How Long Will The Shutdown Last? (Dec 2018)

[houndawg]

Ok back to the topic at hand. My JSOesque take on all this (most probably has been said already).
1. Physical barriers can be effective if done right. Otherwise fences & walls wouldn’t exist. Example would be the Israeli’s 400+ miles of fencing/wall.
2. Sucks for the fed employees, but at least they will all be paid, and only missed 1 paycheck so far. Sucks worse for the contractors & vendors.
3. Most of the American public has felt little to no effect of the shutdown- yet.
4. Plurality of the voters have a short attention span. Oct 2013 shutdown I remember hearing political talking heads pontificate about how the partial govt shutdown was going to hurt conks in the 2014 midterms. A year later conks ended up gaining seats in the 2014 midterms. 21 months before the 2020 elections is an ETERNITY.
5. While Trump might lose 2020 in part because of the partial govt shutdown, 100% chance Trump loses 2020 if he mostly caves now on his signature campaign issue- he’ll lose his base.
6. Zero chance Trump gets physical barrier funding, or meaningful border security, in the future, if he totally caves now.
7. Pelosi & Reed refusing barrier funding is because of 5 words: TRUMP. They’ve voted for it in the past (2006 & 2013). They hate Trump (the feeling is mutual) and the people who voted for him. They know no “wall” = Trump loses his base support and loses 2020, and that is their #1 priority above all else. If it was any other conk they’d be more willing to compromise.
8. Both sides need to compromise at this point. An offer by Pelosi & Shumer of $0 or $1 dollar isn’t a compromise. Trump might have to settle for less than 5.7 billion and offer something like DACA.

This.

First some payback, then they can shove the wall up his ass at their leisure.

[houndawg]

Why must Pelosi and Trump play this game? The solution is obvious:

Trump gives: permanent (not 3-year) DACA and TSP protection
Pelosi gives: $3.5B for border security (halfway between her $1.3B and Trump's $5.7B)

This is not hard.

What SHOULD happen is McConnell should support passing an appropriations bill then over riding a presidential veto if necessary. If he decided to do that and told Trump he's going to do it Trump would probably fold. And if Trump didn't fold McConnell could almost certainly develop enough support in the Senate to over ride. What we need is for the Congress to slap Trump down so he understands that this extortion tactic is not going to work. If that happened things would go a lot more smoothly in the future.

Trump left McConnell with egg on his face when he reneged on the last deal. Mitch ain't gonna let that happen again

[houndawg]

I think it's fine, as long as the money doesn't go to the wall. Doubt Trump takes it.

Ok, it goes to a “fence”.

Guess where the steel will come from, comrade.

[houndawg]

No, it's not because the Democrats want to fund all of the agencies not related to this issue then negotiate. Trump is saying no funding for those agencies until he gets what he wants. He's the hostage taker. No doubt about it.

As I've written before: The Democrats do or should reasonably think that if they give in to this extortion tactic once they will see it again and again.

Except the donks do not want to negotiate. He funds those angencies, they laugh and walk away. Guaranteed.

They have a lot of payback to take care of first, and doughboy brought it on himself.

[houndawg]

Yeah those women and children, they're all terrorists. Damn them tunneling under the border and peacefully waiting for CBP to show up and detain them; we should've blown them up instead. #notmurder

Here we have people who believe in the American Dream so much they're willing to walk thousands of dangerous miles for a chance at it. It's a shame so many Americans view this as un-American.

Maybe if embassies, consulates, or ports of entry actually allowed asylum seekers to turn themselves in, people wouldn't have to resort to desperate acts.[/quote

Fix their own **** country or come here legally. There is no compromise Trump gets it!

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A lot of them are here because we fixed their country.


Dumb squat.

[houndawg]

Except America isn't your personal home. It's just a big f*cking piece of land.

Its our land and we have **** laws to follow. It should be do it or go out cold.

This problem is easily fixed if you are not a **** pussy. Trump gets it and is gonna get it fixed.

Lock up a few employers and the "problem" disappears overnight. Then you have nobody to work at Mar-a-Lago.

[houndawg]

I never broke any law last year but this year is going to be a lot different since laws don't matter anymore.

I just want to fit in with you liberal **** heads

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You'll need penis enhancement surgery if you want to look like you belong.

[houndawg]

I can't wait to take your guns!

Molon Labe......... And I want YOU to do it.

I know you are the kind of douche that runs his mouth then wants somebody else to do the heavy lifting. Please try

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The drones will do the heavy lifting.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I never broke any law last year but this year is going to be a lot different since laws don't matter anymore.

I just want to fit in with you liberal **** heads

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You'll need penis enhancement surgery if you want to look like you belong.

You mean neuter myself so I can be like your ilk.........

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[css75]

I never broke any law last year but this year is going to be a lot different since laws don't matter anymore.

I just want to fit in with you liberal **** heads

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With Trump in charge you're right....laws don't matter anymore.

I am looking forward to the free-for-all. I love gorilla warfare on social media.

The word is guerrilla, not gorilla which is an animal. No fee for the grade school level lesson.


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[houndawg]

You'll need penis enhancement surgery if you want to look like you belong.

You mean neuter myself so I can be like your ilk.........

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no I mean have them sew a scrotum onto your vagina

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

You mean neuter myself so I can be like your ilk.........

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no I mean have them sew a scrotum onto your vagina

Alpha

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[JohnStOnge]

7. Pelosi & Reed refusing barrier funding is because of 5 words: TRUMP. They’ve voted for it in the past (2006 & 2013). They hate Trump (the feeling is mutual) and the people who voted for him.

Regardless of their motivation, there is a sound basis for Democrats taking the position that the government has to be opened before they negotiate. I've written it before and you know what it is. Trump is using an extortion tactic. This $5.7 billion is a first installment. If this tactic works for him this time he likely to do it again.

Also, I've seen it before but I don't think that "they voted for it in the past" argument is valid. Voting for a specific barrier proposal in 2006 does not mean one is being inconsistent by refusing to vote for a different barrier proposal in 2018. You can agree with having a barrier system of a certain scope and say you don't want to expand the scope.

With respect to the 2013 thing: That was the Gang of Eight thing. The Democrats in the Senate voted for barrier in exchange for a path to citizenship for 11 million illegal aliens. I've seen this disingenuous argument from Ted C r u z by virtue of him saying "they voted for it in 2013." Well, you know what? Ted C r u z DIDN'T vote for it in 2013. And the Republicans in the House killed the bill. Does that mean C r u z and other Republicans are being inconsistent by virtue of wanting to vote for barrier now? Of course not.

Let Trump and the Republicans say they're going to give a path to citizenship for 11 million illegal aliens now in exchange for $5.7 million in wall funding. Let them say "OK we'll do the Gang of Eight thing." If the Democrats say "no" to that THEN you can say they're being inconsistent.

[Ibanez]

So Trump was all about putting coal workers back to work but doesn’t give two shits about the currently employed federal workers.



Seems legit. What a sad sack of shitte.


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[AZGrizFan]

So Trump was all about putting coal workers back to work but doesn’t give two shits about the currently employed federal workers.



Seems legit. What a sad sack of shitte.


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And vice versa....

[css75]

7. Pelosi & Reed refusing barrier funding is because of 5 words: TRUMP. They’ve voted for it in the past (2006 & 2013). They hate Trump (the feeling is mutual) and the people who voted for him.

Regardless of their motivation, there is a sound basis for Democrats taking the position that the government has to be opened before they negotiate. I've written it before and you know what it is. Trump is using an extortion tactic. This $5.7 billion is a first installment. If this tactic works for him this time he likely to do it again.

Also, I've seen it before but I don't think that "they voted for it in the past" argument is valid. Voting for a specific barrier proposal in 2006 does not mean one is being inconsistent by refusing to vote for a different barrier proposal in 2018. You can agree with having a barrier system of a certain scope and say you don't want to expand the scope.

With respect to the 2013 thing: That was the Gang of Eight thing. The Democrats in the Senate voted for barrier in exchange for a path to citizenship for 11 million illegal aliens. I've seen this disingenuous argument from Ted C r u z by virtue of him saying "they voted for it in 2013." Well, you know what? Ted C r u z DIDN'T vote for it in 2013. And the Republicans in the House killed the bill. Does that mean C r u z and other Republicans are being inconsistent by virtue of wanting to vote for barrier now? Of course not.

Let Trump and the Republicans say they're going to give a path to citizenship for 11 million illegal aliens now in exchange for $5.7 million in wall funding. Let them say "OK we'll do the Gang of Eight thing." If the Democrats say "no" to that THEN you can say they're being inconsistent.

Really John, is there nothing else in your life?


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[mainejeff]

MAGAtards don't care about the President using extortion because they don't care about laws, government or this country. They want THEIR version of America....ruled by guns, lawlessness and anything that makes THEM feel good about themselves. They always blame someone else for their problems. Really pathetic stuff.

They are all good "Christians" and "Patriots" though.....LOL.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

MAGAtards don't care about the President using extortion because they don't care about laws, government or this country. They want THEIR version of America....ruled by guns, lawlessness and anything that makes THEM feel good about themselves. They always blame someone else for their problems. Really pathetic stuff.

They are all good "Christians" and "Patriots" though.....LOL.

So

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[Grizalltheway]

I never broke any law last year but this year is going to be a lot different since laws don't matter anymore.

I just want to fit in with you liberal fuck heads

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Yeah. Okay. Just make sure you're home before dark, munchkin.

[SDHornet]

Trump himself created the DACA/TPS issues; I'd tell Trump trump to F off and let the courts decide. So far, the courts have been on the side of DACA/TPS.

You're right though, let him think this is negotiable after opening the gov't.

Wait

Remind me again who created the dreamers by executive fiat... in circumvention of the INA (i.e.: US LAW)

I knew Trump was responsible for tennis elbow and WWII but I didn’t realize he was also responsible for DACA


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Trip fail.

Leftists thinking that phone and a pen thing actually is legit for all circumstances.

[SDHornet]

Yes, nothing is perfect. That’s why I advocate two short (6’) fences, about 50’ apart, with land mines between them.

So you advocate murder. Noted.

Says the abortionist...

[SDHornet]

Why must Pelosi and Trump play this game? The solution is obvious:

Trump gives: permanent (not 3-year) DACA and TSP protection
Pelosi gives: $3.5B for border security (halfway between her $1.3B and Trump's $5.7B)

This is not hard.

Agree. But for permanent protection, full wall/fence/barrier and port of entry security enhancements.

[SDHornet]

Republicans want to destroy Democrats and Trump wants to destroy government/America. This is vengeful theater at its best....too bad so many real people are being hurt.

So did you say the same thing when Conks only controlled the House under Obama and a Donk controlled Senate?

Asking for a friend.

[SDHornet]

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[SDHornet]

I'm on record for an open border. Hell I'd love an EU-type system in the Americas.

As far as I'm concerned, go the other way and tear down everything we have now.

Go to the EU if you want open borders. Quit fucking up our country

This.