How Long Will The Shutdown Last? (Dec 2018)

[Silenoz]

Partly true, but I also believe in personal freedoms afforded by the Bill of Rights, to include the Second Amendment. What we're going to get from 2021 - ? after Trump loses is a wild swing to the left, which comes with its own harm.

Also, Obama froze my pay for three consecutive years, so it's not like he was throwing me candy from his float.

The inevitable Democratic knee jerk reaction that's coming is going to be bad for everybody...
and I mean EVERYBODY



I'm not looking forward to that day... but it's coming

Wild pendulum swings from two sides that treat this likes a sports rivalry. I've been decrying this shit to every donk and conk friend of mine for years, but they're too busy blaming the other side for everything.

[JohnStOnge]

Ok 93, who are you outraged at now:

The House rejected a GOP measure to pay furloughed workers but keep the government closed in a 222-195 vote.

Six Democrats voted for the GOP measure, offered as an alternative to a Democratic bill to reopen the government.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4258 ... government

You would have gotten paid and NOT had to go into work.

I do think the Democrats should have voted for that. But I think it would've ended up just being calling a bluff. Trump wouldn't go for it because it would take most of his leverage away just as reopening the government would. So McConnell would not have brought it to the Senate floor.

That's IF the bill is simply as represented by that particular article. I'll try to look into that.

[93henfan]

The pressure is mounting on Trump though, and not on the Democrats. Time is not Trump's friend on this.

I don’t know about that.

I think way too many people - Dems, Republicans, independents, everybody - are working from the assumption that Trump gives a flying fvck...

Either the GOP in the Senate has a rebellion, or Pelosi caves on the wall, but Trump isn’t going to cave. He can do this straight on until 2020.

Not really. He needs a CR for the other 60% of Government in September.

You think he'll stop Social Security payments and defense contractors?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

[JohnStOnge]

The pressure is mounting on Trump though, and not on the Democrats. Time is not Trump's friend on this.

I don’t know about that.

I think way too many people - Dems, Republicans, independents, everybody - are working from the assumption that Trump gives a flying fvck...

Either the GOP in the Senate has a rebellion, or Pelosi caves on the wall, but Trump isn’t going to cave. He can do this straight on until 2020.

To some extent I think you're right in that I don't think Trump will cave under circumstances where he has to admit that he caved. But I think he obviously is a person that will retreat then claim he hasn't retreated. I think it's very possible that if he convinces himself that he can claim victory while he's actually retreating he would do that. I also think the Democrats should go ahead and try to take advantage of that.

At the same time I do think they should be looking for ways to put pressure on the Senate. If McConnell decided that he wanted to overwhelm Trump he could. I think if McConnell told the Senate "OK this has gone far enough we are going to authorize appropriations and if Trump vetos we will over ride" he'd have the votes to do it. I also think that would be the best scenario for the country in that Trump wouldn't try this again.

[JohnStOnge]

I don’t know about that.

I think way too many people - Dems, Republicans, independents, everybody - are working from the assumption that Trump gives a flying fvck...

Either the GOP in the Senate has a rebellion, or Pelosi caves on the wall, but Trump isn’t going to cave. He can do this straight on until 2020.

Not really. He needs a CR for the other 60% of Government in September.

You think he'll stop Social Security payments and defense contractors?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

What he needs is a face saving way to get out of this and I think the Democrats should be looking for ways to give it to him. For the good of the country I mean.

[Silenoz]

That sounds like a compromise. We don't do those anymore.

[93henfan]

Not really. He needs a CR for the other 60% of Government in September.

You think he'll stop Social Security payments and defense contractors?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

What he needs is a face saving way to get out of this and I think the Democrats should be looking for ways to give it to him. For the good of the country I mean.

Right. $3.5B (halfway) for the wall and DACA. We could all work this out in 30 seconds as adults.

[JohnStOnge]

That sounds like a compromise. We don't do those anymore.

Well it's tough because they'd have to give him a face-saving way to get out of this WITHOUT making him think that what he did will work in the future to get what he wants. It's a difficult problem. If he comes away thinking this works to get what he wants he's going to do it again and we're at risk of having this kind of disruption each time it's time for appropriations for as long as he's President.

[CID1990]

I don’t know about that.

I think way too many people - Dems, Republicans, independents, everybody - are working from the assumption that Trump gives a flying fvck...

Either the GOP in the Senate has a rebellion, or Pelosi caves on the wall, but Trump isn’t going to cave. He can do this straight on until 2020.

Not really. He needs a CR for the other 60% of Government in September.

You think he'll stop Social Security payments and defense contractors?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Didn’t think so what?

I think he might - he’s going to get his wall or he’s going to bring the pain

I’ve thought about what JSO just said (a first) and he may have a point (another first) and I agree (holy cow Batman) that Trump could find a way to cave without having to acknowledge that he caved, but I’m not holding my breath

Maybe some kind of “I tried, but Nancy Pelosi showed she was willing to cut off the military and the elderly, because Democrats hate the military and the elderly, and I couldn’t let that happen” strategy

[mainejeff]

NO FUCKING WALL!

[CID1990]

NO **** WALL!

Why not?

Should we dismantle the wall we already have?

[Chizzang]

The inevitable Democratic knee jerk reaction that's coming is going to be bad for everybody...
and I mean EVERYBODY



I'm not looking forward to that day... but it's coming

Wild pendulum swings from two sides that treat this likes a sports rivalry. I've been decrying this shit to every donk and conk friend of mine for years, but they're too busy blaming the other side for everything.

We've crossed over...

Being Liberal and Conservative used to mean something
Now both sides have been hi-jacked by the crazies

[CAA Flagship]

Wild pendulum swings from two sides that treat this likes a sports rivalry. I've been decrying this shit to every donk and conk friend of mine for years, but they're too busy blaming the other side for everything.

We've crossed over...

Being Liberal and Conservative used to mean something
Now both sides have been hi-jacked by the crazies

Still pretty white on my side.

[kalm]

The inevitable Democratic knee jerk reaction that's coming is going to be bad for everybody...
and I mean EVERYBODY



I'm not looking forward to that day... but it's coming

Wild pendulum swings from two sides that treat this likes a sports rivalry. I've been decrying this shit to every donk and conk friend of mine for years, but they're too busy blaming the other side for everything.

I admire Griz football and wish them all the best except when they chose to play us.

[Silenoz]

Wild pendulum swings from two sides that treat this likes a sports rivalry. I've been decrying this shit to every donk and conk friend of mine for years, but they're too busy blaming the other side for everything.

I admire Griz football and wish them all the best except when they chose to play us.

Kalm: his rareness as a tree-hugging hippie of decency is only outweighed by his rareness as an EWU fan of decency

[JohnStOnge]

If it hasn't been posted yet I just saw a report of another epic fail by Trump. Haven't seen it show up on the internet yet so we'll see. But the report is that, on the same day that Trump said a military plane couldn't be used for Pelosi to go on an official trip to Afghanistan, he approved having a military plane fly Melania to Florida for no government purpose whatsoever. Yes I know one can try to make arguments for why the situations are different, why it's OK, etc. But it's not going to fly when people see that.

The guy is a complete idiot.

[AZGrizFan]

Not really. He needs a CR for the other 60% of Government in September.

You think he'll stop Social Security payments and defense contractors?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

What he needs is a face saving way to get out of this and I think the Democrats should be looking for ways to give it to him. For the good of the country I mean.

Since when have you cared about the good of the country. You’ve been openly advocating for an economic meltdown for the past 18 months just to ensure Trump doesn’t get reelected.

[AZGrizFan]

I admire Griz football and wish them all the best except when they chose to play us.

Kalm: his rareness as a tree-hugging hippie of decency is only outweighed by his rareness as an EWU fan of decency

And to have the combination of those two in ONE person...he’s like a fucking unicorn!

[AZGrizFan]

A perspective very close to where I stand...

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/john-st ... government

We need some government, limited government. But most of life, the best of life, goes on without government, many of the best parts in spite of government.

Of course, the shutdown is a big deal to the 800,000 people who aren’t being paid. But they will get paid. Government workers always do -- after shutdowns.

Columnist Paul Krugman calls this shutdown, “Trump’s big libertarian experiment.” But it’s not libertarian. Government’s excessive rules are still in effect, and eventually government workers will be paid for not working. That makes this a most un-libertarian experiment.

During shutdowns, government tells “nonessential workers” not to come to work. But if they’re nonessential, then why do we pay 400,000 of them?
But there are lessons to be learned.

During a shutdown when Barack Obama was president, government officials were so eager to make a point by inconveniencing people that they even stopped visitors from entering public parks.

Trump’s administration isn’t doing that, so PBS found a new crisis: “Trash cans spilling… (P)ark services can’t clean up the mess until Congress and the president reach a spending deal,” reported “NewsHour.”

But volunteers appeared to pick up some of the trash.

Given a chance, private citizens often step in to do things government says only government can do.

The Washington Post ran a front-page headline about farmers “reeling… because they aren’t receiving government support checks.”

But why do farmers even get “support checks”?

One justification is “saving family farms.” But the money goes to big farms.

Government doesn’t need to “guarantee the food supply,” another justification for subsidies. Most fruit and vegetable farmers get no subsidies, yet there are no shortages of peaches, plums, green beans, etc.

Subsidies are a scam created by politicians who get money from wheat, cotton, corn and soybean agribusinesses. Those farmers should suck it up and live without subsidies, too.

During shutdowns, government tells “nonessential workers” not to come to work. But if they’re nonessential, then why do we pay 400,000 of them?

Why do we still pay 100,000 American soldiers in Germany, Japan, Italy and England? Didn’t we win those wars?

We could take a chainsaw to so much of government.

[HI54UNI]

[93henfan]

JFC. Now Trump's DOL doesn't want to allow TSA workers to claim unemployment benefits. Are you fucking kidding me?

This is just cruel. I mean, I know Trump has no shame or compassion, but he just keeps lowering the bar. What an absolutely despicable human being he is.

The Trump Administration has told California and seven other states that they cannot offer unemployment benefits to federal workers who aren’t getting a paycheck.

Gov. Gavin Newsom last week encouraged thousands of California workers furloughed due to the federal government shutdown to apply for unemployment insurance, vowing that “we’ll cover you – we have your back.”

But Wednesday, the California Employment Development Department was among those sent a memo from the Department of Labor which states that federal employees who are working without pay “are not unemployed and are, therefore, not eligible for UCFE” (Unemployment Compensation for Federal Employees).

Newsom called it “about as extraordinary a letter I ever received” at an appearance at the Sacramento International Airport on Thursday.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 23765.html

[CAA Flagship]

I admire Griz football and wish them all the best except when they chose to play us.

Kalm: his rareness as a tree-hugging hippie of decency is only outweighed by his rareness as an EWU fan of decency

THIS





can all be debated.

[Ibanez]

The pressure is mounting on Trump though, and not on the Democrats. Time is not Trump's friend on this.

By the way, I am finally seeing some hard numbers on people affected. Other than the 800K (out of 2M) federal civilians not getting paid, the number of contractors and grantees currently not working is 4.1 million. So right now, Trump has taken away the paychecks of 5 million people with his wall demand.

All dems have to do is fund a piddly $5B for the wall/fence/barrier and everyone goes back to work.

But it isn't just $5B. It's $5B today.

Border security is one thing and the Democrats are on board with it. It's this BS over a wall. A fucking wall.

[∞∞∞]

JFC. Now Trump's DOL doesn't want to allow TSA workers to claim unemployment benefits. Are you **** kidding me?

This is just cruel. I mean, I know Trump has no shame or compassion, but he just keeps lowering the bar. What an absolutely despicable human being he is.

The Trump Administration has told California and seven other states that they cannot offer unemployment benefits to federal workers who aren’t getting a paycheck.

Gov. Gavin Newsom last week encouraged thousands of California workers furloughed due to the federal government shutdown to apply for unemployment insurance, vowing that “we’ll cover you – we have your back.”

But Wednesday, the California Employment Development Department was among those sent a memo from the Department of Labor which states that federal employees who are working without pay “are not unemployed and are, therefore, not eligible for UCFE” (Unemployment Compensation for Federal Employees).

Newsom called it “about as extraordinary a letter I ever received” at an appearance at the Sacramento International Airport on Thursday.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 23765.html

What. The. F*ck?

edit: I'm thinking the shutdown may just be the admin's ridiculous way to reduce the federal gov't.

[Ibanez]

I don’t know about that.

I think way too many people - Dems, Republicans, independents, everybody - are working from the assumption that Trump gives a flying fvck...

Either the GOP in the Senate has a rebellion, or Pelosi caves on the wall, but Trump isn’t going to cave. He can do this straight on until 2020.

Not really. He needs a CR for the other 60% of Government in September.

You think he'll stop Social Security payments and defense contractors?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

SS recipients support him and think he's doing a great job. THey'd be happy to struggle and stress over money if it means we have less and less immigrants coming into this country. Goddamn immigrants!