Is Obama a Socialist?

[Cap'n Cat]

The great conservative misnomer that increased taxation will reduce the incentive to achieve...

Yes, Gates and Allen would have... because they developed their programs for their own egoes as much as for money... i seriously doubt someone like Gates would say to himself "well, I would develop a superior operating system to revolutionize the role of the computer in daily life... but marginal tax rates will limit my wealth to only 30 billion dollars..."

and likewise, the great liberal misnomer that increased taxation is beneficial to all with no negative effect to the economy...

Fvck, Appy, when did this Conk brainwashing happen to you??



You're extrapolating again, I fear.

[Appaholic]

and likewise, the great liberal misnomer that increased taxation is beneficial to all with no negative effect to the economy...

Fvck, Appy, when did this Conk brainwashing happen to you??



You're extrapolating again, I fear.

Now who's extrapolating? The "brainwashing" is this idea "all things conservative bad, all things liberal good"...it reminds me of 8 yrs ago when the conks took office...this poo-pooing of tax-spending without restraint is good for the economy, not paying enough taxes is irresponsible and unpatriotic.....just another reminder that the more things change, the more they stay the same....no different than the last guys, just a different agenda...

[Col Hogan]

just another reminder that the more things change, the more they stay the same....no different than the last guys, just a different agenda...

I've been saying this for a while...Appy wins the "ON TARGET" award award for today...

[Cleets Part 2]

The great conservative misnomer that increased taxation will reduce the incentive to achieve...

Yes, Gates and Allen would have... because they developed their programs for their own egoes as much as for money... i seriously doubt someone like Gates would say to himself "well, I would develop a superior operating system to revolutionize the role of the computer in daily life... but marginal tax rates will limit my wealth to only 30 billion dollars..."

I completely disagree (I think)

The conservatives I know that are against increased taxation are based on different reasons...a bloated lazy spend more to solve every problem Federal Govt.

that seems to be the concern

[Cap'n Cat]

Fvck, Appy, when did this Conk brainwashing happen to you??



You're extrapolating again, I fear.

Now who's extrapolating? The "brainwashing" is this idea "all things conservative bad, all things liberal good"...it reminds me of 8 yrs ago when the conks took office...this poo-pooing of tax-spending without restraint is good for the economy, not paying enough taxes is irresponsible and unpatriotic.....just another reminder that the more things change, the more they stay the same....no different than the last guys, just a different agenda...

Um, please forgive me for trying to use humor on you, Tman.



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http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/

Anyway, read this. The Socialist Party of America's platform on economics. Plenty of Conky and Donky stuff in there, eh? We're all a little socialist, guys. Fess up to it!

The Socialist Party stands for a fundamental transformation of the economy, focusing on production for need not profit. So-called fair trade is meaningless as long as the world economy is dominated by a few massive corporations. Only a global transformation from capitalism to democratic socialism will provide the conditions for international peace, justice, and economic cooperation based on the large-scale transfer of resources and technology from the developed to the developing countries.

1. We demand the immediate withdrawal of the United States from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA), and oppose the creation of a widened Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA).

2. We call for worker and community ownership and control of corporations within the framework of a decentralized and democratically determined economic plan.

3. We call for a minimum wage of $15 per hour, indexed to the cost of living.

4. We call for a full employment policy. We support the provision of a livable guaranteed annual income.

5. We call for all financial and insurance institutions to be socially owned and operated by a democratically-controlled national banking authority, which should include credit unions, mutual insurance cooperatives, and cooperative state banks. In the meantime, we call for re-regulation of the banking and insurance industries.

6. We call for a steeply graduated income tax and a steeply graduated estate tax, and a maximum income of no more than ten times the minimum. We oppose regressive taxes such as payroll tax, sales tax, and property taxes.

7. We call for the restoration of the capital gains tax and luxury tax on a progressive, graduated scale.

8. We call for compensation to communities-- and compensation, re-training, and other support service for workers-- affected by plant and military base closings as stop-gap measures until we reach our goal of creating a socialist society totally separate from the global capitalist economy.

9. We oppose the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the World Trade Organization as instruments of capitalist oppression throughout the world.

10. We demand cancellation of Third World debt.

11. We call for a National Pension Authority to hold the assets of private pension funds, and a levy against corporate assets for any pension fund deficits.

12. We call for increased and expanded welfare assistance and increased and expanded unemployment compensation at 100% of a worker's previous income or the minimum wage, whichever is higher, for the full period of unemployment or re-training, whichever is longer.

13. We support a program of massive federal investment in both urban and rural areas for infrastructure reconstruction and economic development.

14. We support tax benefits for renters equal to those for homeowners.

15. We call for the elimination of subsidies and tax breaks that benefit corporations and all other forms of corporate welfare.


Seems I've read a lot of the above over the years here from both Conks and Donks. Hmmmmmm.

Reading the above, too, it strikes Cap'n Cat why any sane person would "fear" socialism so much as to be a dick about it (Tman, Hoagie, Z, Seattle, etc) and malign the President about it.

[Appaholic]

Um, please forgive me for trying to use humor on you, Tman.



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http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/

Anyway, read this. The Socialist Party of America's platform on economics. Plenty of Conky and Donky stuff in there, eh? We're all a little socialist, guys. Fess up to it!

Oh, I have no problem fessing up to it. However, I'll admit if the same is admited from the other side in between their trips to Walmart and Home Depot. There's a happy medium to be struck, but neither party is capable of reaching that medium as they have to play grab-a$$ with the extremists on both sides. Hence, to get back to Cleet's original thought, there is a need for a third party to counterbalance the idiots from both parties who claim to have the answers while running this country into the ground and blaming it on the gays, druggies and corporations.....

[Cap'n Cat]

Um, please forgive me for trying to use humor on you, Tman.



*************************
http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/

Anyway, read this. The Socialist Party of America's platform on economics. Plenty of Conky and Donky stuff in there, eh? We're all a little socialist, guys. Fess up to it!

Oh, I have no problem fessing up to it. However, I'll admit if the same is admited from the other side in between their trips to Walmart and Home Depot. There's a happy medium to be struck, but neither party is capable of reaching that medium as they have to play grab-a$$ with the extremists on both sides. Hence, to get back to Cleet's original thought, there is a need for a third party to counterbalance the idiots from both parties who claim to have the answers while running this country into the ground and blaming it on the gays, druggies and corporations.....

and the niqqers.

[Ibanez]

Um, please forgive me for trying to use humor on you, Tman.



*************************
http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/

Anyway, read this. The Socialist Party of America's platform on economics. Plenty of Conky and Donky stuff in there, eh? We're all a little socialist, guys. Fess up to it!

Oh, I have no problem fessing up to it. However, I'll admit if the same is admited from the other side in between their trips to Walmart and Home Depot. There's a happy medium to be struck, but neither party is capable of reaching that medium as they have to play grab-a$$ with the extremists on both sides. Hence, to get back to Cleet's original thought, there is a need for a third party to counterbalance the idiots from both parties who claim to have the answers while running this country into the ground and blaming it on the gays, druggies and corporations.....

Leave the queers out of this. We all know the Jews are behind the downfall.

[UNI88]

TTBF, there is something that you are missing ... The government does not have an unlimited ability to raise revenues. The higher the tax rate the lower the incentive to achieve and advance one's self. Unchecked greed can be a bad thing but greed by itself is not necessarily bad. Greed along with pride can push people to accomplish things and these accomplishments create companies/jobs and advancements (medicine, clean energy).

I've preached this before but where would we be without Reagan's tax cuts? Would Bill Gates and Paul Allen have taken the risks to create Microsoft and all of the jobs, millionaires and technological advancements? Or would Bill have mentally decided that it wasn't worth it and taken a job at IBM where he would work and retire as a Director after making $150K/year? What about Michael Dell? Larry Ellison? You can't assume that raising taxes will have no impact on risk-taking and innovation.

It might seem like smoke and mirrors or voodoo economics but raising taxes can actually reduce government revenue and hurt the economy. There is a hidden cost to higher taxes that should be recognized and accounted for.

The great conservative misnomer that increased taxation will reduce the incentive to achieve...

Yes, Gates and Allen would have... because they developed their programs for their own egoes as much as for money... i seriously doubt someone like Gates would say to himself "well, I would develop a superior operating system to revolutionize the role of the computer in daily life... but marginal tax rates will limit my wealth to only 30 billion dollars..."

First, Gates & Allen were examples. I wasn't literally talking about just them. Their egos would have likely driven them to do what they did regardless but there are thousands and thousands of people out there with ideas for a new product, medicine, etc. Some of them will work and some of them won't. But higher taxes will causes some of those thousands not to try to develop their product and start a business. There is a cost in lost jobs and missed opportunities for solutions that could make our lives better (could a replacement for the internal combustion engine or a cure for cancer be delayed as a result).

Second, Cleets Part Deux is exactly right in that it isn't just about taxation but about how the money is spent. The great liberal misnomer that increased taxation will allow the government to make everyone's lives better. The bigger the government gets the less efficient it is. A smaller government could probably put $0.70-0.80 of every $1.00 in taxes to work for its citizens but the more you ask a government to do the more bloated it gets and the more you spend on bureaucracy until eventually you're only spending $0.20-0.30 of every $1.00 in taxes on actual programs. IMO, a $1.00 spent by a reasonably regulated private sector is going to be much more effective than a $1.00 spent by the government.

Asking government to make everything fair and level is asking for the country to be like the ship in WALL-E!

[AZGrizFan]

Maybe we all need to pare back some of rugged, boostrap individualism (fvck, all it's got us is fat and dangerous - freedom to eat Cheez Wiz at every meal and the right to have 132 guns in one's house) and get into more of an "overall community" frame of mind.

You're serious? What a load of crap. True "rugged, boostrap individualism" isn't what has denigrated this society to it's current state of selfishness and "me-first" mentality. The sense of entitlement that is residually associated with mandated "fairness" and bumper sticker politics is a more likely culprit. What has gotten us "fat and dangerous" is this mentality that, no matter my choices, there is a safety net complete with a non-judgemental society waiting regardless of the irresponsibility or lack of planning used in making those choices.....and this applies to both sides....using some stewardship in dealing with one's neighbors and environs is a responsible decision...having it mandated we have to take care of people or bailout organizations who refuse to learn from poor decisions (since there are no repercussions of those poor choices) is no way to run a society either....

You, sir, are one smart redneck.

[AZGrizFan]

6. We call for a steeply graduated income tax and a steeply graduated estate tax, and a maximum income of no more than ten times the minimum. We oppose regressive taxes such as payroll tax, sales tax, and property taxes.

7. We call for the restoration of the capital gains tax and luxury tax on a progressive, graduated scale.

Most of their "agenda" is pure folly, but the above is where they REALLY go off the deep end. There ain't NOTHING in there that even remotely applies to me.