How Long Will The Shutdown Last? (Dec 2018)

[Ibanez]

Got a call from one of my airline clients.

They're deciding to hold off on NTPs for three small capital improvement projects until the shutdown is done and they crunch the numbers to see how much revenue was lost during the shutdown.

Earlier, the tariffs cancelled about five projects of mine due to higher-than-budgeted costs. And now three are on hold (which will likely be cancelled if history repeats itself). These are private projects which suppliers, fabricators, tradesmen, engineers, architects, and other well-paying jobs lose out on...for no good reason. And of course the client can't make the improvements on their services.

Just chaos.

The chaos is where the real costs of the shutdown creep in. I was a construction contracting officer in the previous shutdown, and we had to stop-work massive multi-million dollar projects. The increased equipment rental terms, the increased per diem, the inefficiency... all of those things have real dollar consequences that eventually get paid by the Government. The last shutdown cost the taxpayer $52.5M per day according to OMB.

I think of the real impact to lives. I wonder what the minimum wage people who clean my office are doing right now. I wonder about all the NIB/NISH people (blind and severely handicapped) on contract whose daily routine is completely thrown out of whack and what their caregivers are doing when they are bringing in no money. I wonder about all of the food truck vendors who usually have a line of me and my coworkers starting to line up each day right about now.

Real bills start getting missed this week for people who live paycheck to paycheck. 800,000 civil servants miss a paycheck this Friday. Active duty Coast Guard will miss a paycheck on Tuesday of next week.

All because three people refuse to compromise.

Yeah! We gotta keep the brown people out! They're taking our jobs!

I agree with you 100% - this shutdown is prick waving and nothing more. Real people are getting hurt. But somehow, I don't see Trump's base abandoning him because of it.

[CAA Flagship]

A trip down memory lane for those that don't know the references:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/ ... ng#p553851

[Winterborn]

A trip down memory lane for those that don't know the references:
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/ ... ng#p553851

Thanks Flaggy for the link.

And props to you 93! That is something I have to be careful of when coming back into the office from working out in the field. "Are you an idiot" is not something HR should overhear you asking a coworker.

[∞∞∞]

I'm a little confused, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation, but why don't Senate Republicans override Trump's veto of the spending bill? Both the Senate and House had bipartisan agreements on the bill without the wall...and then Trump vetoed it.

But now the Senate - still controlled by Republicans - won't even take up a vote until Trump is on board (even though the same plan is on the table). Since everyone was initially good with the budget, it seems like the votes are there to override the President...but I guess Trump has the GOP by the balls.

[CID1990]

I'm a little confused, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation, but why don't Senate Republicans override Trump's veto of the spending bill? Both the Senate and House had bipartisan agreements on the bill without the wall...and then Trump vetoed it.

But now the Senate - still controlled by Republicans - won't even take up a vote until Trump is on board (even though the same plan is on the table). Since everyone was initially good with the budget, it seems like the votes are there to override the President...but I guess Trump has the GOP by the balls.

Why doesnt Nancy just trade DACA for the wall?

hmm


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[∞∞∞]

I'm a little confused, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation, but why don't Senate Republicans override Trump's veto of the spending bill? Both the Senate and House had bipartisan agreements on the bill without the wall...and then Trump vetoed it.

But now the Senate - still controlled by Republicans - won't even take up a vote until Trump is on board (even though the same plan is on the table). Since everyone was initially good with the budget, it seems like the votes are there to override the President...but I guess Trump has the GOP by the balls.

Why doesnt Nancy just trade DACA for the wall?

Thanks for the non-answer. The Senate GOP overwhelmingly voted for a bipartisan bill, were caught by surprise when Trump vetoed it, and haven't had the balls to override him.

The votes are there; Senate Republicans can end the shutdown tomorrow.

But they won't 'cause Trump's made them his bitch.

[AZGrizFan]

Why doesnt Nancy just trade DACA for the wall?

Thanks for the non-answer. The Senate GOP overwhelmingly voted for a bipartisan bill, were caught by surprise when Trump vetoed it, and haven't had the balls to override him.

The votes are there; Senate Republicans can end the shutdown tomorrow.

But they won't 'cause Trump's made them his bitch.

You answered your own question, now answer CID’s.

[CID1990]

Why doesnt Nancy just trade DACA for the wall?

Thanks for the non-answer. The Senate GOP overwhelmingly voted for a bipartisan bill, were caught by surprise when Trump vetoed it, and haven't had the balls to override him.

The votes are there; Senate Republicans can end the shutdown tomorrow.

But they won't 'cause Trump's made them his bitch.

It isn't a non-answer

You are pretending this is all on the GOP, which is unsurprising

Trump has already indicated that he would trade DACA for the wall. Nancy Pelosi has said several times - no wall, no discussion. So who is being more inflexible?

[∞∞∞]

Thanks for the non-answer. The Senate GOP overwhelmingly voted for a bipartisan bill, were caught by surprise when Trump vetoed it, and haven't had the balls to override him.

The votes are there; Senate Republicans can end the shutdown tomorrow.

But they won't 'cause Trump's made them his bitch.

It isn't a non-answer

You are pretending this is all on the GOP, which is unsurprising

Trump has already indicated that he would trade DACA for the wall. Nancy Pelosi has said several times - no wall, no discussion. So who is being more inflexible?

Pretend you're the Senate and I'm the House.

We sit down, hash out differences, and come up with a bill we're both satisfied with.

Then President AZ says no to it; however with or without his support, we can end the shutdown and override the veto. In what world does it make sense that we don't?

I'm still ok with the deal; you suddenly aren't? You don't even bring it up for a vote anymore?

ps. And the GOP controlled both chambers before the shutdown, the moment it happened, and less than a week ago. Did we already forget that? Dems are planning to pass the same bipartisan bills the prior Congress approved; the GOP will have to explain why it's not voting for them anymore.

[Col Hogan]

I'm a little confused, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation, but why don't Senate Republicans override Trump's veto of the spending bill? Both the Senate and House had bipartisan agreements on the bill without the wall...and then Trump vetoed it.

But now the Senate - still controlled by Republicans - won't even take up a vote until Trump is on board (even though the same plan is on the table). Since everyone was initially good with the budget, it seems like the votes are there to override the President...but I guess Trump has the GOP by the balls.

Trip must subscribe to the AOC position of accuracy is not as important than being morally right...

He is mis-reading the Slate talking points...the President never vetoed a spending bill...The Senate Majority leader said he would not forward a bill to the floor for a vote if the President didn’t support it, and the President has said no wall, no sign...and lots of Republican senators agree with that position...

[mainejeff]

NO FUCKING WALL!

[∞∞∞]

I'm a little confused, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation, but why don't Senate Republicans override Trump's veto of the spending bill? Both the Senate and House had bipartisan agreements on the bill without the wall...and then Trump vetoed it.

But now the Senate - still controlled by Republicans - won't even take up a vote until Trump is on board (even though the same plan is on the table). Since everyone was initially good with the budget, it seems like the votes are there to override the President...but I guess Trump has the GOP by the balls.

Trip must subscribe to the AOC position of accuracy is not as important than being morally right...

He is mis-reading the Slate talking points...the President never vetoed a spending bill...The Senate Majority leader said he would not forward a bill to the floor for a vote if the President didn’t support it, and the President has said no wall, no sign...and lots of Republican senators agree with that position...

So force Trump to veto it, and then take it up again. But they don't have the balls.

The House is sending the GOP bills the GOP came up with; there's really no excuse here.

The majority of Americans don't want the wall and so far, polling shows most Americans are putting the blame on Trump and the GOP. You gotta remember, Conks controlled all chambers when this thing started.

[kalm]

Trip must subscribe to the AOC position of accuracy is not as important than being morally right...

He is mis-reading the Slate talking points...the President never vetoed a spending bill...The Senate Majority leader said he would not forward a bill to the floor for a vote if the President didn’t support it, and the President has said no wall, no sign...and lots of Republican senators agree with that position...

So force Trump to veto it, and then take it up again. But they don't have the balls.

The House is sending the GOP bills the GOP came up with; there's really no excuse here.

The majority of Americans don't want the wall and so far, polling shows most Americans are putting the blame on Trump and the GOP. You gotta remember, Conks controlled all chambers when this thing started.

Yep. They are supposed to represent the people of their state. McConnell sees the rock and hard place between Trump retribution and 2020 so the best thing to do is not force them to take a position.

[∞∞∞]

So force Trump to veto it, and then take it up again. But they don't have the balls.

The House is sending the GOP bills the GOP came up with; there's really no excuse here.

The majority of Americans don't want the wall and so far, polling shows most Americans are putting the blame on Trump and the GOP. You gotta remember, Conks controlled all chambers when this thing started.

Yep. They are supposed to represent the people of their state. McConnell sees the rock and hard place between Trump retribution and 2020 so the best thing to do is not force them to take a position.

The Senate is acting like Congress isn't a co-equal power to Trump. They can literally end this today.

Let's face it though, the GOP has become Trump's bitch.

[mainejeff]

Mitch McConnell is right up there with some of the biggest scoundrels ever in U.S. government and politics. The sad part is that a lot of these old fucks won't live long enough to see their legacy thoroughly dragged through the mud and see the U.S. become what they are trying to prevent.

[Ibanez]

Yep. They are supposed to represent the people of their state. McConnell sees the rock and hard place between Trump retribution and 2020 so the best thing to do is not force them to take a position.

The Senate is acting like Congress isn't a co-equal power to Trump. They can literally end this today.

Let's face it though, the GOP has become Trump's bitch.

Just like the Democrats became Obama's bitch? Seriously, you're SHOCKED that a party is behaving this way when they have the White House?

[Ivytalk]

Mitch McConnell is right up there with some of the biggest scoundrels ever in U.S. government and politics. The sad part is that a lot of these old **** won't live long enough to see their legacy thoroughly dragged through the mud and see the U.S. become what they are trying to prevent.

Yeah, Jeffy, you were a fanboi of that paragon of integrity, Harry Reid.

[93henfan]

Last several posts are just another litmus test of where we are as a country. It's all about scoring points and claiming victory, the good of the country be damned.

Perhaps we need to start another thread on how many years this constitutional republic has left.

[CID1990]

It’s funny how the last thing the Dems want to discuss now is DACA

It was so in vogue just a couple months ago

The guy who holds the veto power has said he’d trade it for a wall ..... and people like Pelosi and MJ would rather see them deported than to build the stupid thing, whether it would work or not

Instead, we have Treep whining about how this is all the GOP’s fault (Republicans are playing politics!!! The horror)

Anyone who sees this as anything other than an equal failure of both parties to avoid demagoguing the most minute of details is insane

“The wall is immoral”

“Terrorists are coming in through the border”

^^^^ both are scare tactics depending on your perspective

Literally, we have a compromise solution sitting right in front of everybody’s noses ... but let’s just whine and point fingers instead for political points. That is ALL Congress is doing and the people are falling for it

[CID1990]

Last several posts are just another litmus test of where we are as a country. It's all about scoring points and claiming victory, the good of the country be damned.

Perhaps we need to start another thread on how many years this constitutional republic has left.

I’ve been saying last one out turn out the lights for years now

We’re about to fulfill Einstein’s definition of stupidity on a national scale

[Ivytalk]

Last several posts are just another litmus test of where we are as a country. It's all about scoring points and claiming victory, the good of the country be damned.

Perhaps we need to start another thread on how many years this constitutional republic has left.

Thanks, 93. No need to go all Church Lady on us. I hope you get paid soon.

[Ibanez]

Last several posts are just another litmus test of where we are as a country. It's all about scoring points and claiming victory, the good of the country be damned.

Perhaps we need to start another thread on how many years this constitutional republic has left.

<50 yrs

[GannonFan]

Literally, we have a compromise solution sitting right in front of everybody’s noses ... but let’s just whine and point fingers instead for political points. That is ALL Congress is doing and the people are falling for it

The only thing I would change is that the President is just as culpable as the Congress in this. Compromise isn't hard to reach on this, nor is it on the vast majority of other issues out there. But the partisans on either side have made compromise so impossible (when you start casting every issue as a moral issue, you start to tie your own hands and refuse to talk to the other, immoral side) that this is what we're left with - 800,000 people, and certainly more than that, being held hostage to two political parties and their zealot partisan bases who refuse to work it out. Nothing is perfect, and compromise isn't perfect either, but it's a vast improvement compared to the crap that Trump/McConnell/Schumer/Pelosi are throwing out there currently.

[Skjellyfetti]

There was a compromise solution BEFORE the shutdown.

The Senate voted on a solution unanimously. The House was about to vote on it... Then Trump threw a temper tantrum in a meeting with Ryan... and then Ryan never put it up to vote.

[∞∞∞]

There was a compromise solution BEFORE the shutdown.

The Senate voted on a solution unanimously. The House was about to vote on it... Then Trump threw a temper tantrum in a meeting with Ryan... and then Ryan never put it up to vote.

It's insane that people forget less than a week ago, Congress was controlled by Conks AND they had the votes to push whatever bill they wanted through. Yet they bowed down to Trump.