How will Donald Trump change politics and the presidency?

[93henfan]

This is so generalized it’s comical.

I guarandamntee you my parents (boomers) worked harder than you ever will.

My Boomer Dad is 68, suffering from cancer and chemo which leaves him nauseous, exhausted and 70lbs leaner than he was in December - Still manages to work about 3-4 days a week. And he doesn't sit behind a desk all day - he's either appraising real estate or selling commercial and industrial properties.

My dad went straight to work for Playtex after graduating high school. Started on the glove line, stripping hot gloves from molds and wearing the burns and calluses to prove it. Progressed to warehousing and foreman positions. Drafted to serve in the Army in Vietnam at the height of the war 68/69. Came back to Playtex. Got his pink slip after 40 years when Playtex decided to outsource his job to Malaysia, after he trained the Malaysian management team how to run his soon to be relocated warehouse. That’s a 40 year kick to the nuts. Then he worked another 10 years for peanuts running the warehousing operations for a small NIB/NISH contractor. Scrimped pennies to get me and my sister through college at UD. Dropped my mom off each day at Dover AFB for her 40+ year career as a supply clerk (retired as a GS-4). Their combined income just before my dad got punted at Playtex was under $50k/yr and that was this millennium. So cry me a river.

But apparently his life was a cakewalk to Trip.

[CAA Flagship]

1 of these does not deserve the remainder.

Exactly my point. The more selective colleges generally are going to be more expensive.

Not sure what the point is. Are you saying it is wrong for the selective colleges to be more expensive?

[kalm]

Do what exactly? A guaranteed job with enough guaranteed money to buy the guaranteed house you want that's a walk down the street from that job so that you don't have to set the alarm and wake up early? And you get that job right out of college, which someone else pays for, and you get to keep that job, regardless of performance, for your working life, and then you can retire with full salary and full benefits until you die? And everyone who wants that gets that? How exactly does that happen?

You're not a minority (as far as I know), you're not a woman (as far as I know), and you're not an immigrant (again, as far as I know). When we talk about leveling the playing field it's mainly to get those previously discriminated classes (and I'm sure there are others, it's not an exhaustive list) to no longer be discriminated against. But even then, the right to a certain outcome is never going to be guaranteed. Even when we institute a national health system, which will happen in the next 10-30 years, it's still going to be like England's much vaunted NHS - everyone will be guaranteed the same basic health care, and then those with means (i.e. money) will go outside the system for better care when they need to.

You talk as if your generation is put down and discriminated against because you have to enter the workforce and, well, work. And it's not been super duper easy. Get over it. If you made a mistake and are buried in student debt because you picked a really expensive college then blame your parents for not steering you straight and picky the equally good college that was half the cost. I'm not opposed to some version of student debt relief, but it's going to be complicated and it's not going to happen overnight so start planning to deal with it. Can't find a job? Be prepared to compromise - be prepared to move, be prepared to commute, be prepared to take something a little outside of your field if need be.

Adapt. Improvise. Good words to live by.

You're really not getting it. Your generation's political policies, they way you've voted the last 30 years, the way you've bought properties and increased prices, the way you increased educational costs, the way you've outsourced jobs, the way you've paid people less as you grew into positions of power, the way you've given out less benefits, the way you've borrowed to secure financial security in your twilight years...it's added up. Millennials actually work a little more than Gen X (and way more than Boomers)...to make ends meat.

It's not China, Europe, Mexico or Canada fucking America over. It's Americans fucking over Americans.

Enjoy it while it lasts though. When you have tens of millions of people which have grievances, maybe you should look at why that is instead of simply labeling them lazy.

To the original question, Trump's legacy is this: exposing the toxicity of conservative polices.

There's a bunch of truth here. Since we're applying brush strokes, the Boomers and Gen X'ers are greedy, irresponsible generations. I know a ton of millenials and late Gen X'ers who live humbly and work their asses off.

The other disconnect is that when it comes to things like college tuition and healthcare costs, it's not as though the exorbitant fees go nowhere. To use Dylan Ratigan's term, they're "extractionary", serving very little advancement to the masses while transferring wealth and control of resources upward.

Crony capitalism is just as bad as socialism.

[∞∞∞]

Gen X is fine. I paint in broad strokes, but obviously there are exceptions.

However, there is no doubt the policies Boomers have voted into place made America worse off - fiscally - than when they came into positions of power. And now towards their twilight years of authority, they're trying to regress America in a social manner as well.

[Ibanez]

My Boomer Dad is 68, suffering from cancer and chemo which leaves him nauseous, exhausted and 70lbs leaner than he was in December - Still manages to work about 3-4 days a week. And he doesn't sit behind a desk all day - he's either appraising real estate or selling commercial and industrial properties.

My dad went straight to work for Playtex after graduating high school. Started on the glove line, stripping hot gloves from molds and wearing the burns and calluses to prove it. Progressed to warehousing and foreman positions. Drafted to serve in the Army in Vietnam at the height of the war 68/69. Came back to Playtex. Got his pink slip after 40 years when Playtex decided to outsource his job to Malaysia, after he trained the Malaysian management team how to run his soon to be relocated warehouse. That’s a 40 year kick to the nuts. Then he worked another 10 years for peanuts running the warehousing operations for a small NIB/NISH contractor. Scrimped pennies to get me and my sister through college at UD. Dropped my mom off each day at Dover AFB for her 40+ year career as a supply clerk (retired as a GS-4). Their combined income just before my dad got punted at Playtex was under $50k/yr and that was this millennium. So cry me a river.

But apparently his life was a cakewalk to Trip.

God he had it easy.

[93henfan]

God he had it easy.

Well, certainly easier than these poor Millenials.

[bluehenbillk]

Millennials work harder than Baby Boomers or Gen X?? I fall into the Gen X category & will just have to disagree with that statement -= believe me - I've interviewed dozens if not hundreds of millennials in my career. I don't disagree at all with college costs - hey I have two kids that are going to college in the future & I cringe looking at those costs. I bank $ away in TAP accounts for both but it won't be near enough to cover the full cost.

Regarding health care or benefits, when someone comes up with a better solution I'm sure most people will listen. ObamaCare was half a start but it only covered a minority of workers, it did nothing for employer-sponsored plans which is what the majority of people have & it did not slow down the rising costs. Universal healthcare sounds like a butterface, it sounds great, until you see the price tag and what that price tag covers & wouldn't cover.

[Ibanez]

God he had it easy.

Well, certainly easier than these poor Millenials.

You're goddamn right!

[CID1990]

We need student loan forgiveness for government loans that predictably drive up the cost of college ... making government loans necessary for college

Its a case study in unintended (yet predictable) consequences




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ibanez]

Millennials work harder than Baby Boomers or Gen X?? I fall into the Gen X category & will just have to disagree with that statement -= believe me - I've interviewed dozens if not hundreds of millennials in my career. I don't disagree at all with college costs - hey I have two kids that are going to college in the future & I cringe looking at those costs. I bank $ away in TAP accounts for both but it won't be near enough to cover the full cost.

Regarding health care or benefits, when someone comes up with a better solution I'm sure most people will listen. ObamaCare was half a start but it only covered a minority of workers, it did nothing for employer-sponsored plans which is what the majority of people have & it did not slow down the rising costs. Universal healthcare sounds like a butterface, it sounds great, until you see the price tag and what that price tag covers & wouldn't cover.

You're generalizing as well.

- Elder Millennial

[Ibanez]

We need student loan forgiveness for government loans that predictably drive up the cost of college ... making government loans necessary for college

Its a case study in unintended (yet predictable) consequences




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a $13T industry (something like that). Forgiveness and reform.

[UNI88]

We need student loan forgiveness for government loans that predictably drive up the cost of college ... making government loans necessary for college

Its a case study in unintended (yet predictable) consequences

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please help me, I'm just a poor directional school grad. Is it irony that Trip, the big-government socialist, is bemoaning the cost of education when it was government involvement in student loans that drove up the cost of education?

[∞∞∞]

We need student loan forgiveness for government loans that predictably drive up the cost of college ... making government loans necessary for college

Its a case study in unintended (yet predictable) consequences

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please help me, I'm just a poor directional school grad. Is it irony that Trip, the big-government socialist, is bemoaning the cost of education when it was government involvement in student loans that drove up the cost of education?

Just stop. It's not an us vs. them thing...the government is an extension of its society.

As Americans, its our duty to take care of this nation and each other, in the present and for the future. We need to stop taking advantage of programs and fucking each other over just because we can.

[UNI88]

Please help me, I'm just a poor directional school grad. Is it irony that Trip, the big-government socialist, is bemoaning the cost of education when it was government involvement in student loans that drove up the cost of education?

Just stop. It's not an us vs. them thing...the government is an extension of its society.

As Americans, its our duty to take care of this nation and each other, in the present and for the future. We need to stop taking advantage of programs and **** each other over just because we can.

But it wasn't just the for-profit schools that took advantage of the situation and fleeced students. The ivory tower academic institutions, those beacons of liberalism, also jumped on the opportunity. The best example of a school that is at least putting up something of a fight against this trend is Purdue under Mitch Daniels.

I love your idealism Trip but CID's comment about unintended consequences is spot on. The government tends to fvck up (i.e. make it less efficient and more expensive) what it gets involved in.

[UNI88]

The Boomers are an interesting generation. VW microbus driving hippies pushing love in the 60's to BMW driving yuppies pushing greed in the 80's.

[∞∞∞]

Just stop. It's not an us vs. them thing...the government is an extension of its society.

As Americans, its our duty to take care of this nation and each other, in the present and for the future. We need to stop taking advantage of programs and **** each other over just because we can.

But it wasn't just the for-profit schools that took advantage of the situation and fleeced students. The ivory tower academic institutions, those beacons of liberalism, also jumped on the opportunity. The best example of a school that is at least putting up something of a fight against this trend is Purdue under Mitch Daniels.

I love your idealism Trip but CID's comment about unintended consequences is spot on. The government tends to fvck up (i.e. make it less efficient and more expensive) what it gets involved in.

I don't disagree, but JFK was spot on in his famous phrase — "ask what you can do for your country."

-When a manager makes 150K and gets 2% of his projects' profits, and instead of paying that extra $5000 an employee could really do with, he pockets the savings. This hurts America.
-When a locality agrees to a time & material NTE contract, the contractors work slowly to get as close to the limit instead of saving the community money to invest elsewhere. This hurts America.
-When someone does a good job but gets stiffed because they can't afford lawyers. This hurts America.
-And the examples go on and on and on.

I know not everyone is some awful person, but even good people need to look at their day-to-day lives and see how they can improve this nation...myself included.

Anyways, idealism gets me through the day. It's better than the alternate.

[kalm]

The Boomers are an interesting generation. VW microbus driving hippies pushing love in the 60's to BMW driving yuppies pushing greed in the 80's.

And that 80’s and 90’s greed is what eventually screwed 93hens dad.

[JohnStOnge]

Will congress use legislation to reign in executive power?
Will we see more celebrities and non-career politicians run for president?
Will political parties give their elites and leaders (e.g. "superdelegates") more power to choose the nominee?
Will the norms or strategies of elections and campaigns change?

I think the biggest long term impact will be to eliminate any hope that the Republican Party can hang on over time in the face of changing demographics. Even if the Democrats don't take control of at least one House of Congress in 2018 and even if Trump hangs on for two terms we have a cult situation. To the extent that the Republicans are in control it's because a bunch of frothing at the mouth Trump cultists are supporting that. What is the Republican Party going to do when he is gone, one way or another, and the cult is no longer a factor?

Then the Trump cult will no longer be a factor and the Republicans will have shown themselves to be principle-free pariahs from the standpoint of most rational people in the country.

[UNI88]

But it wasn't just the for-profit schools that took advantage of the situation and fleeced students. The ivory tower academic institutions, those beacons of liberalism, also jumped on the opportunity. The best example of a school that is at least putting up something of a fight against this trend is Purdue under Mitch Daniels.

I love your idealism Trip but CID's comment about unintended consequences is spot on. The government tends to fvck up (i.e. make it less efficient and more expensive) what it gets involved in.

I don't disagree, but JFK was spot on in his famous phrase — "ask what you can do for your country."

-When a manager makes 150K and gets 2% of his projects' profits, and instead of paying that extra $5000 an employee could really do with, he pockets the savings. This hurts America.
-When a locality agrees to a time & material NTE contract, the contractors and unions work slowly to get as close to the limit instead of saving the community money to invest elsewhere. This hurts America.
-When someone does a good job but gets stiffed because they can't afford lawyers. This hurts America.
-And the examples go on and on and on.

I know not everyone is some awful person, but even good people need to look at their day-to-day lives and see how they can improve this nation...myself included.

Anyways, idealism gets me through the day. It's better than the alternate.

I look at JFK the way Kalm looks at Reagan - i.e. he was overrated - but I do think that quote is a great one. Unfortunately I also think that JFK would be rolling over in his grave at today's Democratic Party. They want to flip the quote into “ask not what you can do for your country —ask what your country can do for you.” Too many people (on both sides of the aisle) are focused on helping themselves and their friends and supporters.

And if you really want to made a difference, you're going to need people like Ganny on your side. He's a moderate independent who voted for Obama. You're not going to have enough of a majority to make significant changes without centrists in your corner and you're not going to get them in your corner if you don't compromise. So I would give his responses a little more consideration.

[∞∞∞]

Gannon is a centrist like Ron Paul is a libertarian.

Someone like Ibanez, or even 93, are closer to centrists than Gannon.

[UNI88]

Gannon is a centrist like Ron Paul is a libertarian.

Someone like Ibanez, or even 93, are closer to centrists than Gannon.

I would say that all 3 are centrists.

[css75]

Don't worry, we'll do something about it.

But people like Bluehen and Gannon won't like it because it'll create an equal playing field and make America a fairer nation. They've been milking other Americans for way too long.

Lowering income one step at a time. You certainly want us to be Venezuela, but we are equally broke.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[css75]

I agree with most of GF's big ink spillage, but there's one thing I kind of have to take Trip's side on, and that's college costs.

Yes, you can go to a college that has two compass directions in it's name where the average freshman SAT is south of 1000 and save some money. But you're still going to pay an amount that's not easily affordable for most families. You're not going to be able to study engineering like Trip did or a lot of STEM fields. Your alma mater might be looked down upon by grad school admissions. You might not have as many people with connections where you can get internships and co-ops.

There's just no comparison to what college costs today compared to what the boomers and Gen X paid even after adjusting for inflation. My maternal grandmother never worked a day in her life and her dad had no college education and they payed for the college education of two kids and some private school education as well.

And there are a lot of millenials that make very bad college choices, but I'm seeing every other week articles lamenting the decline of the humanities and the transformation of four-year schools into vocational training, as well as articles about colleges closing from declining enrollment.

You must be one who college did not benefit, from the lack of intellect of your posts your career path should probably be manual labor.

Not every one needs college,there are very good trade schools, online schools that do not cost as much as the Universities.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[css75]

You're really not getting it. Your generation's political policies, they way you've voted the last 30 years, the way you've bought properties and increased prices, the way you increased educational costs, the way you've outsourced jobs, the way you've paid people less as you grew into positions of power, the way you've given out less benefits, the way you've borrowed to secure financial security in your twilight years...it's added up. Millennials actually work a little more than Gen X (and way more than Boomers)...to make ends meat.

It's not China, Europe, Mexico or Canada **** America over. It's Americans **** over Americans.

Enjoy it while it lasts though. When you have tens of millions of people which have grievances, maybe you should look at why that is instead of simply labeling them lazy.

To the original question, Trump's legacy is this: exposing the toxicity of conservative polices.

This is so generalized it’s comical.

I guarandamntee you my parents (boomers) worked harder than you ever will.

Trip you really should stop on this thread. You are getting beat down, and you obviously are not learning a thing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CAA Flagship]

When a manager makes 150K and gets 2% of his projects' profits, and instead of paying that extra $5000 an employee could really do with, he pockets the savings. This hurts America.

Trip, that guy was likely in your position at one time and paid his dues. He worked his way up and was able to negotiate that sort of compensation. Maybe he worked in your position at your age while raising a family, earning his license, and working on his Masters at the same time. Maybe he sacrificed a lot more than you are doing now and this is his reward. Maybe, maybe not. But I know a lot of people that worked their asses off at your age and are now finally reaping the rewards.

America's wealth comes from the efforts of people striving for success. Take away their incentive with badmouthing success and you take away the wealth that helps us take care of the needy.
- Thomas Peterffy