Rural Americans would be serfs if we abolished the Electoral College

[CID1990]

I think humans are religious beings... because we have to have an explanation for everything. Only children can be happy and content with mysteries - like the tooth fairy or Santa

But once we are adults we cannot stand the unknowns. Some of us become scientists or at least consumers of scientific inquiry. The rest of us are religious (and there is plenty of overlap between the two)

All of that said^^^ I think that because of those things, as a species we will never lose our religion - because we will never figure it ALL out. Some things will always be beyond the limits of understanding. If mankind has to contend with various religions moving forward, I would not put Mormonism high on the list of religions that scare me. Maybe they don't practice what their forefathers said they should but what they actually DO isn't all that bad.

It's kind of nice, actually

Absolutely agree ^ that we are religious beings
but to me it feels more like because we need to feel eternally connected
and need an explanation as to what comes next - because this can't be all there is

Humans by a vast majority do not believe death is the end (for themselves)
yet (strangely many) are perfectly fine believing that other living things just die



and we attach that "eternity" to a personal definition of "sentient"
I suffer I feel and I recognize myself the mirror therefore I go on forever

I did leave out the part about the talisman against eternal death... but that is a part of the mystery - the lack of knowledge and understanding

I asked myself this question years ago - what if this is really all there is? We get to experience this insignificant corner of the universe just once?

My own personal answer is - yes, correct

Of course I don’t KNOW that - but for most people it is the worst case scenario.

I have assumed it to be truth and have ordered my life accordingly- and I am ready for the great nothing


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[GannonFan]

I see the Democrat Nevada gov has vetoed the bill to join the popular vote compact. He said the bill, “could diminish the role of smaller states like Nevada in national electoral contests and force Nevada’s electors to side with whoever wins the nationwide popular vote, rather than the candidate Nevadans choose.”

So there are some Democrats that get it.

Yup, when small population states voluntarily give up what power they have and vote this way, especially if it results in that state voting contrary to a wide majority in their own state, then I'll believe it. I don't see small states lining up to make the Senate proportional based on population and that's where the Electoral College gets it's biggest lean towards smaller states. Imagine if Trump had eeked out a small popular vote victory and a small Democratic state (say Delaware) had went 30%-70% against Trump but then had to cast their Electoral votes for him. The Electoral College is here to stay.

[Chizzang]

Absolutely agree ^ that we are religious beings
but to me it feels more like because we need to feel eternally connected
and need an explanation as to what comes next - because this can't be all there is

Humans by a vast majority do not believe death is the end (for themselves)
yet (strangely many) are perfectly fine believing that other living things just die



and we attach that "eternity" to a personal definition of "sentient"
I suffer I feel and I recognize myself the mirror therefore I go on forever

I did leave out the part about the talisman against eternal death... but that is a part of the mystery - the lack of knowledge and understanding

I asked myself this question years ago - what if this is really all there is? We get to experience this insignificant corner of the universe just once?

My own personal answer is - yes, correct

Of course I don’t KNOW that - but for most people it is the worst case scenario.

I have assumed it to be truth and have ordered my life accordingly- and I am ready for the great nothing

You have whispered the unthinkable...
Because "I am" I cannot imagine the alternative to "I am"

Look, you can't want there to be a God more than I want there to be a god
and all the romantic notions that go along with that

Existentialism and Nihilism are not particularly satisfying
but they contain within them a kind of starkness that seems more reflective of the actual universe

This is why the vikings drank and murdered



in light of everything... what else was this place made for..?

[89Hen]

Absolutely agree ^ that we are religious beings
but to me it feels more like because we need to feel eternally connected
and need an explanation as to what comes next - because this can't be all there is

I think a larger part of religion comes from creation and not what comes next. Big bang, primordial goo, evolution... only go so far to help explain creation. Physicists explanation of what was before the big bang is worthless at best. I don't think even the smartest person alive can truly grasp nothing and infinity. They can speak on it, but the only way to get to nothing and infinity is to simply say, that's it, that's all there is.

[Chizzang]

Absolutely agree ^ that we are religious beings
but to me it feels more like because we need to feel eternally connected
and need an explanation as to what comes next - because this can't be all there is

I think a larger part of religion comes from creation and not what comes next. Big bang, primordial goo, evolution... only go so far to help explain creation. Physicists explanation of what was before the big bang is worthless at best. I don't think even the smartest person alive can truly grasp nothing and infinity. They can speak on it, but the only way to get to nothing and infinity is to simply say, that's it, that's all there is.

The Prime Mover...
My girlfriend and I just had a great discussion on this not long ago
Indeed, speaking of "not satisfying"
the scientific answer for what was before the Big Bang is the definition of unsatisfactory

[GannonFan]

I think a larger part of religion comes from creation and not what comes next. Big bang, primordial goo, evolution... only go so far to help explain creation. Physicists explanation of what was before the big bang is worthless at best. I don't think even the smartest person alive can truly grasp nothing and infinity. They can speak on it, but the only way to get to nothing and infinity is to simply say, that's it, that's all there is.

The Prime Mover...
My girlfriend and I just had a great discussion on this not long ago
Indeed, speaking of "not satisfying"
the scientific answer for what was before the Big Bang is the definition of unsatisfactory

Agreed - the biggest thing that the mind can't grasp is what is outside of "creation" (creation being the entire universe and whatever multiple ones there are). As always, the more we know the more we find out there's infinitely more to know.

[UNI88]

I think a larger part of religion comes from creation and not what comes next. Big bang, primordial goo, evolution... only go so far to help explain creation. Physicists explanation of what was before the big bang is worthless at best. I don't think even the smartest person alive can truly grasp nothing and infinity. They can speak on it, but the only way to get to nothing and infinity is to simply say, that's it, that's all there is.

The Prime Mover...
My girlfriend and I just had a great discussion on this not long ago
Indeed, speaking of "not satisfying"
the scientific answer for what was before the Big Bang is the definition of unsatisfactory

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah
Well I Love TV And I Love T. Rex
I Can See Through Your Skirt
I've Got X-Ray Spex
I Came From The Sky Like A 747
I'm The Bad Boy Baby I Fell Out Of Heaven
Sex Fuhrer Baby I'm A Love Dictator
Blitzkrieg Romance I'm A Cool Dominator

P-R-I-M-E Prime Mover
Baby You're M-I-N-E I'm The Groover

Well I'm Christ In Shades I'm A Napalm God
Your Lipstick Flickers Round My Lightning Rod
You Fever Pitch Bitch You Love To Tease
Well I'm A Hot Dog Daddy Up On Your Knees
Sex Fuhrer Baby I'm A Love Dictator
Blitzkrieg Romance I'm A Living Detonator

P-R-I-M-E Prime Mover
Baby You're M-I-N-E I'm The Groover Yeah

I'm The Sex Fuhrer Baby I'm A Love Dictator
You're A Disco Reptile A Funky Alligator

P-R-I-M-E Prime Mover
Baby You're M-I-N-E I'm The Groover

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[kalm]

The Prime Mover...
My girlfriend and I just had a great discussion on this not long ago
Indeed, speaking of "not satisfying"
the scientific answer for what was before the Big Bang is the definition of unsatisfactory

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah
Well I Love TV And I Love T. Rex
I Can See Through Your Skirt
I've Got X-Ray Spex
I Came From The Sky Like A 747
I'm The Bad Boy Baby I Fell Out Of Heaven
Sex Fuhrer Baby I'm A Love Dictator
Blitzkrieg Romance I'm A Cool Dominator

P-R-I-M-E Prime Mover
Baby You're M-I-N-E I'm The Groover

Well I'm Christ In Shades I'm A Napalm God
Your Lipstick Flickers Round My Lightning Rod
You Fever Pitch Bitch You Love To Tease
Well I'm A Hot Dog Daddy Up On Your Knees
Sex Fuhrer Baby I'm A Love Dictator
Blitzkrieg Romance I'm A Living Detonator

P-R-I-M-E Prime Mover
Baby You're M-I-N-E I'm The Groover Yeah

I'm The Sex Fuhrer Baby I'm A Love Dictator
You're A Disco Reptile A Funky Alligator

P-R-I-M-E Prime Mover
Baby You're M-I-N-E I'm The Groover

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I had to look up that song. Holy 80’s deep cuts, Batman!

phpBB [video]

[89Hen]

P-R-I-M-E Prime Mover
Baby You're M-I-N-E I'm The Groover

I had to look up that song. Holy 80’s deep cuts, Batman!

The real Prime...

phpBB [video]

[UNI88]

I had to look up that song. Holy 80’s deep cuts, Batman!

The real Prime...

You have such a myopic view of just about everything.

Everyone knows Optimus is the real Prime.

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[kalm]

The real Prime...

You have such a myopic view of just about everything.

Everyone knows Optimus is the real Prime.

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Helion Prime is where it’s at. At least until the Necromongers invaded.

Dorks.

[houndawg]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 770424002/

We’ve recently seen calls for women to withhold sex until men vote properly...Slate recently proposed that millennials not have kids or keep their kids from seeing their grandparents until the grandparents agree to vote “properly”...

I say maybe rural Americans should withhold their products and services to their city cousins until they agree to honor the Constitution as written and stop this foolishness of messing with the Electoral College...

Yeah...they should just close up shop.

This would carry a lot more weight in the freedom department if ag wasn't so heavily subsidized and corporatized.

I honestly don't mind the electoral college that much but why not just grant every legislative district one electoral vote? There's a crap ton of ag and mining in the rural areas of Washington, Oregon, and California. Their votes should count for more too.

Does this mean they'll have to piss in a cup to get their welfare? Asking for a friend..

[houndawg]

Dude..WTF? It's 6 am here, don't be doing that shit

[houndawg]

Not true. Take your State of North Dakota. It was so certain that the Republican would win the State and its 3 electoral votes that weren't even any polls listed for it in the final RealClearPolitics electoral college map display.

If it's a national popular vote every vote matters. If someone voted for Clinton in North Dakota it wouldn't matter that Trump won that particular State over Clinton by 64.1 to 27.8 percent. Someone could go to the polls wanting to vote for Clinton and felt like their vote mattered. The reality is that such is not the case under the current system unless one lives in one of the "swing" states for any particular Presidential election year.

Your argument is how you get a Malaysia or a Thailand-

Wealthy population centers surrounded by rural land in poverty

And political power being centered in metro areas, those places benefit from ALL the government largesse, in infrastructure and services .... which leads to more migration into the metro areas

Thailand’s countryside is basically decamping to the city - because city dwellers have all the political clout and don’t give a rat’s ass about rice farmers

The Electoral College is a key to decentralization of power and a bulwark against the tyranny of the majority. It serves the same purpose as the Senate.


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To make sure the Establishment has the final word?

[houndawg]

In a way I hope that Trump does win a second term. He will drive the economy into the ground which will inflict much more damage on the Republican Party than anything he could ever do or say.

Yup.....my main concern now is too destroy the Republican Party. I'm just gonna play your game now.

Yeah, Trump is driving the economy into the ground. How has Trump affected you personally? Just curious.


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I paid more federal taxes on the same amount of retirement 2017 and 2018.

[houndawg]

One could argue that the economy is an extension of Obama's policies. What has Trump done, actually done, for the economy? Trade wars? Tax cut for the wealthy?

Though I usually disagree with your posts, they are usually well thought out. This one is an exception.


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Translation: I can't think of anything Tramp has done for the economy except line his pockets at taxpayer expense.

[houndawg]

Yeah, there wasn't any Bush Hate.

Indeed. W was, as far as I remember, the first President to be habitually compared with Hitler and the Nazis. It's something we can all chuckle about now in the Trump era, but protestors really thought W was right up there with the most evil of dictators.

You should get out more.

protestors thought Cheney was right up there with the most evil of any category you want to name. W was considered to be a miserable failure for abdicating his authority to Shotgun Dickey. Most on both sides thought of him personally as the same kind of "amiable dunce" as how Clark Clifford described Ronald Reagan.

[houndawg]

Romney was a pretty evil Nazi too -

He just never quite got the full treatment because he didn’t win

But between his dog carrier on the roof of the car and him being a warmonger on Russians (like Reagan)... he was obviously just a soft spoken Hitler


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But remember, the media would never do a "good" Republican wrong, and are only doing it to Trump because of who he is.

The media loves Bob Mueller(R-USA).

[UNI88]

Indeed. W was, as far as I remember, the first President to be habitually compared with Hitler and the Nazis. It's something we can all chuckle about now in the Trump era, but protestors really thought W was right up there with the most evil of dictators.

You should get out more.

protestors thought Cheney was right up there with the most evil of any category you want to name. W was considered to be a miserable failure for abdicating his authority to Shotgun Dickey. Most on both sides thought of him personally as the same kind of "amiable dunce" as how Clark Clifford described Ronald Reagan.

Not true. Liberals might not have hated Bush as much as Cheney but they definitely hated him. If history is a living document open to revision too can't we just erase the fact that Washington, Jefferson, etc. owned slaves?

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[CID1990]

Your argument is how you get a Malaysia or a Thailand-

Wealthy population centers surrounded by rural land in poverty

And political power being centered in metro areas, those places benefit from ALL the government largesse, in infrastructure and services .... which leads to more migration into the metro areas

Thailand’s countryside is basically decamping to the city - because city dwellers have all the political clout and don’t give a rat’s ass about rice farmers

The Electoral College is a key to decentralization of power and a bulwark against the tyranny of the majority. It serves the same purpose as the Senate.


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To make sure the Establishment has the final word?

Of course not.

To make sure NYC and LA don’t.

You aren’t a moron so you knew that already


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[SDHornet]

To make sure the Establishment has the final word?

Of course not.

To make sure NYC and LA don’t.

You aren’t a moron so you knew that already


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He's getting the EC and the DNC super delegates mixed up.

[houndawg]

You should get out more.

protestors thought Cheney was right up there with the most evil of any category you want to name. W was considered to be a miserable failure for abdicating his authority to Shotgun Dickey. Most on both sides thought of him personally as the same kind of "amiable dunce" as how Clark Clifford described Ronald Reagan.

Not true. Liberals might not have hated Bush as much as Cheney but they definitely hated him. If history is a living document open to revision too can't we just erase the fact that Washington, Jefferson, etc. owned slaves?

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Some did, some saw him as just a buffoon stupid enough to roll with Cheney picking himself for VP. I started out hating him because he was in his tough-talking cowboy phase at the time and you know how that shit sounds coming from an Ivy League frat boy. Now I see him as a run-of-the-mill amiable dunce who at least has enough humanity in him to be revolted by the orange-faced cunt in the White House.

[houndawg]

To make sure the Establishment has the final word?

Of course not.

To make sure NYC and LA don’t.

You aren’t a moron so you knew that already


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NYC and LA aren't Establishment?

[GannonFan]

Indeed. W was, as far as I remember, the first President to be habitually compared with Hitler and the Nazis. It's something we can all chuckle about now in the Trump era, but protestors really thought W was right up there with the most evil of dictators.

You should get out more.

protestors thought Cheney was right up there with the most evil of any category you want to name. W was considered to be a miserable failure for abdicating his authority to Shotgun Dickey. Most on both sides thought of him personally as the same kind of "amiable dunce" as how Clark Clifford described Ronald Reagan.

Well, considering I was actually in NYC during a lot of those protests in the run-up to the Iraq War and actually saw and heard the protestors and the signs they held, I'm going to go with my own personal experience over the wisdom of a guy who was hanging out in southern Illinois at the time. Looking back surely people see Bush as more the dunce now and Cheney as the evil puppeteer, but at the time people were putting those little moustaches on Bush's image.

[Chizzang]

You should get out more.

protestors thought Cheney was right up there with the most evil of any category you want to name. W was considered to be a miserable failure for abdicating his authority to Shotgun Dickey. Most on both sides thought of him personally as the same kind of "amiable dunce" as how Clark Clifford described Ronald Reagan.

Well, considering I was actually in NYC during a lot of those protests in the run-up to the Iraq War and actually saw and heard the protestors and the signs they held, I'm going to go with my own personal experience over the wisdom of a guy who was hanging out in southern Illinois at the time. Looking back surely people see Bush as more the dunce now and Cheney as the evil puppeteer, but at the time people were putting those little moustaches on Bush's image.

Probably because Bush declared war on "Terrorism"
and then went to war with a completely unrelated 3rd party

it was a little too "sudetenland" esque of a move...
Look over there "terrorism" while I move troops over here
Removing all doubt that he was Dick Cheney's puppet



He then secured congressional support in the exact same way dictators muster support
"If you don't show your patriotism by voting for war, you are a terrorist at heart"



and it worked like it has for centuries