Does Anyone Disagree With This?

[kalm]

Oldie but a goodie.

I think he's almost 100% right but the truth is, most people don't care enough or are too intellectually lazy and complacent to do anything about it. It's much easier to bitch about the other. As Carlin implies, it's almost like it's by design.

Warning to conservatives...this also sounds similar in many ways to Bernie Sanders.

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[css75]

Certainly has a point. Trump was a backlash to the system he described.


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[kalm]

Certainly has a point. Trump was a backlash to the system he described.


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Agreed.

Ironically, he's also the epitome of the owner class.

[CAA Flagship]

Yes, he tells a lot of truths. But hard work, in the right place and time, still reaps rewards. As long as that exists, the current system is still better than the Bernie Sanders model.

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

[ASUG8]

I agree with most everything he said. The question is what actions do people take to change things? Demonstrations, riots, and protests only get you so far. The guys with the power have the guns, planes, ships, and ammo and would use any and all of them to quell any violent uprising to preserve their own power. We may look down at the near dictatorships that exist in Russia and Iran, but if you pull back the curtain a bit you can see that we aren't really that far apart from them.

[bluehenbillk]

This is largely the reason Trump is President. Enough people got upset with the status quo. People didn't vote for him because the didn't like Obama or because they wanted someone with strong Republican values. People are tired of the Democrats & the Republicans. Both parties mostly reflect the "club" that Carlin is referring to. Now Trump has enough $ to be in that club but wasn't invited & said he'd kick the door in.

[GannonFan]

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

I could see McDonald's raising to the $15 minimum wage - they'll just use a lot less employees. They've already gone to mobile ordering and such so that you can order before you get there and have it already waiting for you. No need to talk to a kid at the counter and hope he types the meal correctly. Raising the minimum wage will do what it's always done - make people feel good that they did it, but it won't mean much to the people getting those wages. There'll be less people getting those wages and the inflationary pressures in the economy will soon render those increases moot anyway. But yay for feeling good!

[GannonFan]

Yes, he tells a lot of truths. But hard work, in the right place and time, still reaps rewards. As long as that exists, the current system is still better than the Bernie Sanders model.

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

I agree with this - I'd still rather have the model that Carlin describes than the Bernie Sanders model. You can still work hard today and advance yourself. Of course it's easier if you already come from wealth, which is the only real privilege that actually matters, but it's still possible. I think we can take the things from the Bernie model that make sense (I'm all in favor of a national health system, even if it's relatively basic) but stick with the system we have now. Nothing will ever replace hard, smart work. Once we stop doing that then we're really screwed.

[93henfan]

Yes, he tells a lot of truths. But hard work, in the right place and time, still reaps rewards. As long as that exists, the current system is still better than the Bernie Sanders model.

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

Speaking of minimum wage, did you see how Amazon is paying for their $15 minimum wage?

That's right. No more incentive pay or stock option program for existing employees.

[kalm]

Yes, he tells a lot of truths. But hard work, in the right place and time, still reaps rewards. As long as that exists, the current system is still better than the Bernie Sanders model.

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

I agree with this - I'd still rather have the model that Carlin describes than the Bernie Sanders model. You can still work hard today and advance yourself. Of course it's easier if you already come from wealth, which is the only real privilege that actually matters, but it's still possible. I think we can take the things from the Bernie model that make sense (I'm all in favor of a national health system, even if it's relatively basic) but stick with the system we have now. Nothing will ever replace hard, smart work. Once we stop doing that then we're really screwed.

So Bernie is anti hard work?

[GannonFan]

I agree with this - I'd still rather have the model that Carlin describes than the Bernie Sanders model. You can still work hard today and advance yourself. Of course it's easier if you already come from wealth, which is the only real privilege that actually matters, but it's still possible. I think we can take the things from the Bernie model that make sense (I'm all in favor of a national health system, even if it's relatively basic) but stick with the system we have now. Nothing will ever replace hard, smart work. Once we stop doing that then we're really screwed.

So Bernie is anti hard work?

What he's for and what are the unintended consequences of his positions could very well be two different things. Bernie's a spur of the moment populist and not a terribly deep thinker - nothing wrong with that per se. Where all this leads us is another question.

[CAA Flagship]

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

I could see McDonald's raising to the $15 minimum wage - they'll just use a lot less employees. They've already gone to mobile ordering and such so that you can order before you get there and have it already waiting for you. No need to talk to a kid at the counter and hope he types the meal correctly. Raising the minimum wage will do what it's always done - make people feel good that they did it, but it won't mean much to the people getting those wages. There'll be less people getting those wages and the inflationary pressures in the economy will soon render those increases moot anyway. But yay for feeling good!

Here's the problem. Amazon's move to $15/hr comes with elimination of monthly bonuses and stock grants. McDonalds does not have that luxury to help pay for a $15 minimum wage. And if you say that they have enough corporate profits in order to pay for it, then what does that do to the competition that doesn't have that ability? Steak & Shake, Culvers, Shake Shack, Rally's, In & Out, Wendy's, Hardees, Arby's, Burger King, etc. don't necessarily have the clout to keep up. So what happens then? They get priced out of the competitive business landscape allowing McDonalds to raise it's prices.
Amazon pulled a shrewd move in it's effort to rule the world. Kudos to them for being able to pull it off. But we can't legislate our way to an environment that creates monopolies. If they happen on their own, so be it, but the government shouldn't be helping them with a $15/hr minimum wage.
(Discloure: I'm OK with a raise to something like $9/hr.)

[css75]

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

I could see McDonald's raising to the $15 minimum wage - they'll just use a lot less employees. They've already gone to mobile ordering and such so that you can order before you get there and have it already waiting for you. No need to talk to a kid at the counter and hope he types the meal correctly. Raising the minimum wage will do what it's always done - make people feel good that they did it, but it won't mean much to the people getting those wages. There'll be less people getting those wages and the inflationary pressures in the economy will soon render those increases moot anyway. But yay for feeling good!

They will just go to robots. 15 an hour would raise prices a lot.


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[GannonFan]

I could see McDonald's raising to the $15 minimum wage - they'll just use a lot less employees. They've already gone to mobile ordering and such so that you can order before you get there and have it already waiting for you. No need to talk to a kid at the counter and hope he types the meal correctly. Raising the minimum wage will do what it's always done - make people feel good that they did it, but it won't mean much to the people getting those wages. There'll be less people getting those wages and the inflationary pressures in the economy will soon render those increases moot anyway. But yay for feeling good!

Here's the problem. Amazon's move to $15/hr comes with elimination of monthly bonuses and stock grants. McDonalds does not have that luxury to help pay for a $15 minimum wage. And if you say that they have enough corporate profits in order to pay for it, then what does that do to the competition that doesn't have that ability? Steak & Shake, Culvers, Shake Shack, Rally's, In & Out, Wendy's, Hardees, Arby's, Burger King, etc. don't necessarily have the clout to keep up. So what happens then? They get priced out of the competitive business landscape allowing McDonalds to raise it's prices.
Amazon pulled a shrewd move in it's effort to rule the world. Kudos to them for being able to pull it off. But we can't legislate our way to an environment that creates monopolies. If they happen on their own, so be it, but the government shouldn't be helping them with a $15/hr minimum wage.
(Discloure: I'm OK with a raise to something like $9/hr.)

The McDonald's in the next few years won't look like it does now, and even what it does now has changed. There's just fewer people there because they aren't needed. The two or three people who used to work the counter? Gone. Either use online ordering or go with touchscreens. both of this they are doing now. The fries could be more automated - heck, it's basically just a person dumping the fries, salting them, and then scooping into a container - that screams for automation. There's just no need for many workers in places like this, and people aren't going to pay more money for the same food just to support higher wages for all. They can bump up the wages, cut the workforce, keep the prices the same, and still exist, so that's what they're going to do.

[kalm]

So Bernie is anti hard work?

What he's for and what are the unintended consequences of his positions could very well be two different things. Bernie's a spur of the moment populist and not a terribly deep thinker - nothing wrong with that per se. Where all this leads us is another question.

Spur of the moment?

Go on.

[kalm]

I could see McDonald's raising to the $15 minimum wage - they'll just use a lot less employees. They've already gone to mobile ordering and such so that you can order before you get there and have it already waiting for you. No need to talk to a kid at the counter and hope he types the meal correctly. Raising the minimum wage will do what it's always done - make people feel good that they did it, but it won't mean much to the people getting those wages. There'll be less people getting those wages and the inflationary pressures in the economy will soon render those increases moot anyway. But yay for feeling good!

Here's the problem. Amazon's move to $15/hr comes with elimination of monthly bonuses and stock grants. McDonalds does not have that luxury to help pay for a $15 minimum wage. And if you say that they have enough corporate profits in order to pay for it, then what does that do to the competition that doesn't have that ability? Steak & Shake, Culvers, Shake Shack, Rally's, In & Out, Wendy's, Hardees, Arby's, Burger King, etc. don't necessarily have the clout to keep up. So what happens then? They get priced out of the competitive business landscape allowing McDonalds to raise it's prices.
Amazon pulled a shrewd move in it's effort to rule the world. Kudos to them for being able to pull it off. But we can't legislate our way to an environment that creates monopolies. If they happen on their own, so be it, but the government shouldn't be helping them with a $15/hr minimum wage.
(Discloure: I'm OK with a raise to something like $9/hr.)

Your last sentence is one of the key problems with higher minimum wage.

You get to a point where only government and monopolies can afford payroll.

[GannonFan]

What he's for and what are the unintended consequences of his positions could very well be two different things. Bernie's a spur of the moment populist and not a terribly deep thinker - nothing wrong with that per se. Where all this leads us is another question.

Spur of the moment?

Go on.

Well, he's old, so he's not going to be here long. And even Bernie said when he was running for President, none of the stuff he was running on had a chance of becoming reality anytime soon even if he did get elected. How we do or adopt any of his agenda is unknown at this point, but again, it feels really good.

[CAA Flagship]

Here's the problem. Amazon's move to $15/hr comes with elimination of monthly bonuses and stock grants. McDonalds does not have that luxury to help pay for a $15 minimum wage. And if you say that they have enough corporate profits in order to pay for it, then what does that do to the competition that doesn't have that ability? Steak & Shake, Culvers, Shake Shack, Rally's, In & Out, Wendy's, Hardees, Arby's, Burger King, etc. don't necessarily have the clout to keep up. So what happens then? They get priced out of the competitive business landscape allowing McDonalds to raise it's prices.
Amazon pulled a shrewd move in it's effort to rule the world. Kudos to them for being able to pull it off. But we can't legislate our way to an environment that creates monopolies. If they happen on their own, so be it, but the government shouldn't be helping them with a $15/hr minimum wage.
(Discloure: I'm OK with a raise to something like $9/hr.)

Your last sentence is one of the key problems with higher minimum wage.

You get to a point where only government and monopolies can afford payroll.

Monopolies can afford to right up until they don't have to anymore. (See corporate earnings announcements.)

[Winterborn]

Yes, he tells a lot of truths. But hard work, in the right place and time, still reaps rewards. As long as that exists, the current system is still better than the Bernie Sanders model.

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

Well said. The problem I have with Bernie and his ideas is that they are trying to create a system where everybody is the same. That does not work in the real world, there is always going to be somebody that has more wealth/health/power/etc. than you, by its very nature a free market society is chaotic and where a person ends up is going to be largely based on their individual talents and a bit of luck. I prefer the system where I have the most personal responsibility over my choices.

I don't doubt Bernie has good intentions, it is just that good intentions aren't alone enough to pay for his ideas. I would rather take my chances with a fair deck of cards, than one that is going to be stacked against me, ala the Bernie system.

"Hell is paved with good intentions" - Samuel Johnson

[Chizzang]

Yes, he tells a lot of truths. But hard work, in the right place and time, still reaps rewards. As long as that exists, the current system is still better than the Bernie Sanders model.

Speaking of Bernie, he is attacking McDonalds now on the minimum wage.

Well said. The problem I have with Bernie and his ideas is that they are trying to create a system where everybody is the same. That does not work in the real world, there is always going to be somebody that has more wealth/health/power/etc. than you, by its very nature a free market society is chaotic and where a person ends up is going to be largely based on their individual talents and a bit of luck. I prefer the system where I have the most personal responsibility over my choices.

I don't doubt Bernie has good intentions, it is just that good intentions aren't alone enough to pay for his ideas. I would rather take my chances with a fair deck of cards, than one that is going to be stacked against me, ala the Bernie system.

There are a few things ^ in your response that require updating

1) Nowhere does Sanders try to create a system where everybody is the same
Mostly he wants to remove Tax loopholes and create a system with complete visibility
The uber wealthy have ZERO interest in visibility and removal of loopholes

2) America is NOT a Free Market Society
Our Federal Government picks the winners (See: Comcast & GM as just a few examples among thousands)
and in very much the same way our society picks the winners



You're almost in a state of complete denial

[Winterborn]

Well said. The problem I have with Bernie and his ideas is that they are trying to create a system where everybody is the same. That does not work in the real world, there is always going to be somebody that has more wealth/health/power/etc. than you, by its very nature a free market society is chaotic and where a person ends up is going to be largely based on their individual talents and a bit of luck. I prefer the system where I have the most personal responsibility over my choices.

I don't doubt Bernie has good intentions, it is just that good intentions aren't alone enough to pay for his ideas. I would rather take my chances with a fair deck of cards, than one that is going to be stacked against me, ala the Bernie system.

There are a few things ^ in your response that require updating

1) Nowhere does Sanders try to create a system where everybody is the same
Mostly he wants to remove Tax loopholes and create a system with complete visibility
The uber wealthy have ZERO interest in visibility and removal of loopholes

2) America is NOT a Free Market Society
Our Federal Government picks the winners (See: Comcast & GM as just a few examples among thousands)
and in very much the same way our society picks the winners



You're almost in a state of complete denial

To your first point, what you stated is part of his proposed plan. But he also states free tuition for everybody, single payer health care, universal kindergarten/pre-school, and wealth inequality. To make that work somebody has to give up something in order to balance out the "inequality". Whether that is individuals or corporations.

For your second, I agree America is no longer a Free Market Society (and never really was) but it was founded with those ideals in mind. I do not believe we will ever reach a truly free market but I much prefer our current mixed one to one where if I can be potentially penalized if I earn more.

As for being almost in a state of complete denial, one usually has to pass though it to find the state of enlightenment.

[JohnStOnge]

I disagree with it completely. A bunch of paranoid demagoguery. Yes, wealthy people have more power and influence. But stuff like saying there is this secret conspiracy to keep the education system from being good so they can keep people stupid and control them is ridiculous. And BTW our education system does not suck. Our K through 12 education systems get blamed a lot for demographic factors they can't control. And our university system is the best in the world.

OBTW there is no secret cabal of rich people that wants to take away our Social Security. Social Security has issues because it's a fundamentally flawed system that was designed to work when people's life expectancy was about 20 years shorter than it is now.

There's a lot of additional typical mythology in that diatribe.

[Chizzang]

I disagree with it completely. A bunch of paranoid demagoguery. Yes, wealthy people have more power and influence. But stuff like saying there is this secret conspiracy to keep the education system from being good so they can keep people stupid and control them is ridiculous. And BTW our education system does not suck. Our K through 12 education systems get blamed a lot for demographic factors they can't control. And our university system is the best in the world.

OBTW there is no secret cabal of rich people that wants to take away our Social Security. Social Security has issues because it's a fundamentally flawed system that was designed to work when people's life expectancy was about 20 years shorter than it is now.

There's a lot of additional typical mythology in that diatribe.

I think he's just railing against the old notion that "it's a level playing field"
and
the whole conspiracy thing is probably more for drama than anything else

[css75]

I disagree with it completely. A bunch of paranoid demagoguery. Yes, wealthy people have more power and influence. But stuff like saying there is this secret conspiracy to keep the education system from being good so they can keep people stupid and control them is ridiculous. And BTW our education system does not suck. Our K through 12 education systems get blamed a lot for demographic factors they can't control. And our university system is the best in the world.

OBTW there is no secret cabal of rich people that wants to take away our Social Security. Social Security has issues because it's a fundamentally flawed system that was designed to work when people's life expectancy was about 20 years shorter than it is now.

There's a lot of additional typical mythology in that diatribe.

Hate to say it but I agree. Social Security is a pyramid scheme, and due to our population leveling off and aging, we are now nearing the bottom of the pyramid. Also, Congress has raided the account a lot of times.


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[Ivytalk]

Carlin’s comedy always had an edge to it, at least early on. In the good old days of the seven deadly words, divorce game, and dogs and cats routines, he was brilliant. Couldn’t touch him. Social commentary was part of his schtick. Later in life, he got bitter and profane. This bit is in that tired mode. Never did put his addictions behind him.

That said, I’m more in agreement with JSO. Except I think our K-12 education system sucks. Kalmie’s just going off on one of his periodic riffs about the evils of money in politics, the alleged power of an elite cabal, and sticking it to The Man.