Rep. Patrick Murphy introduces bill to repeal DADT

[Col Hogan]

bob... you still haven't answered the question that's far more pressing... while you are quick to dismiss grizza... what about the Congressman, Iraq War veteran, former west point professor and paratrooper who is saying this policy makes no sense?

Just so I understand....if one former Iraq war veteran...former West Point professor...former paratrooper...says X....does he speak for all...

Or is it only because he supports your position...cause I can come up with an Iraqi combat veteran who graduated from West Point and is a paratrooper who says Y....

[bobbythekidd]

bob... you still haven't answered the question that's far more pressing... while you are quick to dismiss grizza... what about the Congressman, Iraq War veteran, former west point professor and paratrooper who is saying this policy makes no sense?

First off he's a Congressman so whatever he says it is done to get more votes. Secondly, this is just one man's politically motovated opinion.

[bobbythekidd]

Dammit Jon! You have read every word of this thread. I know you're home and online now. GO AHEAD and say something.

[dbackjon]

Dammit Jon! You have read every word of this thread. I know you're home and online now. GO AHEAD and say something.

Sometimes, it is a lot more entertaining watching someone trolling with no response...

[bobbythekidd]

Sometimes, it is a lot more entertaining watching someone trolling with no response...

I'm not trolling Jon. I am completely serious. I'll add that a was a big fan of Gen Krulak's plan to pay bonuses to any enlisted person who remained single through their first enlistment.

[dbackjon]

Sometimes, it is a lot more entertaining watching someone trolling with no response...

I'm not trolling Jon. I am completely serious. I'll add that a was a big fan of Gen Krulak's plan to pay bonuses to any enlisted person who remained single through their first enlistment.

OK....


So why do you think having openly gay men (since you are opposed to women of any kind, or would lesbos be ok?) would be bad for the military?

[TwinTownBisonFan]

bob... you still haven't answered the question that's far more pressing... while you are quick to dismiss grizza... what about the Congressman, Iraq War veteran, former west point professor and paratrooper who is saying this policy makes no sense?

Just so I understand....if one former Iraq war veteran...former West Point professor...former paratrooper...says X....does he speak for all...

Or is it only because he supports your position...cause I can come up with an Iraqi combat veteran who graduated from West Point and is a paratrooper who says Y....

I'm pointing out that bobby dismisses the views of civilians as "uninformed" (which i dispute, but will let slide for now) - my point is, the ONLY Iraq War vet in Congress, a decorated paratrooper no less is calling for this - so how is it that someone with those credentials can reach a different conclusion? (Gen. Powell as well...)

[TwinTownBisonFan]

bob... you still haven't answered the question that's far more pressing... while you are quick to dismiss grizza... what about the Congressman, Iraq War veteran, former west point professor and paratrooper who is saying this policy makes no sense?

First off he's a Congressman so whatever he says it is done to get more votes. Secondly, this is just one man's politically motovated opinion.

first off... no, this isn't done to win points... the district he represents is so-so on the issue, and as for support from the glbt community, the guy has had their support from the beginning... so he's not really advancing himself with an interest group.

the guy seriously believes this is the best policy (i know this for a fact).

[TwinTownBisonFan]

I'm not trolling Jon. I am completely serious. I'll add that a was a big fan of Gen Krulak's plan to pay bonuses to any enlisted person who remained single through their first enlistment.

OK....


So why do you think having openly gay men (since you are opposed to women of any kind, or would lesbos be ok?) would be bad for the military?

many of the women i know in the military are gay (most actually) - for me it comes down to, "can they do the job" and the answer there is an unquestioned "yes"

[bobbythekidd]

OK....


So why do you think having openly gay men (since you are opposed to women of any kind, or would lesbos be ok?) would be bad for the military?

many of the women i know in the military are gay (most actually) - for me it comes down to, "can they do the job" and the answer there is an unquestioned "yes"

I'll question your YES. I've seen many that can't. They slow down processes, get favorable treatment, adhere to different standards, and require more stuff that keeps units, bases, ships from running a lean and efficient operation.

I am in the minority by a good bit, but I still advocate only straight single men should be in the military. I kinda sound like citdog on this, but Ireally think it is for the best.

[bobbythekidd]

I'm not trolling Jon. I am completely serious. I'll add that a was a big fan of Gen Krulak's plan to pay bonuses to any enlisted person who remained single through their first enlistment.

OK....


So why do you think having openly gay men (since you are opposed to women of any kind, or would lesbos be ok?) would be bad for the military?

No lesbos are not OK....Correction lesbos rock, but still should not be in the military. I don't advocate gay men for some of the same reasons I don't want women.

[dbackjon]

many of the women i know in the military are gay (most actually) - for me it comes down to, "can they do the job" and the answer there is an unquestioned "yes"

I'll question your YES. I've seen many that can't. They slow down processes, get favorable treatment, adhere to different standards, and require more stuff that keeps units, bases, ships from running a lean and efficient operation.

I am in the minority by a good bit, but I still advocate only straight single men should be in the military. I kinda sound like citdog on this, but Ireally think it is for the best.

I assume you are talking about women...


So if a soldier gets married, he is out?

[bobbythekidd]

I assume you are talking about women...


So if a soldier gets married, he is out?

I am referring to gay men and women. I referenced a plan that was struck down to pay bonuses to Marines that did not get married during their first enlistment. If they married, they just miss out on the money.

[dbackjon]

I assume you are talking about women...


So if a soldier gets married, he is out?

I am referring to gay men and women. I referenced a plan that was struck down to pay bonuses to Marines that did not get married during their first enlistment. If they married, they just miss out on the money.

So what extra stuff do gay men need? How do they slow down things? What different standards do they have for them?

[danefan]

many of the women i know in the military are gay (most actually) - for me it comes down to, "can they do the job" and the answer there is an unquestioned "yes"

I'll question your YES. I've seen many that can't. They slow down processes, get favorable treatment, adhere to different standards, and require more stuff that keeps units, bases, ships from running a lean and efficient operation.

I am in the minority by a good bit, but I still advocate only straight single men should be in the military. I kinda sound like citdog on this, but Ireally think it is for the best.

Don't you think that what you described is the fault of the particular military branch? Perhaps these women (and less manly men) are being assigned to jobs they aren't qualified for? There are plenty of jobs that less physically able people can do effectively in the military, don't you think? Especially now with computer based combat.

And I refer to "less manly men", which doesn't necessarily equate to gay men. My two brothers-in-law are special forces.....if they were gay they'd still be able to kill me just as quick and easily.

[Ibanez]

I am referring to gay men and women. I referenced a plan that was struck down to pay bonuses to Marines that did not get married during their first enlistment. If they married, they just miss out on the money.

So what extra stuff do gay men need? How do they slow down things? What different standards do they have for them?

Tonic, shaving oil, filing nails, hair dye, the latest issue of Vogue and US Weekley, Jimmy Choo combat boots, a cute tote, a Murse. It's better to leave the fighting to us "real" men.


I respect you and your position Bob, but I have to respectfully disagree. I know plenty of Marines that are in your camp and some that don't care. AS long as the guy or girl can do the job, it shouldn't matter.

[dbackjon]

So what extra stuff do gay men need? How do they slow down things? What different standards do they have for them?

Tonic, shaving oil, filing nails, hair dye, the latest issue of Vogue and US Weekley, Jimmy Choo combat boots, a cute tote, a Murse. It's better to leave the fighting to us "real" men.


I respect you and your position Bob, but I have to respectfully disagree. I know plenty of Marines that are in your camp and some that don't care. AS long as the guy or girl can do the job, it shouldn't matter.

One of the guys on Alex's softball team was in the Marines during Desert Storm. We met up with a few of his Marine buddies in Long Beach over the weekend during the tournament there - some straight, another one gay. None seemed to care.

[AZGrizFan]

I think he's been waiting for Congress to take the lead on it to be honest. He'll sign if it's passed.

Obama better not take that chickenshit way out. Since this was in his platform he needs to show leadership and push this through

Why start now?

[bobbythekidd]

So what extra stuff do gay men need? How do they slow down things? What different standards do they have for them?

Sorry I got really busy this afternoon until now.
The slow things down and different standards apply to women. Gay men will need a bathrooms, berthing, and bedrooms.

[dbackjon]

So what extra stuff do gay men need? How do they slow down things? What different standards do they have for them?

Sorry I got really busy this afternoon until now.
The slow things down and different standards apply to women. Gay men will need a bathrooms, berthing, and bedrooms.

The same as straight men. No need for separate quarters, etc. Just like now, marines, etc are showering with gay men.

[bobbythekidd]

The same as straight men. No need for separate quarters, etc. Just like now, marines, etc are showering with gay men.

The difference is that they don't know they are showering with a gay man. It will get ugly fast if the cat is out of the bag. This whole thread was about letting OPENLY gay persons serve.

[bobbythekidd]

Don't you think that what you described is the fault of the particular military branch? Perhaps these women (and less manly men) are being assigned to jobs they aren't qualified for?

That has been my point all along! In the example I am thing of the woman was to weak to do the job, pull the charging handle to the rear. I don't want my sons life depending on people like her. No man would have been in that spot. Men have to do pull ups, women get to hang on the bar. A different standard for women that allows them to get people killed.

There are plenty of jobs that less physically able people can do effectively in the military, don't you think? Especially now with computer based combat.

For some branches I might inclined to agree with this part if it were not for the training portion. Civilians may be better suited for this senerio.

[UNI88]

Don't you think that what you described is the fault of the particular military branch? Perhaps these women (and less manly men) are being assigned to jobs they aren't qualified for?

That has been my point all along! In the example I am thing of the woman was to weak to do the job, pull the charging handle to the rear. I don't want my sons life depending on people like her. No man would have been in that spot. Men have to do pull ups, women get to hang on the bar. A different standard for women that allows them to get people killed.

There are plenty of jobs that less physically able people can do effectively in the military, don't you think? Especially now with computer based combat.

For some branches I might inclined to agree with this part if it were not for the training portion. Civilians may be better suited for this senerio.

The same standards should apply to all regardless of gender or other factors. This should apply to civilian positions such as fire departments as well. I have absolutely no problem with women serving in any role but when lives are on the line everyone should have to pass the same tests.

[danefan]

Don't you think that what you described is the fault of the particular military branch? Perhaps these women (and less manly men) are being assigned to jobs they aren't qualified for?

That has been my point all along! In the example I am thing of the woman was to weak to do the job, pull the charging handle to the rear. I don't want my sons life depending on people like her. No man would have been in that spot. Men have to do pull ups, women get to hang on the bar. A different standard for women that allows them to get people killed.

There are plenty of jobs that less physically able people can do effectively in the military, don't you think? Especially now with computer based combat.

For some branches I might inclined to agree with this part if it were not for the training portion. Civilians may be better suited for this senerio.

I agree with you then.

[houndawg]

Should have been done a long time ago.

Yup. It was a stupid idea to introduce DADT to begin with. Now if we can just restructure the bill to keep homosexuals out it will be a good idea.

Why not go back to the pre-DADT situation where straights served in the Army and gays served in the Navy?