No doubt, America needs universal health care

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

The painful truth is the obvious answer, socialized medicine for every citizen. Paid for by our taxes. So what if we pay more in taxes, the cost of making instant gazillionares in the health business and all the off shoots that come from it is hitting us all, insured or not.

Indifference and negativity from the benefactors of the current system just points to the greedy nature of our society and I can see them.

Time for us to join the rest of the civilized world and provide equal health care to every citizen, regardless of their lack of importance, importance, or imagined importance.

Folks getting involved in the health care industry should do so 100% because they want to help, not because it is a fat cake to cut.

I wouldn't mind if the overpricing of health care was gotten under control I would really appreciate it in fact.

The greediness of the health insurance system notwithstanding why should everybody be forced to be in this group? Why not have the government try to just set up a system for those in need and if you want in or want to chip in of your own volition to the cause then so be it. Why does everybody have to be forced to be taxed on this if they don't want it? Let the government prove it can run the 47 million that are uninsured as a group and down the road if it is a success then people will opt in to this plan anyway.

Health care is not a right and I don't see why it should be forced on those that don't want it. To me this looks a lot like the case of giving up more freedoms to government for the security they promise to provide. How long will it be before the government starts telling doctors where they can practice medicine and take those freedoms away as well? Forcing 300 million to take care of 47 million (about 1/2 of those choose to be uninsured from what I think I saw earlier) just doesn't seem right to me.

[Col Hogan]

Even S L O W E R for you hoagie, very few jobs exist anymore with health insurance as a benefit, and when it does exist, as is in OUR case, the deductibles and restrictions render the benefit to something other than "health INSURANCE", it is in fact a parody of what that term once meant.

Not so with the taxpayer paid packages for those elected officials, retirees, and eligible employees which by your responses you are one of, you **** still have insurance like insurance used to be, I know you don't understand that, but neither does my neighbor the math teacher who still has health, dental, and vision, and still manages to bitch about it to me, who pays his **** benefits package.

Now what I am saying is, that every taxpaying citizen should have access to that type of coverage, without worry about being rated out of existence in two years or less, or being ridered or uprated for preexisting conditions, and if this private industry for profit medical industry we have can't provide it, then we the people will have to take it over.

It's an equality thing, know what I mean Vern?

Copy all....you want socialism...and that's something I'm willing to fight to the very end to prevent...

What you don't accept is that life isn't fair to all...and you seem (correct me if I'm wrong) to want to make health care available to folks who could pay, but otherwise elect to spend their money on other things rather than pay for health care...

I work for a publicly traded company that offers medical, dental, vision, etc...companies still do it...

I am a military retiree...and maybe you're not aware, but we have to pay for our health care and dental...like retirees from many companies, not full costs, but it ain't free...

So, while I agree the health care system needs fixing, socialism isn't the answer...if you remove the profit motive from everyone in the system, you are going to kill innovation...

Az offered part of the solution...cap litigation payouts...then, crack down on doctors ordering tons of tests to avoid litigation...

Offer incentives (yea, government does have a part to play) for new doctors to go into family practice...so it's not nearly impossible to find a regular doctor for everyday preventive medicine...

There's lots of ways to fix the system way short of socialism...

[UNI88]

Fuking daddy big war buck conkos going batshit over an attempt to bring health costs under control by constantly bellering "you want free coverage." Who said it was going to be free? It ain't free now, and worse than that it is not even accessible for millions because of preexisting conditions, etc. **** no it ain't free, you government workers may get yours free, but the rest of US are paying for it!

There needs to be equal access for all citizens for the same kind of health care the war bucks types are getting, and their needs to be major changes to the way the business is run in this country. First of all, get the profit away from health insurance, from attorneys, from malpractice, from medical centers, from hospitals, from drug companies.

Health care to the highest bidder!! FOAD!!

A one payer system is the only answer, cut out the greedy bastards that are rolling in the dough from one aspect or another of this industry, and get the care to all the people.

LMAO at you government pukes telling the rest of us that we don't want the government involved in health coverage.

Wedgie, how exactly is socializing health care going to bring costs under control? And what will the trade-offs be in order to achieve it?

Who makes money off of health care?
- Insurance companies & their employees
- Medical professionals
- Rx companies
- Product & service providers (medical equipment, software, etc.)
- Lawyers

Most of these are individuals or for-profit entities. What is wrong with them making a profit? Do you think the government can do what they do for less money? More efficiently? How much is America subsidizing health care (Rx development) for the rest of the world?

If you squeeze too much of the profit out of the industry and/or add too many layers of government regulation you will make it less appealing to private firms that are driving innovation (Rx, medical equipment, etc.). Americans want the very best in health care and the best costs money.

I'm not arguing that health care costs aren't out of control but I am cautioning that we need to be careful about the unintended consequences of any changes that are legislated.

[D1B]

Not everybody is afforded the same opportunities as another person for a whole myriad of reasons.

Life isn't fair...

A very christian comment, Hoagie.

Jesus just frowned at you, again.

[D1B]

Fuking daddy big war buck conkos going batshit over an attempt to bring health costs under control by constantly bellering "you want free coverage." Who said it was going to be free? It ain't free now, and worse than that it is not even accessible for millions because of preexisting conditions, etc. **** no it ain't free, you government workers may get yours free, but the rest of US are paying for it!

There needs to be equal access for all citizens for the same kind of health care the war bucks types are getting, and their needs to be major changes to the way the business is run in this country. First of all, get the profit away from health insurance, from attorneys, from malpractice, from medical centers, from hospitals, from drug companies.

Health care to the highest bidder!! FOAD!!

A one payer system is the only answer, cut out the greedy bastards that are rolling in the dough from one aspect or another of this industry, and get the care to all the people.

LMAO at you government pukes telling the rest of us that we don't want the government involved in health coverage.

Wedgie, how exactly is socializing health care going to bring costs under control? And what will the trade-offs be in order to achieve it?

Who makes money off of health care?
- Insurance companies & their employees
- Medical professionals
- Rx companies
- Product & service providers (medical equipment, software, etc.)
- Lawyers

Most of these are individuals or for-profit entities. What is wrong with them making a profit? Do you think the government can do what they do for less money? More efficiently? How much is America subsidizing health care (Rx development) for the rest of the world?

If you squeeze too much of the profit out of the industry and/or add too many layers of government regulation you will make it less appealing to private firms that are driving innovation (Rx, medical equipment, etc.). Americans want the very best in health care and the best costs money.

I'm not arguing that health care costs aren't out of control but I am cautioning that we need to be careful about the unintended consequences of any changes that are legislated.

Strong post 88. Couple thoughts..... Key point = health care costs are out of control. The government as a barganing unit can demand lower prices. Health care industry could make up losses through volume. Kinda like what WalMart does to vendors.

Innovation? I bet most practical innovation comes from the universities, most of which are supported with tax dollars. Also, most people don't need innovation.

That aside - people should be paying too. It should not be free. Also, people should be penalized for obesity, smoking and other behaviors that contribute to high costs. JMO

[Wedgebuster]

Fuking daddy big war buck conkos going batshit over an attempt to bring health costs under control by constantly bellering "you want free coverage." Who said it was going to be free? It ain't free now, and worse than that it is not even accessible for millions because of preexisting conditions, etc. **** no it ain't free, you government workers may get yours free, but the rest of US are paying for it!

There needs to be equal access for all citizens for the same kind of health care the war bucks types are getting, and their needs to be major changes to the way the business is run in this country. First of all, get the profit away from health insurance, from attorneys, from malpractice, from medical centers, from hospitals, from drug companies.

Health care to the highest bidder!! FOAD!!

A one payer system is the only answer, cut out the greedy bastards that are rolling in the dough from one aspect or another of this industry, and get the care to all the people.

LMAO at you government pukes telling the rest of us that we don't want the government involved in health coverage.

Wedgie, how exactly is socializing health care going to bring costs under control? And what will the trade-offs be in order to achieve it?

Who makes money off of health care?
- Insurance companies & their employees
- Medical professionals
- Rx companies
- Product & service providers (medical equipment, software, etc.)
- Lawyers

Most of these are individuals or for-profit entities. What is wrong with them making a profit? Do you think the government can do what they do for less money? More efficiently? How much is America subsidizing health care (Rx development) for the rest of the world?

If you squeeze too much of the profit out of the industry and/or add too many layers of government regulation you will make it less appealing to private firms that are driving innovation (Rx, medical equipment, etc.). Americans want the very best in health care and the best costs money.

I'm not arguing that health care costs aren't out of control but I am cautioning that we need to be careful about the unintended consequences of any changes that are legislated.

I really can't say with at straight face that I hate the idea of profits being taken by every parasite attached to our national health care, I stand to make several thousand dollars a month off of health insurance without much extra effort on my part, just as a matter of day in and day out. I like money too.

I just like to post my real opinion about these things on this board to everybody's delight/scorn.


So if you guys are not alarmed at the atrocity that is our current medical cost crisis, good for you, I think we can do much better as a people and as a supposed world leader. We sure as hell are not doing well in the health care arena these days. Worry not about my personal plight, I already am covered by a horseshit plan that costs $1,200 bucks a month and covers nothing, but I plan to make hay way past that selling over priced and under performing insurance contracts to all the poor people that aren't entitled to tax payer provided insurance today.

[Wedgebuster]

Oh and BTW, anybody interested in my high priced, low performing health insurance products? They are the same ones available to you where you live, only it is I that would be your faithful serving agent, not your other insurance dufus..




















No shit, pm me if you're interested!!

[bobbythekidd]

Oh and BTW, anybody interested in my high priced, low performing health insurance products? They are the same ones available to you where you live, only it is I that would be your faithful serving agent, not your other insurance dufus.

You're doing it wrong. You are supposed to sell that crap to old widowed chicks. Around here you tell them that their sweet tea is great, listen to stories about their grands, then tell them to press hard; there are three copies.

[Wedgebuster]

Oh and BTW, anybody interested in my high priced, low performing health insurance products? They are the same ones available to you where you live, only it is I that would be your faithful serving agent, not your other insurance dufus.

You're doing it wrong. You are supposed to sell that crap to old widowed chicks. Around here you tell them that their sweet tea is great, listen to stories about their grands, then tell them to press hard; there are three copies.

I'm talking insurance, you're talking wills.

WTG! Much more dough in your scam.

[UNI88]

Wedgie, how exactly is socializing health care going to bring costs under control? And what will the trade-offs be in order to achieve it?

Who makes money off of health care?
- Insurance companies & their employees
- Medical professionals
- Rx companies
- Product & service providers (medical equipment, software, etc.)
- Lawyers

Most of these are individuals or for-profit entities. What is wrong with them making a profit? Do you think the government can do what they do for less money? More efficiently? How much is America subsidizing health care (Rx development) for the rest of the world?

If you squeeze too much of the profit out of the industry and/or add too many layers of government regulation you will make it less appealing to private firms that are driving innovation (Rx, medical equipment, etc.). Americans want the very best in health care and the best costs money.

I'm not arguing that health care costs aren't out of control but I am cautioning that we need to be careful about the unintended consequences of any changes that are legislated.

Strong post 88. Couple thoughts..... Key point = health care costs are out of control. The government as a barganing unit can demand lower prices. Health care industry could make up losses through volume. Kinda like what WalMart does to vendors.

Innovation? I bet most practical innovation comes from the universities, most of which are supported with tax dollars. Also, most people don't need innovation.

That aside - people should be paying too. It should not be free. Also, people should be penalized for obesity, smoking and other behaviors that contribute to high costs. JMO

D, making up losses through volume is one of the oldest jokes in the for-profit sector. If you're losing money on whatever you're doing, no amount of volume is going to allow you to make a profit. It's a trap that a surprising number of businesses fall into though (and WalMart doesn't give a shit when one of those companies goes out of business because they know there are a bunch more waiting to take their place).

I know universities put a lot of effort into innovation but so do the Rx and technology companies. We could live without these products but would Americans accept it (it's just another aspect of consumerism).

Agree on people paying. People need to share in the responsibility for managing their health care costs. If health care is paid for by someone else with low or no deductibles than people tend to run to the doctor for every runny nose which helps drive up the costs.

[bobbythekidd]

You're doing it wrong. You are supposed to sell that crap to old widowed chicks. Around here you tell them that their sweet tea is great, listen to stories about their grands, then tell them to press hard; there are three copies.

I'm talking insurance, you're talking wills.

WTG! Much more dough in your scam.

Nope. I'm talking insurance. I have a buddy that is plagued by residuals on his 1040 from his time in Hell.

[D1B]

Strong post 88. Couple thoughts..... Key point = health care costs are out of control. The government as a barganing unit can demand lower prices. Health care industry could make up losses through volume. Kinda like what WalMart does to vendors.

Innovation? I bet most practical innovation comes from the universities, most of which are supported with tax dollars. Also, most people don't need innovation.

That aside - people should be paying too. It should not be free. Also, people should be penalized for obesity, smoking and other behaviors that contribute to high costs. JMO

D, making up losses through volume is one of the oldest jokes in the for-profit sector. If you're losing money on whatever you're doing, no amount of volume is going to allow you to make a profit. It's a trap that a surprising number of businesses fall into though (and WalMart doesn't give a shit when one of those companies goes out of business because they know there are a bunch more waiting to take their place).

I know universities put a lot of effort into innovation but so do the Rx and technology companies. We could live without these products but would Americans accept it (it's just another aspect of consumerism).

Agree on people paying. People need to share in the responsibility for managing their health care costs. If health care is paid for by someone else with low or no deductibles than people tend to run to the doctor for every runny nose which helps drive up the costs.

Uhh, they would would most likely not be losing money 88. When you bill someone $97 for a Tylenol 3 and this is only a 10,000% profit margin, well there's room to negotiate without going out of business.

Drug companies coming up with all the innovation? You sure about that? Sure the do, like Viagra and painkillers.

Most of the breakthroughs that truly benefit people come from the research labs in universities and this does not always mean RX.

[Wedgebuster]

I'm talking insurance, you're talking wills.

WTG! Much more dough in your scam.

Nope. I'm talking insurance. I have a buddy that is plagued by residuals on his 1040 from his time in Hell.

I'm doomed!

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

D1B, UNI88, and Wedge, I think I agree with all of you and you're posting some great points. It's good to see a shit throwing contest turn into a good discussion once in a while. I do enjoy the monkey show though too. i think there is a way to do it if there is some personal responsibility put out there that the individual has to be accountable for some of the cost of this either through a copay or something like that and I know the costs are really out of control as far as health care because it costs me right around 900-1000/month for just me to get by every month with the insurance and the insulin and so forth. That is why it pisses me off that a lot of people want others to pay for them while they could afford it but choose to have other shit in it's place. My priorities since I do see health care as an important part of my life go like this...
1. Food
2. Shelter
3. Insurance
4. everything else.

1/2 the people out there saying that health caare is important to them don't prioritize their expenses like this and that's what pisses me off about them asking for fucking hand outs.

[D1B]

D1B, UNI88, and Wedge, I think I agree with all of you and you're posting some great points. It's good to see a shit throwing contest turn into a good discussion once in a while. I do enjoy the monkey show though too. i think there is a way to do it if there is some personal responsibility put out there that the individual has to be accountable for some of the cost of this either through a copay or something like that and I know the costs are really out of control as far as health care because it costs me right around 900-1000/month for just me to get by every month with the insurance and the insulin and so forth. That is why it pisses me off that a lot of people want others to pay for them while they could afford it but choose to have other shit in it's place. My priorities since I do see health care as an important part of my life go like this...
1. Food
2. Shelter
3. Insurance
4. everything else.

1/2 the people out there saying that health caare is important to them don't prioritize their expenses like this and that's what pisses me off about them asking for fucking hand outs.

Uh, Ursus, how does this...

...rare Dora The Explorer Beanie Baby you bought from me last week for several hundred dollars fit into your priority hierarchy?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

D1B, UNI88, and Wedge, I think I agree with all of you and you're posting some great points. It's good to see a shit throwing contest turn into a good discussion once in a while. I do enjoy the monkey show though too. i think there is a way to do it if there is some personal responsibility put out there that the individual has to be accountable for some of the cost of this either through a copay or something like that and I know the costs are really out of control as far as health care because it costs me right around 900-1000/month for just me to get by every month with the insurance and the insulin and so forth. That is why it pisses me off that a lot of people want others to pay for them while they could afford it but choose to have other shit in it's place. My priorities since I do see health care as an important part of my life go like this...
1. Food
2. Shelter
3. Insurance
4. everything else.

1/2 the people out there saying that health caare is important to them don't prioritize their expenses like this and that's what pisses me off about them asking for fucking hand outs.

Uh, Ursus, how does this...

...rare Dora The Explorer Beanie Baby you bought from me last week for several hundred dollars fit into your priority hierarchy?

3a.

[Wedgebuster]

No doubt, America needs universal health care.

And we need to quit beating around the bushie and get it done.

Nuff said.

[UNI88]

No doubt, America needs universal health care.

And we need to quit beating around the bushie and get it done.

Nuff said.

OK, America need universal health care. Making sure that everyone has access to adequate health care is not necessarily a bad thing.

Will universal health care drive down health care costs? If yes, where will those cost savings come from?

A number of posters seem to equate socialized health care to both universal access and lower costs. I understand the universal access but I'm not sure I buy the lower cost aspect. If you have a logical argument, I would be interested in hearing it.

[Wedgebuster]

No doubt, America needs universal health care.

And we need to quit beating around the bushie and get it done.

Nuff said.

OK, America need universal health care. Making sure that everyone has access to adequate health care is not necessarily a bad thing.

Will universal health care drive down health care costs? If yes, where will those cost savings come from?

A number of posters seem to equate socialized health care to both universal access and lower costs. I understand the universal access but I'm not sure I buy the lower cost aspect. If you have a logical argument, I would be interested in hearing it.

Yes, this will sound commie, but take a look around the world.

Single payer system. Single payer!

Why do we need health insurance companies? Bye bye Blue Cross!

Attorneys? Bye bye!

Health care with oversight. No more pulling 30% increases out of the air, expenses overseen, price increases limited by such things as the CPI, and rate of inflation.

Not talking R&D here, hospitals, doctors, and health care in general. R & D needs to be handled differently to promote competition and ingenuity.

Like it or not, this is where we are headed. Now or later, this health industry is a runaway train that can wreck our country, we can't let mega greed win this one. They fucked it up, and they should be fired.

Check the ads the rich fuck health industry and doctors are throwing at you on the television! What a bunch of money hog terrorists.

[AZGrizFan]

No doubt, America needs universal health care.

And we need to quit beating around the bushie and get it done.

Nuff said.

sounds like a man who doesn't have a health care plan.

[AZGrizFan]

Me thinks we have enough entitlement programs on the books.

[AZGrizFan]

In 1965 when Lyndon Johnson launched the War on Poverty, aggregate welfare spending was only $8.9 billion. (This would amount to around $42 billion if adjusted for inflation into today's dollars.)

Since the beginning of the War on Poverty in 1965 welfare spending has exploded. The rapid growth in welfare costs has continued to the present.

In constant dollars, welfare spending has risen every year but four since the beginning of the War on Poverty in 1965;
As a nation, we now spend ten times as much on welfare, after adjusting for inflation, as was spent when Lyndon Johnson launched the War on Poverty. We spend twice as much as when Ronald Reagan was first elected.
Cash, food, housing, and energy aid alone are nearly seven times greater today than in 1965, after adjusting for inflation;
As a percentage of Gross Domestic Product, welfare spending has grown from 1.2 percent in 1965 to 4.4 percent today.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfar ... 30701b.cfm

This "war" has been less successful than the "War on Drugs" all you commie-pinko-fags keep raging on about.

[D1B]

Me thinks we have enough entitlement programs on the books.

From the guy that's been 100% wrong for at least 9 years straight.

[Wedgebuster]

No doubt, America needs universal health care.

And we need to quit beating around the bushie and get it done.

Nuff said.

sounds like a man who doesn't have a health care plan.

Go fuck yourself rich dude red neck. Damn right I don't have a health plan, not like the one YOU get. I don't want to hear anymore shit out of your wing nut face about this, or about how those gazillionare wall street bankers deserve multi-million dollar bonuses, or how the terrorists will swim over here, and how they moved the bottle rocket launchers to Syria, or how Bush protected us, or how healthy McCain is, or how right and hot Palin is, or any of that endless bunch of ignorant shit that you believe. You been outed, we've all heard it, so shut the fuck up and let me buy your rich ass a beer.

Seriously....

[AZGrizFan]

More food for thought.