Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

[93henfan]

Agree with both of you. As a "fan" of economic policy decisions, I find this interesting.
There are not many things that we can do to reverse the current trade practices, and no true "politician" would do this. So many "experts" say we should work with other countries to gang up on China. But, 1) we have been doing that with little success, and 2) we also have problems with the very countries that we would team up with against China.

So what happens from here?
1. We win and get more favorable trade deals.
2. We reverse the tariffs and go back to pre-2018 trade environment.
3. We adapt to new shifts in trade with other countries as China, and others, look to circumvent the direct trading with us.

We are already seeing #3. China is not buying our soy and is turning to South America. Then we are backfilling South America as they are buying from us. It's a pain in the ass to go in a different direction, but we have the resources to do it.

You're buying Trump's bullshit.

No, he's speaking facts rather than emotion (like you).

[JohnStOnge]

You're buying Trump's bullshit.

No, he's speaking facts rather than emotion (like you).

Seriously? You REALLY think Trump is "speaking facts?" Do you seriously think he EVER does that?

[93henfan]

No, he's speaking facts rather than emotion (like you).

Seriously? You REALLY think Trump is "speaking facts?" Do you seriously think he EVER does that?

Flaggy is speaking facts, dipshit.

[CID1990]

China has a totalitarian government. That gives it the ultimate advantage in a situation like this. Its leaders can take a lot more than American leaders can without consequences.

Also, obviously, China is not the one playing the tariffs. Americans are.

Thanks, Captain Obvious

nobody knew China has the advantage of being a totalitarian state

that fact is fully weighed into the equation when we ask, "will this work?"... As repressive as they are, the leadership still needs to retain power, and if Xi handles this poorly there will still be political consequences that will affect policy

your only opposition here is solely because it is Trump that is trying it- regardless of the fact that it needs to be tried - right now


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[Chizzang]

All we can hope is that "smart people" are learning something about global economics right now...
I say that with a whisper of hope

Look Bozo the clown just landed a forward Aerial Cartwheel with a pike
Give the buffoon some credit - he deserves it

[Ivytalk]

All we can hope is that "smart people" are learning something about global economics right now...
I say that with a whisper of hope

Look Bozo the clown just landed a forward Aerial Cartwheel with a pike
Give the buffoon some credit - he deserves it

Wait until the percentages start going up. It’s just a matter of time before it becomes a worse Game of Chicken.

[CAA Flagship]

All we can hope is that "smart people" are learning something about global economics right now...
I say that with a whisper of hope

Look Bozo the clown just landed a forward Aerial Cartwheel with a pike
Give the buffoon some credit - he deserves it

I don't think he "landed" it yet. At this point in time, he only deserves credit for attempting a maneuver with a high degree of difficulty.

Right now, he is upside down in the air in a blur of orange.

[mainejeff]

All we can hope is that "smart people" are learning something about global economics right now...
I say that with a whisper of hope

Look Bozo the clown just landed a forward Aerial Cartwheel with a pike
Give the buffoon some credit - he deserves it

I don't think he "landed" it yet. At this point in time, he only deserves credit for attempting a maneuver with a high degree of difficulty.

Right now, he is upside down in the air in a blur of orange.

[AZGrizFan]

No, he's speaking facts rather than emotion (like you).

Seriously? You REALLY think Trump is "speaking facts?" Do you seriously think he EVER does that?

Histrionics alert....histrionics alert....JSO just got triggered. Holy shit.

[Chizzang]

Seriously? You REALLY think Trump is "speaking facts?" Do you seriously think he EVER does that?

Histrionics alert....histrionics alert....JSO just got triggered. Holy shit.

[CID1990]

All we can hope is that "smart people" are learning something about global economics right now...
I say that with a whisper of hope

Look Bozo the clown just landed a forward Aerial Cartwheel with a pike
Give the buffoon some credit - he deserves it

Wait until the percentages start going up. It’s just a matter of time before it becomes a worse Game of Chicken.

I’m waiting for the mid-game....

That’s where China literally runs out of US goods to tax, and Trump still has several hundreds of billions in the pocket, ready to go

We’ll see just how robust that coastal economy is over there in Shanghai

[Winterborn]

Wait until the percentages start going up. It’s just a matter of time before it becomes a worse Game of Chicken.

I’m waiting for the mid-game....

That’s where China literally runs out of US goods to tax, and Trump still has several hundreds of billions in the pocket, ready to go

We’ll see just how robust that coastal economy is over there in Shanghai

China is already complaining that we have them over a barrel and are not being fair. They really only have two options, either wait Trump out or make a deal.

[CID1990]

I’m waiting for the mid-game....

That’s where China literally runs out of US goods to tax, and Trump still has several hundreds of billions in the pocket, ready to go

We’ll see just how robust that coastal economy is over there in Shanghai

China is already complaining that we have them over a barrel and are not being fair. They really only have two options, either wait Trump out or make a deal.

I think waiting him out is the most likely scenario if he only lasts 4 years.


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[Skjellyfetti]

China also has $1.7 trillion in US debt. That's another tool China could use that I haven't seen much discussion about.

We're essentially borrowing money from China to pay US farmers who are screwed by our tariffs on China.

[JohnStOnge]

I’m waiting for the mid-game....

That’s where China literally runs out of US goods to tax, and Trump still has several hundreds of billions in the pocket, ready to go

We’ll see just how robust that coastal economy is over there in Shanghai

China is already complaining that we have them over a barrel and are not being fair. They really only have two options, either wait Trump out or make a deal.

China may be complaining but we do not have China over a barrel. US consumers have become accustomed to low cost goods from China. They get things for much cheaper than they otherwise would. The reason we have a trade deficit with China is because US consumers benefit from that. A trade war with China is going to increase the cost of living in the United States. And whatever happens in China, the Chinese leadership is not subject to the kind of public accountability that US leadership is subject to. Time, as other posters have suggested, is on their side.

[CID1990]

China also has $1.7 trillion in US debt. That's another tool China could use that I haven't seen much discussion about.

We're essentially borrowing money from China to pay US farmers who are screwed by our tariffs on China.

That's true - and China's economy is somewhat leveraged by the value of that debt

none of this is rocket science

The question is, do we have to irreversibly damage our own economy in order to get China to play fair?

Or, put another way, is US trade policy irretrievably subordinate to China's?

What Trump is doing is about the only way to find out


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[JohnStOnge]

China also has $1.7 trillion in US debt. That's another tool China could use that I haven't seen much discussion about.

We're essentially borrowing money from China to pay US farmers who are screwed by our tariffs on China.

That's true - and China's economy is somewhat leveraged by the value of that debt

none of this is rocket science

The question is, do we have to irreversibly damage our own economy in order to get China to play fair?

Or, put another way, is US trade policy irretrievably subordinate to China's?

What Trump is doing is about the only way to find out

The answer to both questions is "yes" and we don't need for Trump to cause a disaster to find out. We already know. That's why nobody that actually knows what they are doing tried what Trump is trying.

[JohnStOnge]

BTW, let me say that I don't think the China situation is bad to begin with. People in the US are, on balance, better off as a result as what's been going on with trade with China. The idea that we have been getting screwed is nonsense. Trade with China has been GOOD for us.

[CID1990]

BTW, let me say that I don't think the China situation is bad to begin with. People in the US are, on balance, better off as a result as what's been going on with trade with China. The idea that we have been getting screwed is nonsense. Trade with China has been GOOD for us.

Now THAT'S an Orwellian comment if I ever heard one.

Our trade relationship with China has been the prime mover behind the offshoring of jobs for literally decades.

And to remain competitive, American companies have to become more efficient, which means doing more with less workers

As for nobody else trying it - it is political suicide for a card carrying Democrat OR Republican to do. It has everything to do with denying that our trade relationship with China is damaging to American workers. Right now, China's middle class is expanding exponentially and if they start feeling the same pain America's middle class feels now - look out. That's the aim here, and nobody knows if the Chinese middle class will willingly go back to 1985 or not. If they are resilient, then we're finished, and this trade war will fail. But if they aren't willing to tighten their belts, then we could be in for some interesting times

But the good news here (and why those on the left who havent completely lost their minds yet dont see the tariff as the end of the world) is that if China proves resistant to the tariff we can always go back to the status quo ante and continue our march towards serfdom

again, none of this is rocket science (or maybe it is)


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[JohnStOnge]

Our trade relationship with China has been the prime mover behind the offshoring of jobs for literally decades.

And to remain competitive, American companies have to become more efficient, which means doing more with less workers

Some jobs have been lost. Others have been gained. And I'm not seeing a problem with American companies becoming more efficient.

Then there's the big thing: The US cost of living has been lowered as compared to what it otherwise would have been.

I do not agree with the idea that trade with China has been a negative for most people in the United States. That flat screen TV I'm looking at in my hotel room right now would probably cost at least twice as much without it. That's not based on research. It's just a guess. But that's the idea.

[Ivytalk]

BTW, let me say that I don't think the China situation is bad to begin with. People in the US are, on balance, better off as a result as what's been going on with trade with China. The idea that we have been getting screwed is nonsense. Trade with China has been GOOD for us.

Yup, we’ve been flooded with cheap, shoddy Red Chinese goods for years, and our manufacturing sector (textiles, appliances, etc.) has been gutted. Yup, John, it’s been great. And the little buggers steal our intellectual property, but you knew that.

[Chizzang]

BTW, let me say that I don't think the China situation is bad to begin with. People in the US are, on balance, better off as a result as what's been going on with trade with China. The idea that we have been getting screwed is nonsense. Trade with China has been GOOD for us.

Yup, we’ve been flooded with cheap, shoddy Red Chinese goods for years, and our manufacturing sector (textiles, appliances, etc.) has been gutted. Yup, John, it’s been great. And the little buggers steal our intellectual property, but you knew that.

We willingly danced with the devil...
and lost all our intellectual property as a choice
because maximum profit is the sole criteria by which American companies are measured

See:
Wall Street

[SDHornet]

BTW, let me say that I don't think the China situation is bad to begin with. People in the US are, on balance, better off as a result as what's been going on with trade with China. The idea that we have been getting screwed is nonsense. Trade with China has been GOOD for us.

Yup, we’ve been flooded with cheap, shoddy Red Chinese goods for years, and our manufacturing sector (textiles, appliances, etc.) has been gutted. Yup, John, it’s been great. And the little buggers steal our intellectual property, but you knew that.

It's that type of shoddy logic by leftists that resulted in Trump winning the Rust Belt. Yeah, offshoring jobs to China is good for middle class Americans!!!

[CID1990]

Yup, we’ve been flooded with cheap, shoddy Red Chinese goods for years, and our manufacturing sector (textiles, appliances, etc.) has been gutted. Yup, John, it’s been great. And the little buggers steal our intellectual property, but you knew that.

We willingly danced with the devil...
and lost all our intellectual property as a choice
because maximum profit is the sole criteria by which American companies are measured

See:
Wall Street

When you say it, its ironical and sarcastic

when JSO says it he's dead serious


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[kalm]

I certainly have a wait and see approach regarding the tariffs. Certainly they aren't a long term fixture, but it is interesting seeing game theory play out right in front of us regarding short term tariffs and a mini-trade war. I still didn't and would never vote for Trump, but you have to admit, without him in the White House we'd never get a look at how this plays out (and right now, it's playing out in the US's favor).