How Long Will The Shutdown Last? (Dec 2018)

[JohnStOnge]

LoL at the idea of sticking it to Trump by denying him a SOTU. The guy declare he's going to have an address atop Mount Erebus and all the major networks would send crews there to show it.

Then, based on reasonable expectations derived from how things have been going lately, he would have an epic fail. He'd lie a lot and all of the major networks would call him on it. His nut job cultists would refuse to believe the major networks with respect to him lying a lot but most other people would. So on and so forth.

Pelosi appears to be in the process of cutting Trump's balls off. And it's very public. She's humiliating him. He's just not smart enough to realize it yet.

[Ivytalk]

So on and so forth.

Five words that describe every JSO post.

[HI54UNI]

Vote on a continuing resolution that would pay employees during the shutdown. Note this was to keep paying during the shutdown, not the vote to give back pay when the shutdown is over.



http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll043.xml

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4258 ... government

[mainejeff]

Leave it to a woman to have actual balls to stand up to Trump. God knows that the Raisinets in the Senate don't!

[HI54UNI]

Voted again today. A few more Democrats voted yes but still didn't pass it.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll048 ... -147441745

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

JSO is right. Trump is nothing if not completely predictable and elementary.

I think it's awesome that Pelosi shut him out of the House. Trump doesn't deserve a traditional SOTU with the government closed because he flip flopped after listening to Rush Limbaugh, leaving 800,000 civilian and 43,000 military families without pay for over a month.

I will drink a toast to every negative thing that happens to Trump and his family for the rest of my life for what he has done to my family. We deserve better.

Yep. I'm amazed at the people on the right that can't see this. The facts on border security are squarely against him. All of this for a wall.

Oh, and let's now add people that operate Sec. 8 housing to the list of those affected b/c now they'll have to start evicting people in order to pay their mortgages.

Trump needs to go.

He will in 6 more years, deal with it!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[mainejeff]

Yep. I'm amazed at the people on the right that can't see this. The facts on border security are squarely against him. All of this for a wall.

Oh, and let's now add people that operate Sec. 8 housing to the list of those affected b/c now they'll have to start evicting people in order to pay their mortgages.

Trump needs to go.

He will in 6 more years, deal with it!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[JohnStOnge]

Vote on a continuing resolution that would pay employees during the shutdown. Note this was to keep paying during the shutdown, not the vote to give back pay when the shutdown is over.



http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll043.xml

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4258 ... government

I think the Democrats maybe should have voted for that in order to call the Republicans' bluff. I think if it'd have passed Trump would've vetoed it because he'd lose his leverage. But at the same time I can see a reason for them not doing it because they'd have had to vote to continue the shutdown.

Also when I read about such a House Republican proposal before the Republican proposal was not to pay furloughed workers but instead to pay excepted workers who are having to work without pay. There is something to be said for that but if that's what it is you still have about 400,000 people who are in limbo not getting paid. I've been trying to see if this is something different or if maybe The Hill was not quite accurate in referring to "furloughed workers."

[JohnStOnge]

Vote on a continuing resolution that would pay employees during the shutdown. Note this was to keep paying during the shutdown, not the vote to give back pay when the shutdown is over.



http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll043.xml

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4258 ... government

Ok. I looked at the House record and it looks to me like this is what happened: A Democrat, Nita Lowey of New York, introduced a proposal to fund certain agencies. Republicans made a "motion to recommit with instructions" which would've changed it to voting for just paying Federal employees (still don't know if it was all or just excepted employees). That's when they had the "Roll number 43" vote. Democrats didn't go for it.

But they didn't vote against the original joint resolution. They were voting on a Republican effort to change it. And to vote for what the Republicans wanted they'd have had to vote to keep the partial government shutdown in place.

I still think there is an argument for them calling the Republicans' bluff. But they'd have had to vote to keep the partial shutdown in place so I can understand why they didn't do it.

Here's the history: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-con ... losed#tabs

[93henfan]

Vote on a continuing resolution that would pay employees during the shutdown. Note this was to keep paying during the shutdown, not the vote to give back pay when the shutdown is over.



http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll043.xml

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4258 ... government

Ok. I looked at the House record and it looks to me like this is what happened: A Democrat, Nita Lowey of New York, introduced a proposal to fund certain agencies. Republicans made a "motion to recommit with instructions" which would've changed it to voting for just paying Federal employees (still don't know if it was all or just excepted employees). That's when they had the "Roll number 43" vote. Democrats didn't go for it.

But they didn't vote against the original joint resolution. They were voting on a Republican effort to change it. And to vote for what the Republicans wanted they'd have had to vote to keep the partial government shutdown in place.

I still think there is an argument for them calling the Republicans' bluff. But they'd have had to vote to keep the partial shutdown in place so I can understand why they didn't do it.

Here's the history: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-con ... losed#tabs

Right. That whole roll call was a Republican PR stunt so they could make disingenuous Tweets that they voted to pay workers and Democrats blocked it. The entire Democrat stance from the get-go is that both parties voted on a CR and then Trump flip-flopped on signing it after he listened to Rush Limbaugh from 9am-1pm the morning he was supposed to sign. Since then, the Democrats have stated that the Government must be reopened, per what the Republicans agreed to on Dec 22, and then they will negotiate border security.

#TrumpShutdown #FlipFlopperInChief #LyingMotherfucker

[AZGrizFan]

you are starting to sound like JSO.

Get help.

[93henfan]

you are starting to sound like JSO.

Get help.

Just telling the truth. And going a month (so far) without a paycheck.

And, quite frankly, JSO has been spot-on correct about Trump since Day 1.

[houndawg]

So Pelosi is saying Trump is not invited to the the Capitol for the SOTU speech.
So if Trump decides to do a speech on TV from the WH, I guess he doesn't have to give the Dems an advanced copy for them to give a post-speech response.
That would be some great theater watching them scramble to respond.

So far Pelosi has been ahead of him every step of the way.


Trump can give the SOTU from anywhere he wants but after his last debacle of a non-speech he may not get as much air time as he'd like, and besides, Nancy will have cameras at the House and a rebuttal ready. She'll get plenty air time after the way she sent him to bed without supper.

[houndawg]

So Pelosi is saying Trump is not invited to the the Capitol for the SOTU speech.
So if Trump decides to do a speech on TV from the WH, I guess he doesn't have to give the Dems an advanced copy for them to give a post-speech response.
That would be some great theater watching them scramble to respond.

JSO is right. Trump is nothing if not completely predictable and elementary.

I think it's awesome that Pelosi shut him out of the House. Trump doesn't deserve a traditional SOTU with the government closed because he flip flopped after listening to Rush Limbaugh, leaving 800,000 civilian and 43,000 military families without pay for over a month.

I will drink a toast to every negative thing that happens to Trump and his family for the rest of my life for what he has done to my family. We deserve better.

I think it was Ann Coulter had more impact - she said "frog!" and his fat ass hopped, and pronto. Women with power just send him over the edge - but I think in his own way he's kinda of enjoying a thrill having a dominant female like Nancy turn him over her knee and send him to bed without supper.

[JohnStOnge]

Vote on a continuing resolution that would pay employees during the shutdown. Note this was to keep paying during the shutdown, not the vote to give back pay when the shutdown is over.



http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll043.xml

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4258 ... government

Ok. I found the actual motion to recommit they were voting on and it's another example of deceptive crap on the part of the right when they say Republicans wanted to really grant relief to Federal employees. All it was was a motion to change the end date of the CR to January 15...which had already passed..from February 28. So it would've meant funding for government was approved through then and they could go back and pay Federal employees for the one paycheck they missed. But they they'd be right back in the same uncertainty boat for the future.

I tell you what, the scales have really fallen from my eyes over the past couple of years with respect to just how disingenuous and dishonest they are. Also their allies in the conservative media.

I started really wondering about it when I saw the House record and saw that it didn't say anything about the motion to recommit being about paying Federal employees. It just says it was to change the end date for the CR to a date that had already passed. Then I found a video of the woman explaining her motion at https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4774752/ ... n-recommit.

What a bunch of slimy, lying bastards the Republicans have become.

[∞∞∞]

you are starting to sound like JSO.

Get help.

While repetitive and wordy, JSO has been spot on.

[JohnStOnge]

you are starting to sound like JSO.

Get help.

He's also telling the truth. The Republican motion was not to pay Federal employees per se. It was to change the end date for the Continuing Resolution from February 28 to January 15. That would have given Federal employees the paycheck they missed but also would mean they'd be right back in limbo wondering about the next paycheck and the future. The original Democrat proposal would ALSO have given them their last paycheck but ALSO would've guaranteed their next paycheck and provide hope that they wouldn't miss any OTHER paychecks for a while.

To cast that situation as Democrats voting NOT to give Federal employees a paycheck is COMPLETELY dishonest. They DID vote to give them that paycheck as well as their NEXT paycheck while the Republican proposal didn't do that.

It's really getting bad with the Republicans and the Right. I spent most of my life railing against the dishonesty of the Left but the Right is really, really bad about it at this time.

[JohnStOnge]

you are starting to sound like JSO.

Get help.

While repetitive and wordy, JSO has been spot on.

You have to make some effort to find out what's really going. Sometimes you have to get wordy to adequately describe it. But here is the thing: I am a person who has been a conservative for a long time. I'd say for 40+ years. And people who have seen me posting on message boards have seen me take conservative positions for a long time.

But what's happened for the past few years with Republicans and conservatism is not acceptable. It's bad. It's dishonest. And I think the true test of any individual is the question of whether he or she will call out his or her "own" when they are clearly wrong.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

you are starting to sound like JSO.

Get help.

While repetitive and wordy, JSO has been spot on.

If fucking idiot is what you are going for....... then you finally nailed a post to the wall about JSO

[AZGrizFan]

While repetitive and wordy, JSO has been spot on.

You have to make some effort to find out what's really going. Sometimes you have to get wordy to adequately describe it. But here is the thing: I am a person who has been a conservative for a long time. I'd say for 40+ years. And people who have seen me posting on message boards have seen me take conservative positions for a long time.

But what's happened for the past few years with Republicans and conservatism is not acceptable. It's bad. It's dishonest. And I think the true test of any individual is the question of whether he or she will call out his or her "own" when they are clearly wrong.

You can’t call yourself a conservative and even remotely support 90% of the ideas proposed by the left. It is possible to dislike Trump and still be a conservative. The true test of any individual is whether they identify themselves by some mythical party designation.

[AZGrizFan]

you are starting to sound like JSO.

Get help.

Just telling the truth. And going a month (so far) without a paycheck.

And, quite frankly, JSO has been spot-on correct about Trump since Day 1.

Dont’ make me list all the positive things he’s accomplished.

Yah, the shutdown is pretty much bullshit, but it hardly negates all the positive things he’s accomplished despite the left’s best efforts.

[JohnStOnge]

You have to make some effort to find out what's really going. Sometimes you have to get wordy to adequately describe it. But here is the thing: I am a person who has been a conservative for a long time. I'd say for 40+ years. And people who have seen me posting on message boards have seen me take conservative positions for a long time.

But what's happened for the past few years with Republicans and conservatism is not acceptable. It's bad. It's dishonest. And I think the true test of any individual is the question of whether he or she will call out his or her "own" when they are clearly wrong.

You can’t call yourself a conservative and even remotely support 90% of the ideas proposed by the left. It is possible to dislike Trump and still be a conservative. The true test of any individual is whether they identify themselves by some mythical party designation.

Donald Trump has corrupted the conservative movement in general and the Republican Party in particular. Yes there have been some principled conservatives who have not capitulated. People like George Will and William Kristol and Nichole Wallace and Jeff Flake. But for the most part they've made a Faustian Bargain to accept all of the dishonesty and corruption in exchange for power.

And in this case the Republicans are clearly wrong. Refusing to fund government agencies like the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Health and Human Services in order to help a childish President keep a campaign promise he didn't even understand when he was making it is wrong (leaving aside the fact that part of the promise was that Mexico was going to pay for it). Being dishonest about stuff like the vote on H.R. 28 that we've been discussing is wrong. Supporting a totally corrupt, totally dishonest, and emotionally disturbed person in the President's position is wrong.

I mean really. The Democrats propose giving Federal employees their last paycheck while guaranteeing their next paycheck and providing hope that further disruption can be avoided. The Republicans move to JUST give them their last paycheck while leaving them in limbo for the future. The Democrats knock that down and stick with the original proposal to give them their last paycheck along with their next one. THEN the Republicans cast that as the DEMOCRATS voting not to give employees their last paycheck. I'm sorry, but that's REALLY dishonest. It's bad.

[SDHornet]

This afternoon, I met a furniture rep that deals with the GSA. To keep him busy, his company is having him give product demonstrations to clients that aren't his (which is how we met). However any sales still go to the rep which deals with that client.

Said he's hurting bad since he relies on commissions.

Selling furniture to the government?

There's an example of someone who should have saved money for a rainy day. The furniture companies like Drexel have honey deals with the gov.... they charge 5 and 6 times what they do for the same pieces in a showroom (and usually the ugly crap they can't sell to the public). Their reps are WELL commissioned... hell, this guy is in an income bracket you would love to tax into oblivion, Treep

So join me in having little sympathy

Exactly what came to my mind.

[SDHornet]

If you support Trump, you are not right.

Support in what way? I didn't vote for him. I probably won't vote for him if he runs again. I think he is his own worst enemy. I am glad Hillary was not elected. I enjoy how angry he makes otherwise rational people.

[AZGrizFan]

There you go again. Acting like only one side is dishonest. What would you have the Republicans do? Impeach him because they don’t like him? I mean, FFS present an alternative instead of just bitching.

And as far as I’m concerned, they could stop funding the Dept of Ag permanently. Along with HLS, Dept of Ed, and EPA to name a few.

They’ve already said the workers are getting all their back pay once this (inevitably) ends. Last check, next check, whatever. Shutdowns have become a “thing”, and not just during Trump’s presidency. If I were a government worker I’d make sure I had 90 days of reserves for contingencies just like this...because it’s not going to get better, no matter who is president. This is our new reality, ushered in by your (now) hero, Obama. Purely partisan politics, with zero room for compromise.

And look up RINO in the dictionary....there’s Jeff Flake’s picture next to it.