find a way to track who's eligible to vote.

You apparently need to check your white privilege at the door, thank you very much.

What? If you're implying other people can't do that stuff because of their socio-economic status, that has nothing to do with the point being made.

In a world where all those things can be done, neither the federal or state governments have a valid excuse to deny anyone who can vote the right to do so. It doesn't matter if that person shows up one second before the polls close with no prior registration history in their entire life. If they're a US citizen with the eligibility to vote, it shouldn't be difficult to do so.

[AZGrizFan]

You apparently need to check your white privilege at the door, thank you very much.

What? If you're implying other people can't do that stuff because of their socio-economic status, that has nothing to do with the point being made.

In a world where all those things can be done, neither the federal or state governments have a valid excuse to deny anyone who can vote the right to do so. It doesn't matter if that person shows up one second before the polls close with no prior registration history in their entire life. If they're a US citizen with the eligibility to vote, it shouldn't be difficult to do so.

It's already been explained why the problem exists. Try and keep up.

[∞∞∞]

What? If you're implying other people can't do that stuff because of their socio-economic status, that has nothing to do with the point being made.

In a world where all those things can be done, neither the federal or state governments have a valid excuse to deny anyone who can vote the right to do so. It doesn't matter if that person shows up one second before the polls close with no prior registration history in their entire life. If they're a US citizen with the eligibility to vote, it shouldn't be difficult to do so.

It's already been explained why the problem exists. Try and keep up.

All I've read are excuses. We're not inventing space travel here. We don't even need to re-invent anything; other nations have laid the groundwork already.

Automatic Registration.
Permanent Voter Roll Database.
Voter ID Card (temporary ones can be printed on-site).

This isn't difficult.

[93henfan]

When we develop a foolproof anti-fraud system to go along with all of that, I’m down!

[AZGrizFan]

It's already been explained why the problem exists. Try and keep up.

All I've read are excuses. We're not inventing space travel here. We don't even need to re-invent anything; other nations have laid the groundwork already.

Automatic Registration.
Permanent Voter Roll Database.
Voter ID Card (temporary ones can be printed on-site).

This isn't difficult.

Dude. Nobody said it's difficult. If the parties WANTED it, it would happen in a week. It's NOT about an inability to accomplish...it's a lack of DESIRE to accomplish...

[93henfan]

By the way, if we really ever nailed down the authentication, why not let people vote via internet?

After all, they let me commit billions of your taxpayer funds with my digital signature, based on my CAC’s PKI credentials. I eventually have to wet sign, but not to start the funds flowing and the work starting.

[Ibanez]

By the way, if we really ever nailed down the authentication, why not let people vote via internet?

After all, they let me commit billions of your taxpayer funds with my digital signature, based on my CAC’s PKI credentials. I eventually have to wet sign, but not to start the funds flowing and the work starting.

It’s coming. 2 factor authentication should be the standard. The tech exists for physical and mobile security. We shouldn’t have a difficult time doing this for ejections.

Fingerprints, eye scans, facial recognition, pulses should be in addition to a card that when scanned ensures you’re local eligibility. Or something like that.

But- collecting and storing that sort of biometric data is sensitive and I understand why some would be against it.

But like someone up there said- it’s a matter of politicians executing this plan instead of taking for or against it.

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[Ibanez]

..

[CID1990]

Pretty amazing that in a world where information travels in an instant, where people carry digital wallets and bank online, where the IRS encourages the use of tax-return programs, and you can order your state IDs through the internet...the "leader of the free world" can't find a way to track who's eligible to vote.

Because somebody resists making it easy to do so, at every turn, Treep


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[Col Hogan]

It's already been explained why the problem exists. Try and keep up.

All I've read are excuses. We're not inventing space travel here. We don't even need to re-invent anything; other nations have laid the groundwork already.

Automatic Registration.
Permanent Voter Roll Database.
Voter ID Card (temporary ones can be printed on-site).

This isn't difficult.

Who is going to do this? Which agency will be responsible???

There is no federal agency responsible for voter registration...it’s one of those responsibilities left to the states in the Constitution (I know, that old crappy document written in the old times by a bunch of old white guys )

Each state has its own requirements, so the first step really is to reinvent the wheel...you can’t say “other countries do it” because those countries only have a federal-type system...

So, get all the states to standardize...or take the responsibilities away from the states and set up a federal voter registration agency...

Good luck...

[∞∞∞]

All I've read are excuses. We're not inventing space travel here. We don't even need to re-invent anything; other nations have laid the groundwork already.

Automatic Registration.
Permanent Voter Roll Database.
Voter ID Card (temporary ones can be printed on-site).

This isn't difficult.

Who is going to do this? Which agency will be responsible???

There is no federal agency responsible for voter registration...it’s one of those responsibilities left to the states in the Constitution (I know, that old crappy document written in the old times by a bunch of old white guys )

Each state has its own requirements, so the first step really is to reinvent the wheel...you can’t say “other countries do it” because those countries only have a federal-type system...

So, get all the states to standardize...or take the responsibilities away from the states and set up a federal voter registration agency...

Good luck...

If thousands of jurisdictions can work together on a nationwide criminal information database (invented in 1967 btw), 50 states can certainly work together on a voter roll database.

Just assign maintenance to a federal agency and be done with it.

AZ said it first...it just takes the will to do it. Anything else is an excuse.

[Col Hogan]

Who is going to do this? Which agency will be responsible???

There is no federal agency responsible for voter registration...it’s one of those responsibilities left to the states in the Constitution (I know, that old crappy document written in the old times by a bunch of old white guys )

Each state has its own requirements, so the first step really is to reinvent the wheel...you can’t say “other countries do it” because those countries only have a federal-type system...

So, get all the states to standardize...or take the responsibilities away from the states and set up a federal voter registration agency...

Good luck...

If thousands of jurisdictions can work together on a nationwide criminal information database (invented in 1967 btw), 50 states can certainly work together on a voter roll database.

Just assign maintenance to a federal agency and be done with it.

AZ said it first...it just takes the will to do it. Anything else is an excuse.

Then I assume you are on it...as I said, good luck...keep us informed...