Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[CID1990]

That’s about the size of it

Basically, nobody who was invested in the Russia conspiracy narrative has any room to criticize Trump’s intelligence- because they are right there with him


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You're probably right. I was never sold on conspiracy. Based on Mueller's history, I had no reason to think of him as someone who wouldn't be fair and impartial.

Isn't there an IG report due soon?

I think the IG is just going to put some meat on the bone about some things that have been inferred for a while

Probably Comey is going to get fingered for insubordination, shite judgment, etc


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[JohnStOnge]

Ibanez

Russian. Interference in our elections is totally wrong. But they got what they wanted by creating division. Thanks Libs.

They got what they wanted in that Trump got elected. Thanks Trump cultists. Idiots.

[SDHornet]

They can impeach then indict...

...of course if there was actually something worthwhile to impeach Trump on we would be well into the impeachment process by now...

...I wonder what is taking Pelosi so long to get this going.

That's a pretty stupid comment, coming from you. You know exactly why the Republican Senate will not convict Trump if the HoR impeached him. C'mon SD, you're better than that.

I don't think impeachment is likely, barring something so severe that even the Republicans finally decide that it's necessary. Which we both know won't happen. Better to vote him out of office. Beat him at the ballot box.

Not buying it. If Trump is causing the end of democracy in this nation as we know it (as claimed by folks on the TV, both pundits and congresscritters) and Mueller found evidence of Trump-Russia Collusion then there would be an overwhelming bipartisan effort to impeach Trump. You know it, I know, hell, even JSO and jellybelly knows it...

...but there is no evidence so this whole impeachment talk is nothing more than "Orange Man Bad" TDS talk, and anyone with a brain knows it. It was one big "nothingburger".

Also still waiting on an answer on: how do you obstruct entrapment? Guess I'll keep waiting.

[SDHornet]

Mueller didnt say that.

He said the evidence wasn't sufficient to establish a conspiracy.

You're saying the same thing I just said, you just cut off that phrase from the sentence that came before it. Taken together, as I wrote, means the same thing. And it means what we've been saying for 100+ pages in this thread, that you were wrong. And we as Americans should be happy that Mueller proved you wrong.

This.

Don't forget the part where jellybelly stormed off for two months when his Russia Hoax narrative blew up in his face once and for all.

[SDHornet]

Ibanez

Russian. Interference in our elections is totally wrong. But they got what they wanted by creating division. Thanks Libs.

They got what they wanted in that Trump got elected. Thanks Trump cultists. Idiots.

You should thank the DNC for rigging their primary in favor of the worst presidential candidate ever.

[SeattleGriz]

You're probably right. I was never sold on conspiracy. Based on Mueller's history, I had no reason to think of him as someone who wouldn't be fair and impartial.

Isn't there an IG report due soon?

I think the IG is just going to put some meat on the bone about some things that have been inferred for a while

Probably Comey is going to get fingered for insubordination, shite judgment, etc


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I hope you are right. The last report didn't seem to amount to much.

[CID1990]

I think the IG is just going to put some meat on the bone about some things that have been inferred for a while

Probably Comey is going to get fingered for insubordination, shite judgment, etc


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I hope you are right. The last report didn't seem to amount to much.

I hope it is vanilla. The other possibilities are as bad as a presidential campaign conspiring with Russians to affect US elections


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[Ibanez]

They got what they wanted in that Trump got elected. Thanks Trump cultists. Idiots.

You should thank the DNC for rigging their primary in favor of the worst presidential candidate ever.

[Ibanez]

That's a pretty stupid comment, coming from you. You know exactly why the Republican Senate will not convict Trump if the HoR impeached him. C'mon SD, you're better than that.

I don't think impeachment is likely, barring something so severe that even the Republicans finally decide that it's necessary. Which we both know won't happen. Better to vote him out of office. Beat him at the ballot box.

Not buying it. If Trump is causing the end of democracy in this nation as we know it (as claimed by folks on the TV, both pundits and congresscritters) and Mueller found evidence of Trump-Russia Collusion then there would be an overwhelming bipartisan effort to impeach Trump. You know it, I know, hell, even JSO and jellybelly knows it...

...but there is no evidence so this whole impeachment talk is nothing more than "Orange Man Bad" TDS talk, and anyone with a brain knows it. It was one big "nothingburger".

Also still waiting on an answer on: how do you obstruct entrapment? Guess I'll keep waiting.

I think you're conflating multiple things. There wasn't evidence of Trump conspiring with the Russians. That's good. So there wasn't any evidence of conspiracy so there's no impeachment based off conspiracy. Unless I'm mistaken, it's his attempts to obstruct justice that's at the core of the calls for impeachment.

I don't think you'd see Republicans hand over a political victory to the Democrats by impeaching Trump and hurting their 2020 prospects. I just don't see them having the balls to do that.

I'm not sure how Trumps Justice Department executing an investigation into the Russian interference is entrapment. Maybe walk me through that one.


Btw, I don't think Trump is the end of our Republic. He's certainly more autocratic than people would like, but the Republic will stand when he's gone. It might need some repairs, but it'll stand.

[Ibanez]

You're saying the same thing I just said, you just cut off that phrase from the sentence that came before it. Taken together, as I wrote, means the same thing. And it means what we've been saying for 100+ pages in this thread, that you were wrong. And we as Americans should be happy that Mueller proved you wrong.

This.

Don't forget the part where jellybelly stormed off for two months when his Russia Hoax narrative blew up in his face once and for all.

I've said it throughout this thread, we should all be happy that Trump was found to not have conspired. The Democrats should be so thankful and pleased that the POTUS didn't conspire with a foreign power.


But Trump didn't do himself any favors by appearing to attempt to obstruct/end the investigation. That is 100% his fault. If he had just shut his mouth and let the report play out, the news would be that Trump didn't conspire and that's that.

[AZGrizFan]

This.

Don't forget the part where jellybelly stormed off for two months when his Russia Hoax narrative blew up in his face once and for all.

I've said it throughout this thread, we should all be happy that Trump was found to not have conspired. The Democrats should be so thankful and pleased that the POTUS didn't conspire with a foreign power.


But Trump didn't do himself any favors by appearing to attempt to obstruct/end the investigation. That is 100% his fault. If he had just shut his mouth and let the report play out, the news would be that Trump didn't conspire and that's that.

You have no problem that the entire report/investigation was based on a flawed/false premise? He should just go quietly into the night regardless? Would you?

[kalm]

This.

Don't forget the part where jellybelly stormed off for two months when his Russia Hoax narrative blew up in his face once and for all.

I've said it throughout this thread, we should all be happy that Trump was found to not have conspired. The Democrats should be so thankful and pleased that the POTUS didn't conspire with a foreign power.


But Trump didn't do himself any favors by appearing to attempt to obstruct/end the investigation. That is 100% his fault. If he had just shut his mouth and let the report play out, the news would be that Trump didn't conspire and that's that.

Which means those defending him are supporting either a conspirator or a fucking moron.

[Ibanez]

I've said it throughout this thread, we should all be happy that Trump was found to not have conspired. The Democrats should be so thankful and pleased that the POTUS didn't conspire with a foreign power.


But Trump didn't do himself any favors by appearing to attempt to obstruct/end the investigation. That is 100% his fault. If he had just shut his mouth and let the report play out, the news would be that Trump didn't conspire and that's that.

You have no problem that the entire report/investigation was based on a flawed/false premise? He should just go quietly into the night regardless? Would you?

Are you talking about the Steele Dossier?

Mueller's report cites Papadopoulos and supposed Russian involvement in the DNC leaks prompted the investigations. The Dossier didn't initiate the investigation no matter how much Sean Hannity and Trump want you to believe.

Trump surrounded himself by shady people. Are you familiar with Operation Crossfire Hurricane?


Besides, if you had something like the Steele Dossier given to you, don't you think you'd want to take it seriously and verify or disprove it's contents? The dossier was correct about some things like Russian interference in the election, the Kremlin being responsible for the DNC hacked emails and Wikileaks. I think the Golden Showers is the only thing in the dossier that's either unproven or false. Just about everything else is factually correct in one way or another.

[AZGrizFan]

You have no problem that the entire report/investigation was based on a flawed/false premise? He should just go quietly into the night regardless? Would you?

Are you talking about the Steele Dossier?

Mueller's report cites Papadopoulos and supposed Russian involvement in the DNC leaks prompted the investigations. The Dossier didn't initiate the investigation no matter how much Sean Hannity and Trump want you to believe.

Trump surrounded himself by shady people. Are you familiar with Operation Crossfire Hurricane?


Besides, if you had something like the Steele Dossier given to you, don't you think you'd want to take it seriously and verify or disprove it's contents? The dossier was correct about some things like Russian interference in the election, the Kremlin being responsible for the DNC hacked emails and Wikileaks. I think the Golden Showers is the only thing in the dossier that's either unproven or false. Just about everything else is factually correct in one way or another.

And who developed the dossier? What prompted/initiated the investigation?

[Ibanez]

Are you talking about the Steele Dossier?

Mueller's report cites Papadopoulos and supposed Russian involvement in the DNC leaks prompted the investigations. The Dossier didn't initiate the investigation no matter how much Sean Hannity and Trump want you to believe.

Trump surrounded himself by shady people. Are you familiar with Operation Crossfire Hurricane?


Besides, if you had something like the Steele Dossier given to you, don't you think you'd want to take it seriously and verify or disprove it's contents? The dossier was correct about some things like Russian interference in the election, the Kremlin being responsible for the DNC hacked emails and Wikileaks. I think the Golden Showers is the only thing in the dossier that's either unproven or false. Just about everything else is factually correct in one way or another.

And who developed the dossier? What prompted/initiated the investigation?

You know who developed it. The catalyst for the investigation is in my post. The DOJ said that. The House Intelligence Committee under Republican control said that. But that's according to experts and the people involved with the investigations and not Fox News.

What you want to say is that the dossier was paid for the DNC AFTER it was initially contracted by a conservative publication, Washington Free Beacon. So..I guess the Washington Free Beacon is to blame. You want to say it was produced as opposition research, and it was. But opposition research isn't unusual at all. I'm sure Trump had some on Clinton.

[AZGrizFan]

And who developed the dossier? What prompted/initiated the investigation?

You know who developed it. The catalyst for the investigation is in my post. The DOJ said that. The House Intelligence Committee under Republican control said that. But that's according to experts and the people involved with the investigations and not Fox News.

What you want to say is that the dossier was paid for the DNC AFTER it was initially contracted by a conservative publication, Washington Free Beacon. So..I guess the Washington Free Beacon is to blame. You want to say it was produced as opposition research, and it was. But opposition research isn't unusual at all. I'm sure Trump had some on Clinton.

Why do you keep citing Fox News/Hannity/et al? I don't watch/listen to those people any more than you do.

[Ibanez]

You know who developed it. The catalyst for the investigation is in my post. The DOJ said that. The House Intelligence Committee under Republican control said that. But that's according to experts and the people involved with the investigations and not Fox News.

What you want to say is that the dossier was paid for the DNC AFTER it was initially contracted by a conservative publication, Washington Free Beacon. So..I guess the Washington Free Beacon is to blame. You want to say it was produced as opposition research, and it was. But opposition research isn't unusual at all. I'm sure Trump had some on Clinton.

Why do you keep citing Fox News/Hannity/et al? I don't watch/listen to those people any more than you do.

Because they put out all this nonsense and falsehoods about who and what began the investigation. Hannity especially has spun and distorted the truth.




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[93henfan]

So the pee tape doesn't exist?

Damn it.

[SeattleGriz]

Why do you keep citing Fox News/Hannity/et al? I don't watch/listen to those people any more than you do.

Because they put out all this nonsense and falsehoods about who and what began the investigation. Hannity especially has spun and distorted the truth.




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You're hanging your hat on Papadopoulos? Risky move.

[SDHornet]

Not buying it. If Trump is causing the end of democracy in this nation as we know it (as claimed by folks on the TV, both pundits and congresscritters) and Mueller found evidence of Trump-Russia Collusion then there would be an overwhelming bipartisan effort to impeach Trump. You know it, I know, hell, even JSO and jellybelly knows it...

...but there is no evidence so this whole impeachment talk is nothing more than "Orange Man Bad" TDS talk, and anyone with a brain knows it. It was one big "nothingburger".

Also still waiting on an answer on: how do you obstruct entrapment? Guess I'll keep waiting.

I think you're conflating multiple things. There wasn't evidence of Trump conspiring with the Russians. That's good. So there wasn't any evidence of conspiracy so there's no impeachment based off conspiracy. Unless I'm mistaken, it's his attempts to obstruct justice that's at the core of the calls for impeachment.

Nope, the goal from the get go was impeachment due to Russian Collusion. Then the goalposts moved and now they are looking at impeachment for obstruction since the Russian Collusion narrative was a total hoax (looking at you jellybelly). Which again, how do you obstruct entrapment?

I don't think you'd see Republicans hand over a political victory to the Democrats by impeaching Trump and hurting their 2020 prospects. I just don't see them having the balls to do that.

Balls to impeach Trump over what? If there was proven Russian collusion then, like I said, there would be an overwhelming bipartisan effort to impeach Trump. The donks are now basically calling for impeachment because Orange Man Bad. It's why Pelosi has been smart enough to restrain from proceeding with impeachment up to this point.

I'm not sure how Trumps Justice Department executing an investigation into the Russian interference is entrapment. Maybe walk me through that one.

The Papodapolus thing was a total set up by various intel agencies. Then as AZ pointed out there was the whole starting the investigation/spying off of a dossier, of whom the creator isn't talking to the Feds about. Why is that? This doesn't pass the smell test.

Btw, I don't think Trump is the end of our Republic. He's certainly more autocratic than people would like, but the Republic will stand when he's gone. It might need some repairs, but it'll stand.

Agree that Trump won't be the end of this Republic. People making that claim are just complete morons.

[AZGrizFan]

I think you're conflating multiple things. There wasn't evidence of Trump conspiring with the Russians. That's good. So there wasn't any evidence of conspiracy so there's no impeachment based off conspiracy. Unless I'm mistaken, it's his attempts to obstruct justice that's at the core of the calls for impeachment.

Nope, the goal from the get go was impeachment due to Russian Collusion. Then the goalposts moved and now they are looking at impeachment for obstruction since the Russian Collusion narrative was a total hoax (looking at you jellybelly). Which again, how do you obstruct entrapment?

I don't think you'd see Republicans hand over a political victory to the Democrats by impeaching Trump and hurting their 2020 prospects. I just don't see them having the balls to do that.

Balls to impeach Trump over what? If there was proven Russian collusion then, like I said, there would be an overwhelming bipartisan effort to impeach Trump. The donks are now basically calling for impeachment because Orange Man Bad. It's why Pelosi has been smart enough to restrain from proceeding with impeachment up to this point.

I'm not sure how Trumps Justice Department executing an investigation into the Russian interference is entrapment. Maybe walk me through that one.

The Papodapolus thing was a total set up by various intel agencies. Then as AZ pointed out there was the whole starting the investigation/spying off of a dossier, of whom the creator isn't talking to the Feds about. Why is that? This doesn't pass the smell test.

Btw, I don't think Trump is the end of our Republic. He's certainly more autocratic than people would like, but the Republic will stand when he's gone. It might need some repairs, but it'll stand.

Agree that Trump won't be the end of this Republic. People making that claim are just complete morons.

Hey now. Don’t talk about my sisters that way.

[kalm]

I think you're conflating multiple things. There wasn't evidence of Trump conspiring with the Russians. That's good. So there wasn't any evidence of conspiracy so there's no impeachment based off conspiracy. Unless I'm mistaken, it's his attempts to obstruct justice that's at the core of the calls for impeachment.

Nope, the goal from the get go was impeachment due to Russian Collusion. Then the goalposts moved and now they are looking at impeachment for obstruction since the Russian Collusion narrative was a total hoax (looking at you jellybelly). Which again, how do you obstruct entrapment?

I don't think you'd see Republicans hand over a political victory to the Democrats by impeaching Trump and hurting their 2020 prospects. I just don't see them having the balls to do that.

Balls to impeach Trump over what? If there was proven Russian collusion then, like I said, there would be an overwhelming bipartisan effort to impeach Trump. The donks are now basically calling for impeachment because Orange Man Bad. It's why Pelosi has been smart enough to restrain from proceeding with impeachment up to this point.

I'm not sure how Trumps Justice Department executing an investigation into the Russian interference is entrapment. Maybe walk me through that one.

The Papodapolus thing was a total set up by various intel agencies. Then as AZ pointed out there was the whole starting the investigation/spying off of a dossier, of whom the creator isn't talking to the Feds about. Why is that? This doesn't pass the smell test.

Btw, I don't think Trump is the end of our Republic. He's certainly more autocratic than people would like, but the Republic will stand when he's gone. It might need some repairs, but it'll stand.

Agree that Trump won't be the end of this Republic. People making that claim are just complete morons.

Ah yes...it's a vast left wing conspiracy involving our intelligence agencies, a Republican Director of the FBI, Republican Special Prosecutor, and Justin Amash...but not Nancy Pelosi.

[Ibanez]

Because they put out all this nonsense and falsehoods about who and what began the investigation. Hannity especially has spun and distorted the truth.




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You're hanging your hat on Papadopoulos? Risky move.

I'm going by what the people who have been involved in the investigations say. Neither you, me, SD Hornet, Houndawg, et al... are on the inside. And when multiple investigations say the same thing, I have to believe there's some truth to it.

[Ibanez]

I think you're conflating multiple things. There wasn't evidence of Trump conspiring with the Russians. That's good. So there wasn't any evidence of conspiracy so there's no impeachment based off conspiracy. Unless I'm mistaken, it's his attempts to obstruct justice that's at the core of the calls for impeachment.

Nope, the goal from the get go was impeachment due to Russian Collusion. Then the goalposts moved and now they are looking at impeachment for obstruction since the Russian Collusion narrative was a total hoax (looking at you jellybelly). Which again, how do you obstruct entrapment?

I don't think you'd see Republicans hand over a political victory to the Democrats by impeaching Trump and hurting their 2020 prospects. I just don't see them having the balls to do that.

Balls to impeach Trump over what? If there was proven Russian collusion then, like I said, there would be an overwhelming bipartisan effort to impeach Trump. The donks are now basically calling for impeachment because Orange Man Bad. It's why Pelosi has been smart enough to restrain from proceeding with impeachment up to this point.

I'm not sure how Trumps Justice Department executing an investigation into the Russian interference is entrapment. Maybe walk me through that one.

The Papodapolus thing was a total set up by various intel agencies. Then as AZ pointed out there was the whole starting the investigation/spying off of a dossier, of whom the creator isn't talking to the Feds about. Why is that? This doesn't pass the smell test.

Btw, I don't think Trump is the end of our Republic. He's certainly more autocratic than people would like, but the Republic will stand when he's gone. It might need some repairs, but it'll stand.

Agree that Trump won't be the end of this Republic. People making that claim are just complete morons.

First, stop saying collusion. That's not a crime here (that's more like Verizon and Sprint trying to set prices or something.). It's conspiracy. Words are important and let's use them correctly.

Second, I agree that the goal posts were moved but I never for one moment thought the MUELLER investigation was about impeachment. Sure, the underlying motive behind anything the Democrats have done are to that effect. But I don't think the Trump Administrations own investigation had impeachment in mind.

Third, AZ is incorrect, the Steele Dossier wasn't the catalyst. Multiple investigations, including one by the Republican House has said as such.

Fourth, I don't see the Republicans putting country before party and impeaching any Republican President. For the record, I feel the same about the Democrats. They won't hand over that sort of victory to the opposition. I'm extremely jaded so take that for what it's worth.

Fifth, who said anything about entrapment? I'm not following you there. I could've missed some posts, especially if it's something that came from SK.



Sixth, I appreciate the respectfulness of our back and forth on this. It's proof that 2 people, with varying opinions can have a civil discussion.

[Ibanez]

Nope, the goal from the get go was impeachment due to Russian Collusion. Then the goalposts moved and now they are looking at impeachment for obstruction since the Russian Collusion narrative was a total hoax (looking at you jellybelly). Which again, how do you obstruct entrapment?


Balls to impeach Trump over what? If there was proven Russian collusion then, like I said, there would be an overwhelming bipartisan effort to impeach Trump. The donks are now basically calling for impeachment because Orange Man Bad. It's why Pelosi has been smart enough to restrain from proceeding with impeachment up to this point.


The Papodapolus thing was a total set up by various intel agencies. Then as AZ pointed out there was the whole starting the investigation/spying off of a dossier, of whom the creator isn't talking to the Feds about. Why is that? This doesn't pass the smell test.


Agree that Trump won't be the end of this Republic. People making that claim are just complete morons.

Hey now. Don’t talk about my sisters that way.

Are they all libruls?