How Long Will The Shutdown Last? (Dec 2018)

[SDHornet]

I found these interesting





So, last year we had less than 400k people cross over illegally but we have more Canadians staying illegally than the next two countries combined.

Trumps also holding over 1 M workers hostage (Fed and contractors) to solve what? It's not crossings. Everyone agrees that the legal ports of entry need the money, not new sections of a wall. Trump and his stupid **** face base...

Border crossings last year were way down over uncertainty with the Trump admin’s intentions regarding asylum hearings, TPS, whether or not bring a kid was beneficial, etc-

But part of your assertion shows how desensitized we have become to illegal immigration- 400,000 people is a big number. We cant completely stop it but we can improve on it. But if 400,000 cross over each year, and we manage to 9A half of them and the other half disappear... guess where we are again in 20 years? Talking about Dreamers.

Trump says a lot of dumb and untrue things about his wall but an enhanced physical barrier IS a part of the larger solution. Even Steny Hoyer conceded this point yesterday (and I’m sure he’s getting a scolding today)


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This. Anyone thinking a wall/fence/barrier won't inhibit the amount of illegals/drugs/crime crossing the border is off their rocker.

[SDHornet]

Vote on a continuing resolution that would pay employees during the shutdown. Note this was to keep paying during the shutdown, not the vote to give back pay when the shutdown is over.



http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll043.xml

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4258 ... government

Yeah, it's all Trumps fault.

[SDHornet]

So Pelosi is saying Trump is not invited to the the Capitol for the SOTU speech.
So if Trump decides to do a speech on TV from the WH, I guess he doesn't have to give the Dems an advanced copy for them to give a post-speech response.
That would be some great theater watching them scramble to respond.

So far Pelosi has been ahead of him every step of the way.

Like when she tried to leave the country and Trump revoked usage of a military plane to do so? Yeah, well played there by Pelosi.

[SDHornet]

Donald Trump has corrupted the conservative movement in general and the Republican Party in particular.

What conservative movement might that be? Seriously, exactly how is/was America moving to be more conservative leading up to the Trump election?

[css75]

So Pelosi is saying Trump is not invited to the the Capitol for the SOTU speech.
So if Trump decides to do a speech on TV from the WH, I guess he doesn't have to give the Dems an advanced copy for them to give a post-speech response.
That would be some great theater watching them scramble to respond.

They don't need an advanced copy. Trump is actually pretty predictable in terms of what one would expect him to say. To me the Democrats could very easily craft a response based on some basic points:

1) Trump lies a lot. They could also go ahead and fact check some of what he says based on the reasonable assumption that he's going to lie again and stick a few note on that in. But, really, they don't even have to do that. They could just talk about the past established record of how frequently he lies.

2) The economy is pretty much a continuation of what it was before Trump got elected. They could even be prepared with some graphs of job creation and unemployment rate to make their case. Yes, the economy is OK but it was OK before he got elected. Most of the drop in unemployment happened before he got elected and the job creation rate was about the same before he got elected as it's been afterwards. He's almost certainly going to talk about how low the unemployment rate is so some of those graphs we've all seen of unemployment rates over time would be very useful. Would probably be good to be prepared to show both a graph of overall rate one of Black rate.

3) Now he's started trade wars so that the economy may NOT be OK in the near future. Cite reports on fears about the world economy.

4) Income inequality is increasing. No, I don't personally think income inequality in and of itself is a bad thing but talking about it would probably work for them because most people are offended by it.

5) Trump is using extortion to get his wall. We can't give in to an extortion tactic. If he gets what he wants it's going to happen again and we'll be dealing with more shutdowns in the future. As a matter of principle we need to open the government so that extortion is off the table THEN negotiate.

AND they need to pick someone who can deliver the presentation effectively without looking like a deer in the headlights, stiff, or anything like that. That's probably the most important thing of all. They also need to pick a setting that's not someone standing up in space looking at the camera. As I said before: They need to let professionals design the presentation atmosphere.

Brevity John, brevity please. Got too much to do than read your repetitive books.


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[css75]

There you go again. Acting like only one side is dishonest. What would you have the Republicans do? Impeach him because they don’t like him? I mean, FFS present an alternative instead of just bitching.

And as far as I’m concerned, they could stop funding the Dept of Ag permanently. Along with HLS, Dept of Ed, and EPA to name a few.

They’ve already said the workers are getting all their back pay once this (inevitably) ends. Last check, next check, whatever. Shutdowns have become a “thing”, and not just during Trump’s presidency. If I were a government worker I’d make sure I had 90 days of reserves for contingencies just like this...because it’s not going to get better, no matter who is president. This is our new reality, ushered in by your (now) hero, Obama. Purely partisan politics, with zero room for compromise.

And look up RINO in the dictionary....there’s Jeff Flake’s picture next to it.

This, and the best thing is, there is no leftist in the WH.


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[∞∞∞]

Support in what way? I didn't vote for him. I probably won't vote for him if he runs again. I think he is his own worst enemy. I am glad Hillary was not elected. I enjoy how angry he makes otherwise rational people.

Perhaps rational people are angry because what Trump's doing is irrational. It's also super weird that you take pleasure in the anger of others.

Now here's the reality: the more insane Trump and the GOP behave, the more moderate and sensible people willing to consider other opinions and viewpoints leave the party. All you're left with is a dwindling pool of increasingly myopic and hard line voters.

[mainejeff]

Nancy Pelosi (or as Trump likes to call her...."Nancy" ) owned Trump yesterday. It was quite a pathetic display by Trump (or as I like to call him....Shithead) and self-proclaimed "deal maker" .

[93henfan]

Trump postpones SOTU until shutdown is over.

Point: Pelosi

[Ibanez]

I found these interesting





So, last year we had less than 400k people cross over illegally but we have more Canadians staying illegally than the next two countries combined.

Trumps also holding over 1 M workers hostage (Fed and contractors) to solve what? It's not crossings. Everyone agrees that the legal ports of entry need the money, not new sections of a wall. Trump and his stupid **** face base...

Border crossings last year were way down over uncertainty with the Trump admin’s intentions regarding asylum hearings, TPS, whether or not bring a kid was beneficial, etc-

But part of your assertion shows how desensitized we have become to illegal immigration- 400,000 people is a big number. We cant completely stop it but we can improve on it. But if 400,000 cross over each year, and we manage to 9A half of them and the other half disappear... guess where we are again in 20 years? Talking about Dreamers.

Trump says a lot of dumb and untrue things about his wall but an enhanced physical barrier IS a part of the larger solution. Even Steny Hoyer conceded this point yesterday (and I’m sure he’s getting a scolding today)


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I'm not against a barrier. Trump wants a wall to span to the entire border. At least that is what he has said and promised and then took back. So who the fuck knows. ~650 miles of the ~1,950 border has a wall/fence of some kind. There are 48 crossings with about 300 PoE. Much of the border that isn't walled is a river. Should sections be repaired/updated? Sure. Should some sections with high traffic be beefed up? Yes. We know the high traffic areas and where there are sometimes TWO walls (which also happened to have tunnels underneath them to sneak into the US). But the wall is only 1 part and I don't think it's the most important part of the solution.

But I think you'd agree that a wall will not do the job alone. I defer to your expertise but I still don't believe a wall like Trump wants is the answer.

On Fox News yesterday, the mayor of San Diego (R) was going on and on about the wall

[Ibanez]

Border crossings last year were way down over uncertainty with the Trump admin’s intentions regarding asylum hearings, TPS, whether or not bring a kid was beneficial, etc-

But part of your assertion shows how desensitized we have become to illegal immigration- 400,000 people is a big number. We cant completely stop it but we can improve on it. But if 400,000 cross over each year, and we manage to 9A half of them and the other half disappear... guess where we are again in 20 years? Talking about Dreamers.

Trump says a lot of dumb and untrue things about his wall but an enhanced physical barrier IS a part of the larger solution. Even Steny Hoyer conceded this point yesterday (and I’m sure he’s getting a scolding today)


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This. Anyone thinking a wall/fence/barrier won't inhibit the amount of illegals/drugs/crime crossing the border is off their rocker.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/po ... 613961002/

The largest single group of migrant families and minors ever recorded in the Yuma area tunneled underneath a border fence and voluntarily turned themselves in to U.S. Border Patrol agents, according to Customs and Border Protection officials in Arizona.

A wall is only part of the solution. We have walls. Let's work on something else.

[Ibanez]

So far Pelosi has been ahead of him every step of the way.

Like when she tried to leave the country and Trump revoked usage of a military plane to do so? Yeah, well played there by Pelosi.

Nothing burger. You do realize that trip was planned well before the shutdown, right? That was Trump being a petty little cunt. His revocation was nothing but pettiness. And then to announce that top officials are going to a war zone was just ridiculous. There's a reason why we rarely know that the POTUS or some top official is heading to a war zone in advance.

That was just theater to ignite his base and stick it to the Dems. Fucking pathetic. I used to give Trump and the GOP the benefit of the doubt, but that hasn't happened in over a year.

[Ibanez]

There you go again. Acting like only one side is dishonest. What would you have the Republicans do? Impeach him because they don’t like him? I mean, FFS present an alternative instead of just bitching.

And as far as I’m concerned, they could stop funding the Dept of Ag permanently. Along with HLS, Dept of Ed, and EPA to name a few.

They’ve already said the workers are getting all their back pay once this (inevitably) ends. Last check, next check, whatever. Shutdowns have become a “thing”, and not just during Trump’s presidency. If I were a government worker I’d make sure I had 90 days of reserves for contingencies just like this...because it’s not going to get better, no matter who is president. This is our new reality, ushered in by your (now) hero, Obama. Purely partisan politics, with zero room for compromise.

And look up RINO in the dictionary....there’s Jeff Flake’s picture next to it.

What did Obama usher in? Shutdowns or zero compromising?

If it's shutdowns, we only had 1 under Obama, about 2 under Clinton and at least 3 under Reagan.

If it's Partisan politics, well he did have to fight a GOP that said it's first duty was to deny him a 2nd term. Not do the will of the people or secure the border.

[Ibanez]

Maybe one of you can answer me this:

If the border wall is so necessary, then why didn't Trump get it down when he had control of both houses? Why couldn't he get it done then?

[Ibanez]

Trump postpones SOTU until shutdown is over.

Point: Pelosi

I just read that. It appears he's not all piss and vinegar.

[mainejeff]

Maybe one of you can answer me this:

If the border wall is so necessary, then why didn't Trump get it down when he had control of both houses? Why couldn't he get it done then?

Because it would score no political points.

[Ibanez]

Maybe one of you can answer me this:

If the border wall is so necessary, then why didn't Trump get it down when he had control of both houses? Why couldn't he get it done then?

Because it would score no political points.

Well right now Trump has given in to Pelosi. His base can't be happy

[mainejeff]

Because it would score no political points.

Well right now Trump has given in to Pelosi. His base can't be happy

Especially the ones that are working without pay.

[Ibanez]

Well right now Trump has given in to Pelosi. His base can't be happy

Especially the ones that are working without pay.

NO, haven't you heard. Those people are happy to be working for free and living with uncertainty.

[mainejeff]

Especially the ones that are working without pay.

NO, haven't you heard. Those people are happy to be working for free and living with uncertainty.

Donald Trump has never met a slave that he didn’t like.

[89Hen]

It's also super weird that you take pleasure in the anger of others.

No, it's not. The only person to blame for anger is the person getting angry Trip, so laughing over it is absolutely fine.

[89Hen]

Trump postpones SOTU until shutdown is over.

Point: Pelosi

TBD. The only place that matters is public opinion. Trump was already losing the public opinion battle over the shutdown. This move by Pelosi is closer to a Trump move than a smart one, so IMO it can only hurt her.

[UNI88]

Trump postpones SOTU until shutdown is over.

Point: Pelosi

TBD. The only place that matters is public opinion. Trump was already losing the public opinion battle over the shutdown. This move by Pelosi is closer to a Trump move than a smart one, so IMO it can only hurt her.

Donks think Pelosi is winning, Conks think Trump is winning. Independents probably hold Trump more responsible but think both sides are acting like spoiled children.

Trump has backed himself into a corner. The longer this drags out the worse he looks but he loses his leverage if he caves.

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[89Hen]

Donks think Pelosi is winning, Conks think Trump is winning. Independents probably hold Trump more responsible but think both sides are acting like spoiled children.

and that's why I wouldn't say point Pelosi yet.

[Grizalltheway]

Trump postpones SOTU until shutdown is over.

Point: Pelosi

TBD. The only place that matters is public opinion. Trump was already losing the public opinion battle over the shutdown. This move by Pelosi is closer to a Trump move than a smart one, so IMO it can only hurt her.

Pelosi doesn't have to worry about reelection as long as she's around. Trump is losing voters every day this goes on. Exhibit A: 93henfan.