How Long Will The Shutdown Last? (Dec 2018)

[93henfan]

I've never made any case that I'm essential. I oversee foreign aid. That's obviously way down on the list of essential.

The only case that I'll make is that I'm trying to get the most money I can and retire as soon as I can (in nine years) while maximizing quality of life along the way. I've even been asked by supervisors before what my plans are for one year from now, five years from now, and beyond. I tell them my plan is to get through the next nine years and retire. I am nothing if not honest to everyone I meet.

[89Hen]

My wife was complaining about the Smithsonian and other attractions here in DC being closed

I asked her if she realized that there are about 350 million people who aren’t affected by that one iota

Totals for 2018 (through end of October)

Smithsonian American Art Museum (With the Renwick Gallery) 2.6M
National Portrait Gallery 1.9M
National Museum of African American History and Culture 1.7M
National Museum of African Art 124,787
National Air and Space Museum 5.6M
National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center 1.3M
National Museum of American History 3.7M
National Museum of the American Indian (Washington, D.C.) 944,000
National Museum of the American Indian Heye Center (New York City) 344,000
Anacostia Community Museum 30,000
Arts and Industries Building 16,000
Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum 276,000
Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden 679,000
National Museum of Natural History 4.3M
Renwick Gallery of the Smithsonian American Art Museum 709,000
S. Dillon Ripley Center 105,000
Smithsonian Institution Building, "The Castle" 978,000
Arthur M. Sackler Gallery 112,000
Freer Gallery of Art 243,000
National Postal Museum 435,000
National Zoo 1.3M
Total Visits in 2018 20.9M

[GannonFan]

My wife was complaining about the Smithsonian and other attractions here in DC being closed

I asked her if she realized that there are about 350 million people who aren’t affected by that one iota

Totals for 2018 (through end of October)

Smithsonian American Art Museum (With the Renwick Gallery) 2.6M
National Portrait Gallery 1.9M
National Museum of African American History and Culture 1.7M
National Museum of African Art 124,787
National Air and Space Museum 5.6M
National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center 1.3M
National Museum of American History 3.7M
National Museum of the American Indian (Washington, D.C.) 944,000
National Museum of the American Indian Heye Center (New York City) 344,000
Anacostia Community Museum 30,000
Arts and Industries Building 16,000
Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum 276,000
Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden 679,000
National Museum of Natural History 4.3M
Renwick Gallery of the Smithsonian American Art Museum 709,000
S. Dillon Ripley Center 105,000
Smithsonian Institution Building, "The Castle" 978,000
Arthur M. Sackler Gallery 112,000
Freer Gallery of Art 243,000
National Postal Museum 435,000
National Zoo 1.3M
Total Visits in 2018 20.9M

Are those figures double or triple (or more even) dipping? I've never gone to just one Smithsonian while in DC - if I went to one I probably went to 2 or 3 others on the same visit. A lot of those numbers seem to match up in a way that confirms that. I would imagine just the sheer number of National Parks around the country see more of an impact than the National Mall.

[Chizzang]

You ain't just kiddin'
My pops spent 22 years in government jobs and he'd tell you straight up 50% could be laid off tomorrow
and nobody would notice

phpBB [video]

What the hell have I been saying here all this time?

Nobody really cares and nobody is really affected

My wife was complaining about the Smithsonian and other attractions here in DC being closed

I asked her if she realized that there are about 350 million people who aren’t affected by that one iota

It's a cruel world

[Ivytalk]

I've never made any case that I'm essential. I oversee foreign aid. That's obviously way down on the list of essential.

The only case that I'll make is that I'm trying to get the most money I can and retire as soon as I can (in nine years) while maximizing quality of life along the way. I've even been asked by supervisors before what my plans are for one year from now, five years from now, and beyond. I tell them my plan is to get through the next nine years and retire. I am nothing if not honest to everyone I meet.

So in 9 years, you’ll be 57. Not too long ago, Uncle Dupee forced ‘em out at 50.

[89Hen]

Are those figures double or triple (or more even) dipping? I've never gone to just one Smithsonian while in DC - if I went to one I probably went to 2 or 3 others on the same visit. A lot of those numbers seem to match up in a way that confirms that. I would imagine just the sheer number of National Parks around the country see more of an impact than the National Mall.

No doubt, just pointing out that the museums being closed are a big deal for more than just a few people. Foodtrucks, vendors, restaurants, etc... all will be hurting if it goes another couple weeks.

[GannonFan]

Are those figures double or triple (or more even) dipping? I've never gone to just one Smithsonian while in DC - if I went to one I probably went to 2 or 3 others on the same visit. A lot of those numbers seem to match up in a way that confirms that. I would imagine just the sheer number of National Parks around the country see more of an impact than the National Mall.

No doubt, just pointing out that the museums being closed are a big deal for more than just a few people. Foodtrucks, vendors, restaurants, etc... all will be hurting if it goes another couple weeks.

Oh, I agree. Still doubtful that either side really cares. The goal is power and better memes, the sufferings of ordinary Americans matters little in that regard.

[JohnStOnge]

The USDA impact is interesting:

https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releas ... se-funding

Notice that certain things that will continue will only continue for a certain time frame. Also notice that some pretty interesting things will not continue.

[JohnStOnge]

Because of another on line "conversation" I looked in more detail at the Harvard/Harris poll conducted December 24 -25 (see https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-conten ... opline.pdf) Here are some interesting results:

Question: Do you support building a wall on the Mexican border?

Yes - 44%
No - 56%

Question: Do you support building a security barrier on the Mexican border?

Yes: 46%
No: 54%

Question: Do you support or oppose the partial government shutdown over funding for border security?

Strongly/Somewhat Support - 40%
Strongly/Somewhat Oppose - 60%

Question: The House of Representatives passed a continuing resolution that had $5 billion of boarder wall and security but the Democrats in the Senate blocked it, saying they will not fund the barrier the president wants, triggering the partial shutdown. Do you think that the Democrats should fund the $5 billion for the border security or not?

Democrats should fund - 45%
Demorats should not fund - 55%

At least as of December 24 - 25 Trump and the Republicans were clearly on the wrong side of public opinion. It'll be interesting to see if public opinion changes. If it does not, it'll be interesting to see how the Republicans work their way out of the box Trump has put them in.

[css75]

None ^ of that is inaccurate...



I would add to that
the average American doesn't really understand what a government shutdown is
and doesn't actually care either - unless they are told to care by somebody

None of it is discernable from where I sit unless the SS checks quit coming. Expectation of which is why I started drawing 80% at 63 instead of waiting. Republicans are simply incapable of resisting the urge to steal from taxpayers.

Both parties steal from taxpayers, this is one thing they are united on. They also have several raided from Social Security and Federal pension fund.


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[houndawg]

None of it is discernable from where I sit unless the SS checks quit coming. Expectation of which is why I started drawing 80% at 63 instead of waiting. Republicans are simply incapable of resisting the urge to steal from taxpayers.

Here’s a good example why Congress doesn’t do anything^^^^^

Because each side will reliably blame the other and each base will believe the problem is solely on the other side

Business as usual.

[HI54UNI]

Looking at various govt websites some still appear to be working/current, others have posted notices about how info may not be up to date due to the shutdown, and still others, like energystar.gov, have all info blocked.

I find it odd that I can still find out about any USDA program but can't look up which water heater is more efficient on Energy Star. Almost seems like someone in the bureaucracy has their panties in a twist at Energy Star.

[93henfan]

Looking at various govt websites some still appear to be working/current, others have posted notices about how info may not be up to date due to the shutdown, and still others, like energystar.gov, have all info blocked.

I find it odd that I can still find out about any USDA program but can't look up which water heater is more efficient on Energy Star. Almost seems like someone in the bureaucracy has their panties in a twist at Energy Star.

Good. Anything a federal employee can do to make things a little more painful for the public when we're being used as pawns only raises awareness. I'm glad National Parks and the National Mall look like landfills at the moment too. The more chaos the better.

[TheDancinMonarch]

Looking at various govt websites some still appear to be working/current, others have posted notices about how info may not be up to date due to the shutdown, and still others, like energystar.gov, have all info blocked.

I find it odd that I can still find out about any USDA program but can't look up which water heater is more efficient on Energy Star. Almost seems like someone in the bureaucracy has their panties in a twist at Energy Star.

Good. Anything a federal employee can do to make things a little more painful for the public when we're being used as pawns only raises awareness. I'm glad National Parks and the National Mall look like landfills at the moment too. The more chaos the better.

Employees making life more painful for the employers. Another argument for a more limited smaller government.

[93henfan]

Good. Anything a federal employee can do to make things a little more painful for the public when we're being used as pawns only raises awareness. I'm glad National Parks and the National Mall look like landfills at the moment too. The more chaos the better.

Employees making life more painful for the employers. Another argument for a more limited smaller government.

How so? We're not at work. Did you even read what you wrote?

But I understand. Trump needs people like you, who equate hardworking federal employees with do-nothing congresspeople getting fat off lobbyists.

[93henfan]

...The one thing President Trump has not talked about publicly during 13 days of the partial government shutdown is the 800,000 federal workers who are not being paid because of it.

Mr. Trump’s apparent indifference to the Transportation Security Administration agents, correctional officers, scientists and other federal employees caught in the cross hairs of a political standoff presents a remarkable contrast with how other presidents have made a point of trying to demonstrate their empathy during other shutdowns. In 2013, for instance, President Barack Obama wrote an open letter to the workers affected when the government was closed.

“None of this is fair to you,” he wrote, adding, “You and your families remain at the front of my mind.”

Even Ronald Reagan, the president best known for taking on government unions, acknowledged during a 1981 shutdown the “temporary hardship” it caused for government workers. But so far, Mr. Trump has not publicly recognized even that...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/us/p ... tdown.html

[Ivytalk]

...The one thing President Trump has not talked about publicly during 13 days of the partial government shutdown is the 800,000 federal workers who are not being paid b ecause of it.

Mr. Trump’s apparent indifference to the Transportation Security Administration agents, correctional officers, scientists and other federal employees caught in the cross hairs of a political standoff presents a remarkable contrast with how other presidents have made a point of trying to demonstrate their empathy during other shutdowns. In 2013, for instance, President Barack Obama wrote an open letter to the workers affected when the government was closed.

“None of this is fair to you,” he wrote, adding, “You and your families remain at the front of my mind.”

Even Ronald Reagan, the president best known for taking on government unions, acknowledged during a 1981 shutdown the “temporary hardship” it caused for government workers. But so far, Mr. Trump has not publicly recognized even that...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/us/p ... tdown.html

Trump would fire all 800,000 if he could.

[Chizzang]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/us/p ... tdown.html

Trump would fire all 800,000 if he could.

Also:
This is everybody else's fault

[dbackjon]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 9a5df6eabe

While many federal workers go without pay and the government is partially shut down, hundreds of senior Trump political appointees are poised to receive annual raises of about $10,000 a year.

The pay raises for Cabinet secretaries, deputy secretaries, top administrators and even Vice President Pence are scheduled to go into effect beginning Jan. 5 without legislation to stop them, according to documents issued by the Office of Personnel Management and experts in federal pay.

The raises appear to be an unintended consequence of the shutdown: When lawmakers failed to pass bills on Dec. 21 to fund multiple federal agencies, they allowed an existing pay freeze to lapse. Congress enacted a law capping pay for top federal executives in 2013 and renewed it each year. The raises will occur because that cap will expire without legislative action by Saturday, allowing raises to kick in that have accumulated over those years but never took effect, starting with paychecks that will be issued next week.

[TheDancinMonarch]

Employees making life more painful for the employers. Another argument for a more limited smaller government.

How so? We're not at work. Did you even read what you wrote?

But I understand. Trump needs people like you, who equate hardworking non-essential federal employees with do-nothing congresspeople getting fat off lobbyists.

FIFU.

[Chizzang]

[CID1990]

I just watched the short presser from Pelosi after the meeting with Trump

They've changed their tune - now saying they can't do anything towards negotiating until Trump agrees to open the government again

No mention of DACA ... I heard Trump say he was willing to trade DACA for the wall. At the end of Pelosi's announcement after the meeting, I heard at least 2-3 reporters shouting about DACA and Schumer/Pelosi/Hoyer and the rest hurried away

They've said "no wall" unequivocally and now they've let Trump paint them into a corner with the DACA offer

There is so much poison and idiocy in every corner its damned embarrassing that each side has enough credibility with the respective bases to perpetuate this fraud. We are literally circling the drain with these fvcktards at the helm


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[93henfan]

If USMCA has paid for the wall, then why is he shutting down the Government to get funding from US taxpayers for the wall?

Also, in his press conference a few minutes ago, he said that federal employees going without pay see the benefits of holding out for a wall.

Yeah, I'm going to let my mortgage company, car finance company, electric company, gas company, phone company, ex-wife at child support time, etc all know that my nonpayment to them is but a small price to pay to keep the brown people out.

I'm sure they'll agree.

Well, if they don't, I'm sure the bankruptcy lawyer will work for me pro bono, because who doesn't want better border security? It's far more important than putting almost a million people out of work.

[Ibanez]

1) USMCA hasn't been approved by Congress
2) There's nothing in the USMCA to direct any money to the wall. That's not how trade agreements work
3) Low information/knowledge voters will eat that crap up

[CID1990]

If USMCA has paid for the wall, then why is he shutting down the Government to get funding from US taxpayers for the wall?

Also, in his press conference a few minutes ago, he said that federal employees going without pay see the benefits of holding out for a wall.

Yeah, I'm going to let my mortgage company, car finance company, electric company, gas company, phone company, ex-wife at child support time, etc all know that my nonpayment to them is but a small price to pay to keep the brown people out.

I'm sure they'll agree.

Well, if they don't, I'm sure the bankruptcy lawyer will work for me pro bono, because who doesn't want better border security? It's far more important than putting almost a million people out of work.

Dude - you should have had a side job at Wawa already lined up for this contingency!