Rep. Patrick Murphy introduces bill to repeal DADT

[Wedgebuster]

Yup. It was a stupid idea to introduce DADT to begin with. Now if we can just restructure the bill to keep homosexuals out it will be a good idea.

Why not go back to the pre-DADT situation where straights served in the Army and gays served in the Navy?

[bobbythekidd]

Yup. It was a stupid idea to introduce DADT to begin with. Now if we can just restructure the bill to keep homosexuals out it will be a good idea.

Why not go back to the pre-DADT situation where straights served in the Army and gays served in the Navy?

Like legislation is ever going to affect that.

[dbackjon]

The same as straight men. No need for separate quarters, etc. Just like now, marines, etc are showering with gay men.

The difference is that they don't know they are showering with a gay man. It will get ugly fast if the cat is out of the bag. This whole thread was about letting OPENLY gay persons serve.

Yet in every other military in the world that allows gays to serve openly, NONE of these problems have occurred. Either you are saying that the US military is stupider and less able to adapt than other Western militaries, or you are wrong...

[bobbythekidd]

Yet in every other military in the world that allows gays to serve openly, NONE of these problems have occurred. Either you are saying that the US military is stupider and less able to adapt than other Western militaries, or you are wrong...

This is not going to shock you, but our military is made up with a large portion of people that are not as accepting, enlightened or refined as some of our Western counterparts. Don't be act so naive.

[dbackjon]

Yet in every other military in the world that allows gays to serve openly, NONE of these problems have occurred. Either you are saying that the US military is stupider and less able to adapt than other Western militaries, or you are wrong...

This is not going to shock you, but our military is made up with a large portion of people that are not as accepting, enlightened or refined as some of our Western counterparts. Don't be act so naive.

And they will either learn to be accepting, or GTFO. Your arguments are EXACTLY the same as the ones used to oppose desegregation of the military.

You CAN NOT let bigots dictate policy.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

This is not going to shock you, but our military is made up with a large portion of people that are not as accepting, enlightened or refined as some of our Western counterparts. Don't be act so naive.

And they will either learn to be accepting, or GTFO. Your arguments are EXACTLY the same as the ones used to oppose desegregation of the military.

You CAN NOT let bigots dictate policy.

MEGA REP

game. set. match. Jon.

[Chizzang]

This is not going to shock you, but our military is made up with a large portion of people that are not as accepting, enlightened or refined as some of our Western counterparts. Don't be act so naive.

And they will either learn to be accepting, or GTFO. Your arguments are EXACTLY the same as the ones used to oppose desegregation of the military.

You CAN NOT let bigots dictate policy.

Man...
Getting bitch slapped around by Dbackjon has become a spectator sport here on CS.com..!!!
Jon, be gentle with me tonight at the bar...

[bobbythekidd]

This is not going to shock you, but our military is made up with a large portion of people that are not as accepting, enlightened or refined as some of our Western counterparts. Don't be act so naive.

And they will either learn to be accepting, or GTFO. Your arguments are EXACTLY the same as the ones used to oppose desegregation of the military.

You CAN NOT let bigots dictate policy.

That's apples and oranges Jon. Segregation was about not wanting black dirt getting on the white folk. There was no sexual attraction issues. Completely separate set of issues here.

[dbackjon]

And they will either learn to be accepting, or GTFO. Your arguments are EXACTLY the same as the ones used to oppose desegregation of the military.

You CAN NOT let bigots dictate policy.

That's apples and oranges Jon. Segregation was about not wanting black dirt getting on the white folk. There was no sexual attraction issues. Completely separate set of issues here.

the bigotry, fear and prejudice are the same.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

That's apples and oranges Jon. Segregation was about not wanting black dirt getting on the white folk. There was no sexual attraction issues. Completely separate set of issues here.

the bigotry, fear and prejudice are the same.

and all rooted in ignorance

[bobbythekidd]

That's apples and oranges Jon. Segregation was about not wanting black dirt getting on the white folk. There was no sexual attraction issues. Completely separate set of issues here.

the bigotry, fear and prejudice are the same.

No they aren't. A black can use the same bathroom as a white without it being a sexually charged event. That is just a cop out.

[dbackjon]

the bigotry, fear and prejudice are the same.

No they aren't. A black can use the same bathroom as a white without it being a sexually charged event. That is just a cop out.

No, the copout is you not understanding that gays and straights use the bathroom all the time without it being a sexually charged event. That is the ignorance on your part.

[bobbythekidd]

No, the copout is you not understanding that gays and straights use the bathroom all the time without it being a sexually charged event.

You know I know that, Jon. The key to this whole thing is the OPENLY gay part. I am 36 years old and have yet to take a leak in a public restroom and have another man yell out that he was gay.

Let me try this another way. How would you feel about Alex taking a shower with 40 other gay men everyday? I know I don't want Big Ho showering with 40 other men everyday. Is it different?

[dbackjon]

No, the copout is you not understanding that gays and straights use the bathroom all the time without it being a sexually charged event.

You know I know that, Jon. The key to this whole thing is the OPENLY gay part. I am 36 years old and have yet to take a leak in a public restroom and have another man yell out that he was gay.

Let me try this another way. How would you feel about Alex taking a shower with 40 other gay men everyday? I know I don't want Big Ho showering with 40 other men everyday. Is it different?

Alex works out at a gym with a mostly gay membership. No worries there.




So if I ever go to a GSU game, and when the inevitable pee comes along, you'd make sure that you were not anywhere near?

[bobbythekidd]

So if I ever go to a GSU game, and when the inevitable pee comes along, you'd make sure that you were not anywhere near?

Actually no I wouldn't. We have dividers between every urinal and toilet, unlike what I had on Parris Island.

If Alex is so good with not looking around in the shower, why can't he shower with women at the gym?

[dbackjon]

So if I ever go to a GSU game, and when the inevitable pee comes along, you'd make sure that you were not anywhere near?

Actually no I wouldn't. We have dividers between every urinal and toilet, unlike what I had on Parris Island.

If Alex is so good with not looking around in the shower, why can't he shower with women at the gym?

Because he doesn't want to throw up looking at nasty cooters...


And all guys look - gay and straight.

[bobbythekidd]

The bigger issue is the unit cohesion issue that cannot be avoided.

[dbackjon]

The bigger issue is the unit cohesion issue that cannot be avoided.

And again, this has not been an issue in other countries.

There are lots of gay men serving mostly openly today - unit members know it, officers know it.

[bobbythekidd]

Actually no I wouldn't. We have dividers between every urinal and toilet, unlike what I had on Parris Island.

If Alex is so good with not looking around in the shower, why can't he shower with women at the gym?

Because he doesn't want to throw up looking at nasty cooters...


And all guys look - gay and straight.

If that is true, then one is a sexually charged problem, the other is an ooopsy. ...and you are welcome to be my guest at a GSU game anytime you like.

[bobbythekidd]

The bigger issue is the unit cohesion issue that cannot be avoided.

And again, this has not been an issue in other countries.

There are lots of gay men serving mostly openly today - unit members know it, officers know it.

I honestly don't know ofany countries that allow it, but you are more up to speed on the topic than I am so I will take your word on that.

Doesn't change my opinions about gays, women or young married folk.

[dbackjon]

Gays serve openly in, among others:

Argentina
Australia
Canada (since 1992, even had gay military weddings)
France
Germany
Israel
Italy
The Netherlands - since 1974
New Zealand
Phillipines
Romania
United Kingdom
Switerland
Uruguay

Of the 26 NATO members, 20 allow gays and lesbians to serve openly

[TwinTownBisonFan]

If you were in high school gym, and showered there, if you played high school sports, if you showered with more than 10 dudes at any time in your life (most guys have)... you've almost certainly showered with a gay dude...

moreover... who gives a fvck???

one of two things seems to be your problem with it:

1. the false, and frankly offensive, bigotry that equates homosexuality with sexual violence -- which is complete bullshit (things like sexual abuse and rape are crimes of power and control... not sex)

2. the inability of narrow-minded bigots to deal with people who aren't like them outweighs both the need for qualified members of the armed forces and the desire of those people to serve their country.

what's strange to me is how much these arguments sound like the blather from 16 year old boys on a high school football team - most of whom were massively insecure about their masculinity...

[bobbythekidd]

one of two things seems to be your problem with it:

1. the false, and frankly offensive, bigotry that equates homosexuality with sexual violence -- which is complete bullshit (things like sexual abuse and rape are crimes of power and control... not sex) When did I ever say anything that would provoke this out if you??

2. the inability of narrow-minded bigots to deal with people who aren't like them outweighs both the need for qualified members of the armed forces and the desire of those people to serve their country. Try the inability (willful or not I don't know) for you to grasp the lifestyle and the impact this could have on unit cohesion and morale. Nice try but wrong argument

I have to pause for a while to cook and stuff. We can continue the fun later.

[Chizzang]

Bob & Jon... Matrix Style Cat Fight..!!!

[TwinTownBisonFan]

one of two things seems to be your problem with it:

1. the false, and frankly offensive, bigotry that equates homosexuality with sexual violence -- which is complete bullshit (things like sexual abuse and rape are crimes of power and control... not sex) When did I ever say anything that would provoke this out if you??

2. the inability of narrow-minded bigots to deal with people who aren't like them outweighs both the need for qualified members of the armed forces and the desire of those people to serve their country. Try the inability (willful or not I don't know) for you to grasp the lifestyle and the impact this could have on unit cohesion and morale. Nice try but wrong argument

I have to pause for a while to cook and stuff. We can continue the fun later.

I understand the lifestyle... but most of the guys I know who have served in the army and marines could really care less about it... one of my buddies, a sergeant, summed it up as "if they can fight, i dont give a shit" the whole argument about "unit cohesion" was made regarding race in the 1940's too... turned out to be bunk. the whole argument centered on the idea that people who were narrow-minded and prejudiced couldn't handle being in an integrated unit... same basic argument.

my point about number one was to point out that the whole "in the shower" argument is predicated on the canard i mentioned. it's based on ignorance and fear, not facts.