Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

[kalm]

If you took Sanders away as the baseline, Clinton would have been left of most (at the time). I'm pretty sure she consistently rated as one of the most progressive Senators - she wanted to raise the minimum wage to $12, have the US be 1/3 on renewable energy in two terms, advocated for 3-months paid family leave for all parents, wanted higher taxes for the rich, and had a sensible plan to reduce student loans/college costs.

She was certainly pro-Wall Street, but even more pro-Unions.

What Hillary talked about and proposed are completely different from what she actually did. Actions are a better indicator of ideology than Words and in Hilary's case her sparse accomplishments show her to be a neo-conservative, corporate opportunist not a progressive.

Yep. Which is why I compared her to Paul. Rhetorically one thing but a slave to the establishment at the expense of the average guy when the rubber hits the road.

[CAA Flagship]

What Hillary talked about and proposed are completely different from what she actually did. Actions are a better indicator of ideology than Words and in Hilary's case her sparse accomplishments show her to be a neo-conservative, corporate opportunist not a progressive.

Yep. Which is why I compared her to Paul. Rhetorically one thing but a slave to the establishment at the expense of the average guy when the rubber hits the road.

I don't have a strong opinion on this matter but....
Wanting and pushing for one thing and compromising on the best realistic alternative isn't necessarily being "a slave to the establishment", is it? Does any Senator ever get to vote on exactly what he/she wants?

[kalm]

Yep. Which is why I compared her to Paul. Rhetorically one thing but a slave to the establishment at the expense of the average guy when the rubber hits the road.

I don't have a strong opinion on this matter but....
Wanting and pushing for one thing and compromising on the best realistic alternative isn't necessarily being "a slave to the establishment", is it? Does any Senator ever get to vote on exactly what he/she wants?

When the compromise always favors the establishment, yes....yes it is.

You’d make a fine politician.

[CID1990]

That may well be true. I don't have to agree with his motivations (what ever they are)

But this is an experiment that needs trying - because we are going to be eaten by China within our lifetimes if we don't radically change our trade relationship with them - and if we enjoy even a modicum of success- even transitory - it may well earn us some trade allies in the EU and down under (which is what we must have to counter China)

Sinologists at State are just like every other "ologist" at State - they speak softly and faint at the sight of big sticks

China has significant economic weaknesses, one being the huge debt load on its state-owned enterprises. China is trying to export its way to prosperity — sound familiar? — and it has a looming demographic problem that will dwarf ours. The problem is not being “eaten” economically by China, like people 40 years ago said we’d be “eaten” by Japan (and look how that turned out), but that we need a coordinated plan that addresses military and geopolitical issues as well as trade.

Careful thinking China is going to go the way of Japan - their autocratic approach will allow them to sidestep many of the issues the Japanese faced - Xi not have to worry about reelection is one of them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnStOnge]

Careful thinking China is going to go the way of Japan - their autocratic approach will allow them to sidestep many of the issues the Japanese faced - Xi not have to worry about reelection is one of them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since we disagree a lot I must say that I completely agree with you on that one.

[Ivytalk]

China has significant economic weaknesses, one being the huge debt load on its state-owned enterprises. China is trying to export its way to prosperity — sound familiar? — and it has a looming demographic problem that will dwarf ours. The problem is not being “eaten” economically by China, like people 40 years ago said we’d be “eaten” by Japan (and look how that turned out), but that we need a coordinated plan that addresses military and geopolitical issues as well as trade.

Careful thinking China is going to go the way of Japan - their autocratic approach will allow them to sidestep many of the issues the Japanese faced - Xi not have to worry about reelection is one of them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That wasn’t my point. The Japanese political system was nothing like China’s. My point is that the henny-pennys who are wailing about the inevitability of China are overlooking some weaknesses in its system.

[SDHornet]

If you took Sanders away as the baseline, Clinton would have been left of most (at the time). I'm pretty sure she consistently rated as one of the most progressive Senators - she wanted to raise the minimum wage to $12, have the US be 1/3 on renewable energy in two terms, advocated for 3-months paid family leave for all parents, wanted higher taxes for the rich, and had a sensible plan to reduce student loans/college costs.

She was certainly pro-Wall Street, but even more pro-Unions.

What Hillary talked about and proposed are completely different from what she actually did. Actions are a better indicator of ideology than Words and in Hilary's case her sparse accomplishments show her to be a neo-conservative, corporate opportunist not a progressive.

To be fair to Trip, hillary pretended to be a progressive in public (looks like it worked on him), but in private she had other views...or something along those lines...

[kalm]

What Hillary talked about and proposed are completely different from what she actually did. Actions are a better indicator of ideology than Words and in Hilary's case her sparse accomplishments show her to be a neo-conservative, corporate opportunist not a progressive.

To be fair to Trip, hillary pretended to be a progressive in public (looks like it worked on him), but in private she had other views...or something along those lines...

[CID1990]

Careful thinking China is going to go the way of Japan - their autocratic approach will allow them to sidestep many of the issues the Japanese faced - Xi not have to worry about reelection is one of them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That wasn’t my point. The Japanese political system was nothing like China’s. My point is that the henny-pennys who are wailing about the inevitability of China are overlooking some weaknesses in its system.

I don't think they are overlooking China's weaknesses - I know I'm not - I just think that China's weaknesses (like their coastal wealth/interior poverty demographics) are not going to have nearly the limiting effects that they have historically had on other economies. Believe me- I fully comprehend their flaws, I just think that we have a fatal tendency to view those flaws through the lens of hiw they would affect a traditional Western-style mixed economy.

We also need to acknowledge the fact that we are not going to war with China over anything short of an actual invasion of our own country - which means that where China falls short being able to coerce their neighbors economically, they will be able to enforce or deny their own commercial lanes to their advantage, with impunity.

The only way to control China is with economic measures in cooperation with as many allies as we can get - and that begins with the EU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[houndawg]

Walk softly and carry a big stick?

NYC bankers?

Teddy Roosevelt is rolling over....

If you took Sanders away as the baseline, Clinton would have been left of most (at the time). I'm pretty sure she consistently rated as one of the most progressive Senators - she wanted to raise the minimum wage to $12, have the US be 1/3 on renewable energy in two terms, advocated for 3-months paid family leave for all parents, wanted higher taxes for the rich, and had a sensible plan to reduce student loans/college costs.

She was certainly pro-Wall Street, but even more pro-Unions.

She also voted for every pipeline and bombing campaign she could. Just sayin

[houndawg]

What Hillary talked about and proposed are completely different from what she actually did. Actions are a better indicator of ideology than Words and in Hilary's case her sparse accomplishments show her to be a neo-conservative, corporate opportunist not a progressive.

Yep. Which is why I compared her to Paul. Rhetorically one thing but a slave to the establishment at the expense of the average guy when the rubber hits the road.

libertarians and house cats. Completely dependent on others while completely convinced of their independence.

[houndawg]

That wasn’t my point. The Japanese political system was nothing like China’s. My point is that the henny-pennys who are wailing about the inevitability of China are overlooking some weaknesses in its system.

I don't think they are overlooking China's weaknesses - I know I'm not - I just think that China's weaknesses (like their coastal wealth/interior poverty demographics) are not going to have nearly the limiting effects that they have historically had on other economies. Believe me- I fully comprehend their flaws, I just think that we have a fatal tendency to view those flaws through the lens of hiw they would affect a traditional Western-style mixed economy.

We also need to acknowledge the fact that we are not going to war with China over anything short of an actual invasion of our own country - which means that where China falls short being able to coerce their neighbors economically, they will be able to enforce or deny their own commercial lanes to their advantage, with impunity.

The only way to control China is with economic measures in cooperation with as many allies as we can get - and that begins with the EU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lets hope the EU doesn't say: "Eff you, we'll wait for the Silk Road to reopen.."

[kalm]

Yep. Which is why I compared her to Paul. Rhetorically one thing but a slave to the establishment at the expense of the average guy when the rubber hits the road.

libertarians and house cats. Completely dependent on others while completely convinced of their independence.

[CID1990]

I don't think they are overlooking China's weaknesses - I know I'm not - I just think that China's weaknesses (like their coastal wealth/interior poverty demographics) are not going to have nearly the limiting effects that they have historically had on other economies. Believe me- I fully comprehend their flaws, I just think that we have a fatal tendency to view those flaws through the lens of hiw they would affect a traditional Western-style mixed economy.

We also need to acknowledge the fact that we are not going to war with China over anything short of an actual invasion of our own country - which means that where China falls short being able to coerce their neighbors economically, they will be able to enforce or deny their own commercial lanes to their advantage, with impunity.

The only way to control China is with economic measures in cooperation with as many allies as we can get - and that begins with the EU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lets hope the EU doesn't say: "Eff you, we'll wait for the Silk Road to reopen.."

It is pretty obvious you don't read whole threads

the EU's own recent statement refutes your wishful thinking


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CAA Flagship]

Yep. Which is why I compared her to Paul. Rhetorically one thing but a slave to the establishment at the expense of the average guy when the rubber hits the road.

libertarians and house cats. Completely dependent on others while completely convinced of their independence.

[houndawg]

Lets hope the EU doesn't say: "Eff you, we'll wait for the Silk Road to reopen.."

It is pretty obvious you don't read whole threads

the EU's own recent statement refutes your wishful thinking


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They made a statement?

Well shit that changes everything.

[BDKJMU]

If you took Sanders away as the baseline, Clinton would have been left of most (at the time). I'm pretty sure she consistently rated as one of the most progressive Senators - she wanted to raise the minimum wage to $12, have the US be 1/3 on renewable energy in two terms, advocated for 3-months paid family leave for all parents, wanted higher taxes for the rich, and had a sensible plan to reduce student loans/college costs.

She was certainly pro-Wall Street, but even more pro-Unions.

She also voted for every pipeline and bombing campaign she could. Just sayin

Clinton comes out against Keystone XL pipeline
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-enviro ... eystone-xl
Hillary Clinton: Arctic Drilling 'Not Worth The Risk'
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... sk/445203/

[houndawg]

She also voted for every pipeline and bombing campaign she could. Just sayin

Clinton comes out against Keystone XL pipeline
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-enviro ... eystone-xl
Hillary Clinton: Arctic Drilling 'Not Worth The Risk'
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... sk/445203/

She was for it before she was against it.

[CAA Flagship]

Trump sends out new threats on Chinese tariffs.
More than 1000 Chinese stocks drop more than 10%. Shanghai Index at 2 year low.

Shanghai Index now at 4 year low.

[Chizzang]

This Tariff thing has been the most fascinating aspect of the Trump presidency
and that's saying something because fascinating is about the nicest word you'll hear
when one describes the Trump presidency

That said:
Trump has run a few businesses into the ground that were import / foreign worker based businesses
So he has a pretty interesting insight into Chinese factory import laws and tariffs

I think he knew based on his real-time knowledge that things were screwed up
Even though every college economist said otherwise / the "Nothing ca be done" crowd
They have been getting more and more quiet as this thing begins to reveal itself globally

We were financing the globe and nothing could be done...
Really?

[AZGrizFan]

This Tariff thing has been the most fascinating aspect of the Trump presidency
and that's saying something because fascinating is about the nicest word you'll hear
when one describes the Trump presidency

That said:
Trump has run a few businesses into the ground that were import / foreign worker based businesses
So he has a pretty interesting insight into Chinese factory import laws and tariffs

I think he knew based on his real-time knowledge that things were screwed up
Even though every college economist said otherwise / the "Nothing ca be done" crowd
They have been getting more and more quiet as this thing begins to reveal itself globally

We were financing the globe and nothing could be done...
Really?

[CAA Flagship]

Still gotta give this some time to see if it works. Some sort of retaliation was necessary. Whether this tactic works or not is still undetermined. And the clock is ticking because there is a finite time limit to continue the pressure. But I'm sure the admin knows our position of strength and other countries position of weakness and have projected this out with a decent amount of success probability.

FWIW, Obama never had this position of strength to do anything remotely close to this. He could have in 2014 or 2015 if he didn't slow-play the economy like he did.

[GannonFan]

This Tariff thing has been the most fascinating aspect of the Trump presidency
and that's saying something because fascinating is about the nicest word you'll hear
when one describes the Trump presidency

That said:
Trump has run a few businesses into the ground that were import / foreign worker based businesses
So he has a pretty interesting insight into Chinese factory import laws and tariffs

I think he knew based on his real-time knowledge that things were screwed up
Even though every college economist said otherwise / the "Nothing ca be done" crowd
They have been getting more and more quiet as this thing begins to reveal itself globally

We were financing the globe and nothing could be done...
Really?

I agree, it's an interesting experiment, even if it had to be done with Trump at the wheel. I'm a free-trader generally speaking, but obviously the system can be improved (especially from the Chinese side of things) and this is an interesting way of going about it. Fascinating stuff.

[CID1990]

Anyone who said this wouldn't move China (and others) was either ignorant or just being anti Trump by default

but the damage to China's markets was always going to be the first effect

the adverse effects to our own industries are going to be less obvious and slower to reveal themselves

but I am sure CNN will point them out to us posthaste


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ibanez]

Tarrif hearings are beginning.

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/en ... hedule.pdf

Here's a small sample of who is in D.C. this week:
1. Tire Retread and Repair Information Bureau
2. Fitbit
3. The American Bridal Prom Industry Association Only in America is this a thing
4. Juice Products Association
5. American Keg Company - a company that supports the tariffs but had lay off 1/3 of its workforce b/c of them
6. Dell Technologies
7. American Lawn Mower Co.