Toyota- No Longer Profitable In North America..

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Ooh... this is a nice one..!!!

A guy I know used to have that exact truck but he sold it. I still own a 1970 Chevy that is just like that one in the 1st pic but it has been at a buddies house in the Bitterroot for months cuz he's supposed to be putting in a new high performance 350 that I bought from a guy in NC a few years back. He told me his shop right by Dale Earnhardt's old shop and I think it was in NC anyway. The body is in good shape and it is the original Copper color so when I have the paint redone it's gonna stay that color but have some Silver & Gold in there somewhere to go with the old Griz colors.

[UNI88]

I've got 61k miles on my 2007 Fusion - all at 30mpg. Save for the rattle or two, it's a great car. Haven't even had to replace the stock Michelins yet, though that's coming with the next oil change. My grandfather owns the oldest continuously operating Ford dealership in NC, one of the oldest in the country, so my family drives Fords. My wife has a Honda Accord and that's a great car - but it also cost about $5k more than my Fusion, both similarly equipped.

Fords are the only cars for Cap'n Cat, though I would certainly buy any American made vehicle.

How do you define American made? Honda has plants in Indiana & Ohio. Toyota in Alabama, Indiana, Kentucky, Texas & West Virginia. Does the car have to be assembled in the U.S.A.? What percentage of parts should be manufactured in the U.S.A.?

[Appaholic]

Fords are the only cars for Cap'n Cat, though I would certainly buy any American made vehicle.

How do you define American made? Honda has plants in Indiana & Ohio. Toyota in Alabama, Indiana, Kentucky, Texas & West Virginia. Does the car have to be assembled in the U.S.A.? What percentage of parts should be manufactured in the U.S.A.?

Agree. Toyota's and Honda's are just as American as Ford & GM.....

Citdog in 5...4...3....2...

[clenz]

Fords are the only cars for Cap'n Cat, though I would certainly buy any American made vehicle.

How do you define American made? Honda has plants in Indiana & Ohio. Toyota in Alabama, Indiana, Kentucky, Texas & West Virginia. Does the car have to be assembled in the U.S.A.? What percentage of parts should be manufactured in the U.S.A.?

American made and foreign made today are basically the same thing, only difference being where the main plant/headquarters is located. No car is purely 100% American or foreign.

[Appaholic]

My next vehicle will be a Ford Fusion or F250 diesel...partially bought with money from Ford stock purchased at end of last year...Ford's got their act together...

[Wedgebuster]

citdoggy can come in here and lick my man taint. At the time I bought my '04 Tundra Double Cab, not only was it made in the US, but It also contained a higher percentage of American made parts than Ford, GM, or Dodge pickups.

Old lady's Camry is a Kentucky car.

[Appaholic]

citdoggy can come in here and lick my man taint. At the time I bought my '04 Tundra Double Cab, not only was it made in the US, but It also contained a higher percentage of American made parts than Ford, GM, or Dodge pickups.

Old lady's Camry is a Kentucky car.

Agree....my mean green Honda Civic just clicked 219k and still going...getting ready to invest about $700 (timing belt, serpentine, water pump & brakes)to hopefully break the 300k mark in 2 years...

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

citdoggy can come in here and lick my man taint. At the time I bought my '04 Tundra Double Cab, not only was it made in the US, but It also contained a higher percentage of American made parts than Ford, GM, or Dodge pickups.

Old lady's Camry is a Kentucky car.

Agree....my mean green Honda Civic just clicked 219k and still going...getting ready to invest about $700 (timing belt, serpentine, water pump & brakes)to hopefully break the 300k mark in 2 years...

Impressive but I've got a 1994 Chevy Truck HD that has close to 300k right now with no rebuild and it has spent it's life married to a trailer either pulling a Ditch Witch or a watercraft in and out the water. I can't believe it's still running let alone working daily. I know it's gotta quit at some point but it doesn't even smoke yet. I think I must have gotten the "Christine" of trucks with that one.

[hank scorpio]

citdoggy can come in here and lick my man taint. At the time I bought my '04 Tundra Double Cab, not only was it made in the US, but It also contained a higher percentage of American made parts than Ford, GM, or Dodge pickups.

Old lady's Camry is a Kentucky car.

My 04 accord was 69% made in the USA.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I get 4 new trucks every 3 years, the next batch will be Toyotas.

[Cap'n Cat]

Fords are the only cars for Cap'n Cat, though I would certainly buy any American made vehicle.

How do you define American made? Honda has plants in Indiana & Ohio. Toyota in Alabama, Indiana, Kentucky, Texas & West Virginia. Does the car have to be assembled in the U.S.A.? What percentage of parts should be manufactured in the U.S.A.?

A vehichle's status as an American car is in the eye of the beholder, 88. If I think it's an American car, it's an American car.

Were looking for something else?

[clenz]

How do you define American made? Honda has plants in Indiana & Ohio. Toyota in Alabama, Indiana, Kentucky, Texas & West Virginia. Does the car have to be assembled in the U.S.A.? What percentage of parts should be manufactured in the U.S.A.?

A vehichle's status as an American car is in the eye of the beholder, 88. If I think it's an American car, it's an American car.

Were looking for something else?

So a car made in Kenya made of lion, tiger, and elephant shit by slaves from Khazakstan could be American if you think it is?

[Cap'n Cat]

A vehichle's status as an American car is in the eye of the beholder, 88. If I think it's an American car, it's an American car.

Were looking for something else?

So a car made in Kenya made of lion, tiger, and elephant shit by slaves from Khazakstan could be American if you think it is?

Closed circuit to clenz: And you wonder why you weren't in Cap'n Cat's 2009 Sharpest?

[UNI88]

How do you define American made? Honda has plants in Indiana & Ohio. Toyota in Alabama, Indiana, Kentucky, Texas & West Virginia. Does the car have to be assembled in the U.S.A.? What percentage of parts should be manufactured in the U.S.A.?

A vehichle's status as an American car is in the eye of the beholder, 88. If I think it's an American car, it's an American car.

Were looking for something else?

Just wanted your definition. IMO, there is a lot more to defining a car as "Amercian Made" than just GM vs. Toyota.

[Cap'n Cat]

A vehichle's status as an American car is in the eye of the beholder, 88. If I think it's an American car, it's an American car.

Were looking for something else?

Just wanted your definition. IMO, there is a lot more to defining a car as "Amercian Made" than just GM vs. Toyota.

Really? And, somehow, Cap'n Cat hasn't figured that out in 46 years on Earth?

[clenz]

So a car made in Kenya made of lion, tiger, and elephant shit by slaves from Khazakstan could be American if you think it is?

Closed circuit to clenz: And you wonder why you weren't in Cap'n Cat's 2009 Sharpest?

Honest question. If I think that car is American would it then be American?


What if someone else that it was German? Then what would it be?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Closed circuit to clenz: And you wonder why you weren't in Cap'n Cat's 2009 Sharpest?

Honest question. If I think that car is American would it then be American?


What if someone else that it was German? Then what would it be?

In those peoples minds it would be whatever they perceived it to be no matter what it's actual %'s of here or there are, which, I think was Capn's entire point.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

A vehichle's status as an American car is in the eye of the beholder, 88. If I think it's an American car, it's an American car.

Were looking for something else?

Just wanted your definition. IMO, there is a lot more to defining a car as "Amercian Made" than just GM vs. Toyota.

IMO there are no "american cars" there are "american" companies that get their parts from mexico and assemble them here and there are "japanese" companies that get their parts from japan and assemble them here... personally? I'll take the parts made by the japanese workers and assembled here. (my corolla is 100% union made, both in japan and assembled in california by uaw, and it's a great car)

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

And your union made Corolla would be half the price you paid for it if you were not paying for the UAW's healthcare.

[clenz]

And your union made Corolla would be half the price you paid for it if you were not paying for the UAW's healthcare.

http://www.instantrimshot.com/

[houndawg]

I'm thinking my next car will be a Ford Fusion, Ford Escape, or F-150

have heard positive comparisons in terms of quality for the last few years Fusion vs. Toyota Camry. that's high praise...

I drove an Escape for a summer - handles well, doesn't feel tippy, gets good mileage for an suv.

i've heard a lot about Ford vis-a-vis quality improving significantly... that's an obvious good thing.

The big three have been making good quality cars for a while; the problem is that all the customers who left when quality was down are happy with their Toyotas and don't see any reason to change back. Detroit is paying today for their piss poor management in the 60s and 70s and 80s.

[houndawg]

And your union made Corolla would be half the price you paid for it if you were not paying for the UAW's healthcare.

And you're way too young to remember that America had its highest standard of living ever back when those union workers were able to afford to put their kids through college.

[UNI88]

And your union made Corolla would be half the price you paid for it if you were not paying for the UAW's healthcare.

And you're way too young to remember that America had its highest standard of living ever back when those union workers were able to afford to put their kids through college.

Dawg, I don't mind paying the increased price due to a company providing healthcare if the quality of the product is good and the healthcare is reasonable. But what did the typical UAW worker pay for a deductible? What was their copay on an Rx? What percentage of premium for their coverage and their dependents coverage did they have to cover? I don't know the answers but I'd bet that it was far better than what your average employed American with healthcare. You throw the rising costs of a defined benefit pension plan on top of that and you can see one of the many reasons why American manufacturers were having trouble competing. The unions represented their workers well and got them great benefits but when those benefits started to damage the employers many of them didn't want to compromise in order to help their employers compete.

Should you pay those workers based on 1) the goal that they be middle class and can afford to put their kids through college or 2) the skill, experience and intelligence that the job requires? If automation has made the job less demanding shouldn't they be paid less and those that want to be paid more should look for careers in other fields? Conversely, if automation has made the job more demanding for the fewer number of people who are required than they should be paid accordingly.

[CID1990]

Toyota needs to just get some Federal government accountants to come in and do some voodoo math and VOILA they will be profitable again. I would suggest the same accountants that came up with the cost-reducing health care plan.

BTW- Toyota might not be profitable, but try finding a new 2009 4-Runner right now. They literally ran out of them a month ago. They have customers galore but no vehicles to sell.

[houndawg]

And you're way too young to remember that America had its highest standard of living ever back when those union workers were able to afford to put their kids through college.

Dawg, I don't mind paying the increased price due to a company providing healthcare if the quality of the product is good and the healthcare is reasonable. But what did the typical UAW worker pay for a deductible? What was their copay on an Rx? What percentage of premium for their coverage and their dependents coverage did they have to cover? I don't know the answers but I'd bet that it was far better than what your average employed American with healthcare. You throw the rising costs of a defined benefit pension plan on top of that and you can see one of the many reasons why American manufacturers were having trouble competing. The unions represented their workers well and got them great benefits but when those benefits started to damage the employers many of them didn't want to compromise in order to help their employers compete.

Should you pay those workers based on 1) the goal that they be middle class and can afford to put their kids through college or 2) the skill, experience and intelligence that the job requires? If automation has made the job less demanding shouldn't they be paid less and those that want to be paid more should look for careers in other fields? Conversely, if automation has made the job more demanding for the fewer number of people who are required than they should be paid accordingly.

88, you're missing a couple of points here:

1) How would you feel watching the guys that demanded these givebacks (from contracts they negotiated) award themselves higher bonuses every year?

2) Detroit didn't fail because of the cost of workers, Detroit failed because they LOST MARKET SHARE BECAUSE OF POOR QUALITY; that was management's fault, solely and exclusively. American workers are the most productive in the world and Japanese-managed factories in the US prove it every year.

3) I didn't say that workers should be paid enough to afford college for their kids, I said that we had highest standard of living back when they could.

More and more people are too young to remember the Soviet Union and that's kind of a shame because back in the day when you could compare the two systems it was painfully obvious that the reason we lived so much better under our system was precisely because we had a comparituively well-off middle class, and it was a middle-class that was obtainable by poor folk if they were willing to work.